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Post Info TOPIC: Duel - whom/what was Ross really trying to fight?


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Date: Oct 13 11:12 AM, 2018
Duel - whom/what was Ross really trying to fight?
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Blackleburr wrote:
Dark Mare wrote:

I was teasing Blackleburr. 

 



Was the teasing to do with the hypothetical scenario about Lord Falmouth? That was impressive - I'm still at a loss how to respond. Perhaps let me just say that it fits with my reasoning that calling out Hugh was not an option for Ross at all.

As for the build up to the Adderley-Poldark duel, however - that first meeting the two of them had at Trenwith happened already after Hugh. And I think one of the reasons that meeting didn't go well was that Ross was then (perhaps not consciously) feeling at odds with the world, challenged by fate, because of Hugh. And his response was to accept that challenge - in whatever tangible form it manifested itself - and fight: against George in the election, against the vellow, against George's fences on the cliff path, against Monk.

I agree that Ross should have stormed the gates of Cusgarne and talked to Elizabeth - ring, or no ring. Incidentally, looking at the discussion about Jeremy and Cuby's relationship made me realize that Ross thought so, too - if only many years later.


 Yes.

I think Joan Chynoweth would have allowed Ross to see Elizabeth at Cusgarne to iron things out. She was marrying into his family, and Joan was counting on spending her golden years at Trenwith. Too much was riding on this wedding for her to rock the boat within the family before the ring was on Elizabeth's finger.

I also think that Ross would have been able to persuade Verity to set up a meeting somewhere between himself and Elizabeth if necessary to see her before the wedding. After all, Verity had no trouble asking Ross to do something more traitorous for her and Andrew, and Ross did it.



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Saturday 13th of October 2018 11:14:48 AM

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Mrs Gimlett wrote:
Elizabeth was needy; she wanted comfort, security and admiration.  At the beginning, Francis offered all that, but she spurned it when she realised she loved Ross and always would.  But did she really love Ross, or the idea of him?

 Still off-topic, but I think Elizabeth spurned Francis when she realised that marriage involved reciprocation. She wanted all the things you say, but was not willing to give back what Francis needed.



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The Poldarks second week was not as pleasant as the first. Demelza had told Ross of Adderleys visit, though she had glossed over the details. It was better that he should know from her than find out by accident and suppose she was deceiving him.

 The Angry Tide:(p. 417).Kindle Edition.

 

Demelza had not completely lost her senses. She was sensible enough to tell Ross of Monk's visit. Imagine if Ross heard from some third party, their landlady, it would have shattered Ross's fragile trust of Demelza to smithereens and probably never restored again. Too terrible to think about it.



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As usual Mrs. G. your thoughts on this are right on. However, let me interject how I would have felt about Monk. The flowers sent by him to Ross and Demelza's apartment that would be a big problem for me. I haven't gone back to read but weren't they sent to her specifically?   This would disturb me greatly if my intended wanted to keep them no matter what the reason. I know Demelza loved flowers but it shows how London threw a London fog over her usual common sense. It showed her approach in other things that week also.

Just to refresh your memory here is the excerpt from the book TAT

 . . . Ross, do not let this spoil our time here . . . No, he said, no, and put an arm about her shoulders, but one cannot always contain or order ones feelings, and when I see you in the company of another man being touched and pressed by him my mind or something in me turns up old feelings, old thoughts, old resentments. Which arent so very old.

 She lay against him, saying nothing for a long time, but not so sleepy now.

 A basket of flowers came next morning. Ross was for throwing it out, but Demelza could not tolerate this. Flowers to her were objects of interest and pleasure, no matter where they came from; and there were some in this bunch that she had never seen before.

 

. The Angry Tide:  (pp. 412-413). Kindle Edition.



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The problems with Ross rushing over to Cusgarne to plead with Elizabeth, or even to just talk to her could never have been implemented.  Even if he had thought about it, and it is not in  the books, it was unthinkable.

Firstly, although Elizabeth had been in his heart and thoughts throughout his time in America, he re-read her letters and detected a cooling off on her part, once he knew the true situation. In any case, Ross had nothing to offer her except a run down house, no income (although in the Prologue he has shares in Grambler mine) and no immediate prospects.  His affection for Francis also came into play. Great friends from childhood, his cousin had all the advantages of a wealthy upbringing, had travelled and become an eligible young man, healthy, wealthy and could offer all the material things Ross could not. She was being pressured by her parents too, because of their aversion to Ross. What possible gain would there have been in Ross trying to visit? He was already depressed about it but must have realised nothing would alter.

