Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: What sort of outside effects and from whom could have happened to WG himself ?


Undergraduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 296
Date: Apr 22 11:02 PM, 2019
RE: What sort of outside effects and from whom could have happened to WG himself ?
Permalink  
 


I've always felt that war in general, and WWII in particular, must have profoundly affected WG, as it did many writers of his generation. It certainly influenced his first Poldark book. He wrote in Memoirs that his chance meeting with an RAF officer on a train during the war so affected him that he based Ross's character and appearance on the face-scarred pilot. When Demelza chided Ross about taking part in the Battle of Bussaco, I think Ross voiced that airman's sentiments exactly.

I also think WG's reading and research influenced him as he wrote the books--not just as background material but perhaps philosophically as well. Thomas Paine's Rights of Man made a lasting impression on Ross and is mentioned in several books. Caroline is excited about reading Pride and Prejudice and is delighted that it was written by a woman. I thought it was significant that WG had her, in particular, speak of the book because the testy start between herself and Dwight was reminiscent of Darcy and Elizabeth's rocky start. Caroline sometimes eloquently voices Elizabeth's insights about society and women in society.

 



__________________


Graduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 645
Date: Apr 22 9:15 PM, 2019
Permalink  
 

Mrs Gimlett wrote:

I think you have put your finger on his most important influence, Stella.  Moving to Cornwall at the age he did gave him freedom, perhaps in a way he would never have experienced  had the family remained in Manchester.  He relished the area, grew to know and like the locals, not easy for adults at that time - Cornish folk were wary of 'outsiders' - but to a teenage boy who could spend time and listen to their stories and soak up the special atmosphere that still exists in this neck of the woods to some extent, he was storing away for the future all those characters which he developed in the series.

His mother also indulged him by being able to support his first efforts.  Had he not the leisure to write without the need to earn, who knows what might have happened?  His talents may never have been released.  

We also have to remember, as Ross mentioned, his father dying when WG was young.  In those days, losing a parent was not so unusual and his upbringing was quite Victorian, given the ages of his parents.  Anyone who has seen the photo of young Winston in a pony cart can see it's from a former world, before the Great War, flight and other inventions we all take for granted.  Considering that, I have always thought he and Jean were enlightened parents always seizing on opportunities, travelling widely and having a wonderfully open happy relationship with their children. (Shades of R&D?) Perhaps that was Jean's influence.

That he seemed unaffected by his father's death, I think we have to remember that WGs book is of Memoirs and not an autobiography.  In the main he concentrates on the positive and the  relevant, so we don't learn how much that affected him.

 

 



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Monday 22nd of April 2019 10:38:43 AM


 Mrs Gimlett - I agree with all you say and would just add two things. Winston comes across to me, not just from the memoirs but also from 'Poldark's Cornwall' as a bit of a loner but perhaps all writers are to some extent because their work, by its nature, has to be done alone. I have in my mind the pictures of him walking his dog but never with Jean or anyone else. Perhaps Jean was there taking the photos. We know from Andrew Graham that he hated to be interrupted when he was writing.

One other aspect of WG's writing that I wonder about is that rape features in at least two of his books - Warleggan (although I don't agree that this was rape) and The Forgotten Story but I think there are others. I wonder about that and whether Winston knew anyone who had been raped and, if so, what impact it had on him. 



__________________


Honorary Life Member. Forum Moderator

Status: Offline
Posts: 895
Date: Apr 22 10:35 AM, 2019
Permalink  
 

I think you have put your finger on his most important influence, Stella.  Moving to Cornwall at the age he did gave him freedom, perhaps in a way he would never have experienced  had the family remained in Manchester.  He relished the area, grew to know and like the locals, not easy for adults at that time - Cornish folk were wary of 'outsiders' - but to a teenage boy who could spend time and listen to their stories and soak up the special atmosphere that still exists in this neck of the woods to some extent, he was storing away for the future all those characters which he developed in the series.

His mother also indulged him by being able to support his first efforts.  Had he not the leisure to write without the need to earn, who knows what might have happened?  His talents may never have been released.  

We also have to remember, as Ross mentioned, his father dying when WG was young.  In those days, losing a parent was not so unusual and his upbringing was quite Victorian, given the ages of his parents.  Anyone who has seen the photo of young Winston in a pony cart can see it's from a former world, before the Great War, flight and other inventions we all take for granted.  Considering that, I have always thought he and Jean were enlightened parents always seizing on opportunities, travelling widely and having a wonderfully open happy relationship with their children. (Shades of R&D?) Perhaps that was Jean's influence.

That he seemed unaffected by his father's death, I think we have to remember that WGs book is of Memoirs and not an autobiography.  In the main he concentrates on the positive and the  relevant, so we don't learn how much that affected him.

 

 



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Monday 22nd of April 2019 10:38:43 AM

__________________


Graduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 645
Date: Apr 20 7:25 PM, 2019
Permalink  
 

Ross Poldark wrote:

By outside effects I mean all of the positive and negative pressures, trials and difficulties that would have been common to any young boy, teenager from when he was born. There's a great deal of information about his early years for example his weak health, his father dying suddenly, his brother joining up, incidents he describes during his early school days and much more all of which might have produced the amazing writer he became. Or could it have been been that some incident might have suddenly released his true self ? I'm thinking of the famous woman writer early on in Perranporth who encouraged him and so on.

In much the same way that literary historians go in to many other world famous writers' beginnings around the world from Shakespeare through to Jane Austen and Hardy and so on. My feeling is that with all these three English writers in particular it was inborn just waiting for a chance incident or something to occur for it to suddenly blossom and that their youthful backgrounds would have made little if any difference. Perhaps some of them could have formed the background to some of the poldark characters and so on as with Ross' younger brother, perhaps even his mother herself.

There's a lot of material about his own life in his autobiography which I've often felt in its own individual way must surely have found its way into the books here and there, so I guess it's looking for parallels betwen the two....


 Thank you for clarifying. I shall have to go back to the memoirs as I cannot remember anything of relevance. Alas my short term memory is not good hmm What I do recall is that there was a distinctive lack of any description of WG's feelings about losing his father when he was young and of moving from Manchester to Cornwall. Perhaps he just got on with life as it was. I think his close relationship with his mother was the basis for his creating characters who stayed together whatever happened in the relationships and his happy marriage to Jean.



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Saturday 20th of April 2019 07:31:00 PM

__________________


Administration

Status: Offline
Posts: 1796
Date: Apr 20 5:52 PM, 2019
Permalink  
 

By outside effects I mean all of the positive and negative pressures, trials and difficulties that would have been common to any young boy, teenager from when he was born. There's a great deal of information about his early years for example his weak health, his father dying suddenly, his brother joining up, incidents he describes during his early school days and much more all of which might have produced the amazing writer he became. Or could it have been been that some incident might have suddenly released his true self ? I'm thinking of the famous woman writer early on in Perranporth who encouraged him and so on.

In much the same way that literary historians go in to many other world famous writers' beginnings around the world from Shakespeare through to Jane Austen and Hardy and so on. My feeling is that with all these three English writers in particular it was inborn just waiting for a chance incident or something to occur for it to suddenly blossom and that their youthful backgrounds would have made little if any difference. Perhaps some of them could have formed the background to some of the poldark characters and so on as with Ross' younger brother, perhaps even his mother herself.

There's a lot of material about his own life in his autobiography which I've often felt in its own individual way must surely have found its way into the books here and there, so I guess it's looking for parallels betwen the two....



__________________

"Perfection is a full stop .... Ever the climbing but never the attaining Of the mountain top." W.G.

 

 



Graduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 645
Date: Apr 20 4:31 PM, 2019
Permalink  
 

Ross Poldark wrote:

Looking at the relationship between WG and Catherine she immediately and very strongly reminded me of Cuby and Lady Harriet in particular as in the extract below which opens....

"Not long before my marriage, my intentions in going with Brian Hall to Paris was surprisingly innocent and not at all like the doctor's. I wanted to see the sights and was not specially interested in the seamier side of the city. The very first day I met a girl who was staying at the hotel; we shared the same sightseeing bus, and from then on ignored the ordinary tourist trips and went everywhere together. We went to restaurants, bistros, up the Eiffel Tower, along the Seine, to Montmartre and Montparnasse, and so the ballet language difficulties did not arise.

This, of course, was long before it was fashionable - indeed the done thing to travel the world in one's youth. Her name had an agreeably Elizabethan ring. Catherine Parr. She was travelling entirely alone and had so far been to Portugal, Spain, Italy and now France. She was an Australian, about my age, slim, elegant and adventurous, and she spoke no single word of any language but her own. She had sufficient confidence in her own not-negligible abilities to go where and get what she wanted. She was pretty and she simply smiled and pointed at whatever she wanted. After the second day together she smiled and pointed at me.