Elizabeth was needy; she wanted comfort, security and admiration.  At the beginning, Francis offered all that, but she spurned it when she realised she loved Ross and always would.  But did she really love Ross, or the idea of him?

I think Charles did everyone a favour.  His not too nimble brain cranked into action after his visit to Nampara to see his dying brother.  He was the one who put Francis and Elizabeth together and just in time too- that was why he was so anxious to bring forward the wedding date - to out smart Ross.

Contrary to what some have suggested, I don't think Ross and Elizabeth would have been at all well-suited. 

This has now gone off-topic so much I will stop except to say that Ross was not in favour of duelling.  At one point he thinks what an out-dated and pointless act it is.  That doesn't sound like someone who relished the idea, but neither could he refuse Monk Adderley because of his pride and sense of honour. Even though Ross was a man ahead of his time, he was still bound by the 'rules of his class', which sit at odds with all his other beliefs.  As has been said many times, Ross was a complicated man.



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Dark Mare wrote:

I was teasing Blackleburr. 



Was the teasing to do with the hypothetical scenario about Lord Falmouth? That was impressive - I'm still at a loss how to respond. Perhaps let me just say that it fits with my reasoning that calling out Hugh was not an option for Ross at all.

As for the build up to the Adderley-Poldark duel, however - that first meeting the two of them had at Trenwith happened already after Hugh. And I think one of the reasons that meeting didn't go well was that Ross was then (perhaps not consciously) feeling at odds with the world, challenged by fate, because of Hugh. And his response was to accept that challenge - in whatever tangible form it manifested itself - and fight: against George in the election, against the vellow, against George's fences on the cliff path, against Monk.

I agree that Ross should have stormed the gates of Cusgarne and talked to Elizabeth - ring, or no ring. Incidentally, looking at the discussion about Jeremy and Cuby's relationship made me realize that Ross thought so, too - if only many years later.

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Dark Mare wrote:

WG set the wheels in motion for an Adderley-Poldark duel long before Demelza even met Adderley. Ross and Monk's first meeting (in the garden at Trenwith) pointed things in that direction. Even though Ross didn't know of Adderley's "hobbies" (seducing married women and dueling) or that he had a head injury that presumably had affected his impulse control (Could "The ball had carried away part of the skull, and the silver plate put in when he was trepanned was thought by some to have affected his reason" mean anything else under these circumstances?), he must have sensed the man was going to be trouble. Why else would he have described his reaction to meeting the man to Demelza this way: 'But another man came on us when we had spoken a few words. I've forgotten the name Elizabeth gave him, but he made the back of my hair stand up.'? (Page 149, "The Angry Tide")

Adderley playfully insulted him when Elizabeth introduced them, and even though Adderley had suggested getting together in London once he found out Ross was the MP named Poldark he had heard about, Ross was sure Adderley had said something derisive about him to Elizabeth as she led him back to the house. His guard was up where this fellow was concerned.






-- Edited by Dark Mare on Wednesday 3rd of October 2018 11:34:20 AM


 Totally agree Dark Mare, Ross would have always had a problem with this man, Hugh or no Hugh.



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WG set the wheels in motion for an Adderley-Poldark duel long before Demelza even met Adderley. Ross and Monk's first meeting (in the garden at Trenwith) pointed things in that direction. Even though Ross didn't know of Adderley's "hobbies" (seducing married women and dueling) or that he had a head injury that presumably had affected his impulse control (Could "The ball had carried away part of the skull, and the silver plate put in when he was trepanned was thought by some to have affected his reason" mean anything else under these circumstances?), he must have sensed the man was going to be trouble. Why else would he have described his reaction to meeting the man to Demelza this way: 'But another man came on us when we had spoken a few words. I've forgotten the name Elizabeth gave him, but he made the back of my hair stand up.'? (Page 149, "The Angry Tide")

Adderley playfully insulted him when Elizabeth introduced them, and even though Adderley had suggested getting together in London once he found out Ross was the MP named Poldark he had heard about, Ross was sure Adderley had said something derisive about him to Elizabeth as she led him back to the house. His guard was up where this fellow was concerned.






-- Edited by Dark Mare on Wednesday 3rd of October 2018 11:34:20 AM

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Blackleburr wrote:

There is something that puzzles me in the storyline of Ross's duel with Monk Adderley:

The TV series puts on it the interpretation that Ross was really trying to fight Hugh Armitage. The books hint in the same direction, although somewhat less explicitly.

To me, however, this interpretation does not logically fit with the fact that at the same time Ross is bothered that Demelza might have only stayed with him because Hugh died, not out of choice: surely if Ross did kill Hugh in a duel, he would face exactly the same problem as when Hugh died of his illness?

Also, it doesn't seem likely that Ross would want to fight Hugh in order to somehow win Demelza back - judging by his behaviour right after he came back from America (when he didn't even try to visit/talk to Elizabeth), he wasn't one to "fight for his love".

So, I'm inclined to think that it must have been something else that Ross was trying to fight via Adderley. Maybe it was his own jealousy/distrust of Demelza? Or maybe he wanted to prove to himself that he still cared about her? Or, failing all else, perhaps he was simply acting out his frustration about Demelza's affair?

I'd be interested to hear what your thoughts are about this.

-- Edited by Blackleburr on Tuesday 11th of September 2018 07:23:53 PM

It's really interesting reading everyone's responses. Although Hugh may have frustrated Ross, I think I follow the school of thought that Ross took up the duel with Monk because he had been challenged to do so- he was never one to back away. 


 



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Rings were not generally given on engagements until much later.  Especially in poor areas, where even most of the gentry were on their uppers.  The exchange of rings or as a gift from man to woman was far more likely to be from a man to his mistress.  Then she would have flaunted it at appropriate times, so most would know who had given it.

 

Ross had never given Elizabeth one, or Demelza for that matter.  The only ring she wore was a plain wedding band, which would more than likely have been quite cheap, since they hadnt two beans between them.  So far as I can have been able to ascertain, wedding rings were not worn by men, but dandys and the Monk Adderleys of the world sported an ostentatious selection.



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Dark Mare wrote:

Thanks, Hollyhock, for reminding me about the ring. My local PBS affiliate is running all three seasons of "Poldark" to gin up interest in Season 4, and my mind was in TV mode when I was thinking about this. I reread the section of "Ross Poldark" to see whether there was any scene at all with Elizabeth in it between the engagement party and the wedding. There wasn't.

I still think he should have gone to see her in the days before the wedding and asked whether she had anything she had wanted to say to him that she hadn't felt comfortable saying that night. After all, she was marrying into his family so it wasn't like her wedding would be the end of their contact with each other. 


You're  welcome. After the engagement party, Mrs. Chynoweth took Elizabeth back to Cusgarne, the family seat.  I don't believe it would have ever entered Ross's mind to follow her there. Even if he had been so imprudent, I don't think the formidable Mrs. Chynoweth would have allowed him to speak to Elizabeth, certainly not alone. Besides, at the time, Elizabeth was delighted with her decision. She was a young girl swept up in the excitement of marrying the most eligible bachelor around, in what would be the grandest wedding of the day. I don't think she gave a thought to Ross until she saw him moping around at the wedding party. Elizabeth liked to hold sway over men and she didn't want to lose one of her most ardent admirers.  



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Thanks, Hollyhock, for reminding me about the ring. My local PBS affiliate is running all three seasons of "Poldark" to gin up interest in Season 4, and my mind was in TV mode when I was thinking about this. I reread the section of "Ross Poldark" to see whether there was any scene at all with Elizabeth in it between the engagement party and the wedding. There wasn't.

I still think he should have gone to see her in the days before the wedding and asked whether she had anything she had wanted to say to him that she hadn't felt comfortable saying that night. After all, she was marrying into his family so it wasn't like her wedding would be the end of their contact with each other. 



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Hollyhock - Yes you are right smile



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Dark Mare wrote:

...Do I think he should have gone to see her after he found out about the engagement? Absolutely. He had a ring that belonged to her, and he should have returned it. And she should have been given the chance to ask to be released from their understanding such as it was. Or to tell him she was willing to break her engagement to Francis. The way he behaved had to make her wonder whether he had lost interest in her and welcomed the escape.