Three or four years after this, an elderly retired colonel whom I knew in Cornwall, and who himself knew Paris well, quizzed me about my first visit there, and incautiously I told him of my experiences I mentioned my Australian friend, and added: "I must remember to send her a Christmas card."

As he looked at me, a peculiar expression crossed his face which I found impossible to interpret. He looked surprised, even slightly shocked - or perhaps disappointed. I can only surmise such a reaction might come from the fact that he took the view of a first visit to Paris in the same light as my elderly doctor; eagerness to relish the glitter, glamour, the wickedness of the world's wickedest city. Of course he would have laughed had I told him of the doctor's fiasco - and told him as if it had happened to me. I had sliced out of bounds on the first hole could happen to any feller. But you didn't somehow go to Paris to indulge in an affair with an Australian girl, and, what was more, keep in touch with her after. Why, that could have happened in Huddersfield.

----------------------

Further details about his schooldays and meeting girls for the first time appear at the beginning of Chapter II....


Ross -  From this I would say that WG was a laid back, 'go with the flow' type person. My sense is that he would not have thought of reasons not to do something but rather reasons to do it. This suggests a positive man with a wish to experience as much as he could in life. Having said that, I must confess that I am not entirely sure what you are asking . What do you mean by 'outside effects'?



__________________


Administration

Status: Offline
Posts: 1796
Date: Apr 20 1:06 PM, 2019
Permalink  
 

Looking at the relationship between WG and Catherine she immediately and very strongly reminded me of Cuby and Lady Harriet in particular as in the extract below which opens....

"Not long before my marriage, my intentions in going with Brian Hall to Paris was surprisingly innocent and not at all like the doctor's. I wanted to see the sights and was not specially interested in the seamier side of the city. The very first day I met a girl who was staying at the hotel; we shared the same sightseeing bus, and from then on ignored the ordinary tourist trips and went everywhere together. We went to restaurants, bistros, up the Eiffel Tower, along the Seine, to Montmartre and Montparnasse, and so the ballet language difficulties did not arise.

This, of course, was long before it was fashionable - indeed the done thing to travel the world in one's youth. Her name had an agreeably Elizabethan ring. Catherine Parr. She was travelling entirely alone and had so far been to Portugal, Spain, Italy and now France. She was an Australian, about my age, slim, elegant and adventurous, and she spoke no single word of any language but her own. She had sufficient confidence in her own not-negligible abilities to go where and get what she wanted. She was pretty and she simply smiled and pointed at whatever she wanted. After the second day together she smiled and pointed at me.

Three or four years after this, an elderly retired colonel whom I knew in Cornwall, and who himself knew Paris well, quizzed me about my first visit there, and incautiously I told him of my experiences I mentioned my Australian friend, and added: "I must remember to send her a Christmas card."

As he looked at me, a peculiar expression crossed his face which I found impossible to interpret. He looked surprised, even slightly shocked - or perhaps disappointed. I can only surmise such a reaction might come from the fact that he took the view of a first visit to Paris in the same light as my elderly doctor; eagerness to relish the glitter, glamour, the wickedness of the world's wickedest city. Of course he would have laughed had I told him of the doctor's fiasco - and told him as if it had happened to me. I had sliced out of bounds on the first hole could happen to any feller. But you didn't somehow go to Paris to indulge in an affair with an Australian girl, and, what was more, keep in touch with her after. Why, that could have happened in Huddersfield.

----------------------

Further details about his schooldays and meeting girls for the first time appear at the beginning of Chapter II....



__________________

"Perfection is a full stop .... Ever the climbing but never the attaining Of the mountain top." W.G.

 

 



Administration

Status: Offline
Posts: 1796
Date: Apr 19 10:23 PM, 2019
Permalink  
 

What sort of effects and from whom do you think might have or have not affected WG from the outside world throughout his Poldark books ? And why....?

Starting with his autobiography and all other unassociated outside sources for myself out of 10 it must obviously be Jean his wife with his parents a very close second. However third I think in the outside world just has to be Catherine Parr - Memoirs Chapter 4 third/ fourth page in. An Australian girl on tour round Europe just before WWII who reveals startlingly new insights, unknown emotional depths and strong reactions from WG emphasising this even further by putting the most important words in italics...

What about the remaining 7...?



__________________

"Perfection is a full stop .... Ever the climbing but never the attaining Of the mountain top." W.G.

 

 

Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.