_________________________________________________

Haven't read RP in a while but I believe all that drama over a ring was one of DH's tv inventions. In the book I don't recall Ross carrying around a ring from Elizabeth. Also, it was only in the tv version that Elizabeth ever gave any indication that she was waiting for Ross to storm the Trenwith gates and give her a chance to renounce her engagement. As she herself later told Ross (Warleggan), she thought she loved Francis better (than him). If anyone acted immature it was Elizabeth. As has often be said, the tv series gives views that differ from the book.

_______________________________________________________

My two cents on dueling: There was never a chance of Ross challenging Armitage to a duel over Demelza. He would not consider a duel a way to win a woman's heart. Either she loved him or she didn't, and if it took a duel to make up her mind then the woman wasn't worth it. (Hugh probably would not have faced Ross even if he had been challenged, being a weasel and all.) Likewise, it is unthinkable that Ross would have called his cousin Francis out over Elizabeth.  

Ross's own explanation for why he fought Monk also needs to be considered. Monk challenged him! Once that was done Ross felt he could not back down. No matter how much others --Demelza, Dwight, Caroline--might have remonstrated (so easy to dish out advice), the only way he could have avoided a fight with relentless Monk was to retreat to Cornwall. Retreat was not in Ross's character. He and Monk just brought out the antipathy in each other.  

__________________________________________________________________

Stella-just a point of clarification.  That conversation between Caroline and Ross happened in an inn over dinner and wine, not in the coach.



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Stella Poldark wrote:

Dark Mare - My understanding of my reading of all this is that it wasn't in Ross' mind to fight Hugh. He must have realised that he would risk losing Demelza were he to have done that, but there is no suggestion that he had any intention of fighting Hugh or of making it an issue publicly.



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Monday 17th of September 2018 01:44:02 PM


I realize that. I was teasing Blackleburr. 



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Dark Mare wrote:
Blackleburr wrote:

There is something that puzzles me in the storyline of Ross's duel with Monk Adderley:

The TV series puts on it the interpretation that Ross was really trying to fight Hugh Armitage. The books hint in the same direction, although somewhat less explicitly.

To me, however, this interpretation does not logically fit with the fact that at the same time Ross is bothered that Demelza might have only stayed with him because Hugh died, not out of choice: surely if Ross did kill Hugh in a duel, he would face exactly the same problem as when Hugh died of his illness?

Also, it doesn't seem likely that Ross would want to fight Hugh in order to somehow win Demelza back - judging by his behaviour right after he came back from America (when he didn't even try to visit/talk to Elizabeth), he wasn't one to "fight for his love".

So, I'm inclined to think that it must have been something else that Ross was trying to fight via Adderley. Maybe it was his own jealousy/distrust of Demelza? Or maybe he wanted to prove to himself that he still cared about her? Or, failing all else, perhaps he was simply acting out his frustration about Demelza's affair?

I'd be interested to hear what your thoughts are about this.



-- Edited by Blackleburr on Tuesday 11th of September 2018 07:23:53 PM


 I'm late to the party, but may I chime in?

Two things popped into my mind:

1.) If Ross had killed Hugh in a duel, I suspect Lord Falmouth would have seen to it Ross was convicted of murder and hanged.  Gentlemanly customs be damned. Lord Falmouth loved Hugh too much to accept losing him that way. (He established that he believes in rules only when they go his way during his meeting with the Truro burgesses' representatives before George's first election. Bribery and extortion? It works for him.) 

2.) Ross' acceptance of Elizabeth's engagement to Francis was his attempt to act like the adult he believed -- or wanted to believe -- he had become during his years in America. He knew he had nothing to offer her and likely would not for several years and Francis could give her all a young woman saddled with mercenary parents could want to keep her mother off her back. He stepped aside to let her marry a man better able to provide her with the life he thought she deserved. But once the 'I do's were exchanged, he discovered he wasn't the adult he thought he was and showed Elizabeth that at the wedding reception and especially the day he came calling to see Uncle Charles. (The day after he rescued Demelza and needed a magistrate's advice.) Do I think he should have gone to see her after he found out about the engagement? Absolutely. He had a ring that belonged to her, and he should have returned it. And she should have been given the chance to ask to be released from their understanding such as it was. Or to tell him she was willing to break her engagement to Francis. The way he behaved had to make her wonder whether he had lost interest in her and welcomed the escape.


 Blackleburr - In the book it is Caroline that shares with Ross her perception that it was Hugh that Ross wanted to kill, and not Adderley. They have this discussion in the coach on the way back from Cornwall. Ross initially denies it but Caroline persists (if my memory is accurate) and eventually Ross agrees it is a possibility but clearly not something Ross was aware of at the time of the duel or even after. So Ross was unconsciously displacing his hatred of Hugh onto Adderley which would explain his determination to fight Adderley even though he was no threat to Ross in terms of Demelza. 

Dark Mare - My understanding of my reading of all this is that it wasn't in Ross' mind to fight Hugh. He must have realised that he would risk losing Demelza were he to have done that, but there is no suggestion that he had any intention of fighting Hugh or of making it an issue publicly.



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Monday 17th of September 2018 01:44:02 PM

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Blackleburr wrote:

There is something that puzzles me in the storyline of Ross's duel with Monk Adderley:

The TV series puts on it the interpretation that Ross was really trying to fight Hugh Armitage. The books hint in the same direction, although somewhat less explicitly.

To me, however, this interpretation does not logically fit with the fact that at the same time Ross is bothered that Demelza might have only stayed with him because Hugh died, not out of choice: surely if Ross did kill Hugh in a duel, he would face exactly the same problem as when Hugh died of his illness?

Also, it doesn't seem likely that Ross would want to fight Hugh in order to somehow win Demelza back - judging by his behaviour right after he came back from America (when he didn't even try to visit/talk to Elizabeth), he wasn't one to "fight for his love".

So, I'm inclined to think that it must have been something else that Ross was trying to fight via Adderley. Maybe it was his own jealousy/distrust of Demelza? Or maybe he wanted to prove to himself that he still cared about her? Or, failing all else, perhaps he was simply acting out his frustration about Demelza's affair?

I'd be interested to hear what your thoughts are about this.



-- Edited by Blackleburr on Tuesday 11th of September 2018 07:23:53 PM


 I'm late to the party, but may I chime in?

Two things popped into my mind:

1.) If Ross had killed Hugh in a duel, I suspect Lord Falmouth would have seen to it Ross was convicted of murder and hanged.  Gentlemanly customs be damned. Lord Falmouth loved Hugh too much to accept losing him that way. (He established that he believes in rules only when they go his way during his meeting with the Truro burgesses' representatives before George's first election. Bribery and extortion? It works for him.) 

2.) Ross' acceptance of Elizabeth's engagement to Francis was his attempt to act like the adult he believed -- or wanted to believe -- he had become during his years in America. He knew he had nothing to offer her and likely would not for several years and Francis could give her all a young woman saddled with mercenary parents could want to keep her mother off her back. He stepped aside to let her marry a man better able to provide her with the life he thought she deserved. But once the 'I do's were exchanged, he discovered he wasn't the adult he thought he was and showed Elizabeth that at the wedding reception and especially the day he came calling to see Uncle Charles. (The day after he rescued Demelza and needed a magistrate's advice.) Do I think he should have gone to see her after he found out about the engagement? Absolutely. He had a ring that belonged to her, and he should have returned it. And she should have been given the chance to ask to be released from their understanding such as it was. Or to tell him she was willing to break her engagement to Francis. The way he behaved had to make her wonder whether he had lost interest in her and welcomed the escape.



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Thanks all for sharing your thoughts! It seems we are mostly in agreement that (1) the sense in which Ross was trying to fight Armitage when he accepted the challenge from Adderley was figurative rather than literal, and (2) Demelza was quite far away from her usual pluck when she faced with Adderley in London.

To answer some of your more detailed comments:

Stella - I agree that Ross's bond with Francis was much stronger than that with Hugh A. But still, there was some bond - unlike with Monk. However, the point I was really trying to make was that both in the case of Elizabeth with Francis, and Demelza with Hugh, Ross's feelings concentrated on being betrayed by the woman he loved (as Fijane pointed out). And in both cases he didn't want to make the woman come back - he wanted her to come back on her own.

Mrs Gimlett - I'm actually somewhat puzzled that WG never mentions Francis's duel with Blamey in the run up to Ross's one with Monk. Instead, we hear only about the duels he witnessed in America.

Fijane - you really put my own thoughts down, only nicer

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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

I am fairly sure Ross would never have seriously called anyone out.  He may have thought about it, he even expressed it once I seem to recall, but basically, after Monk in the Park, he was disgusted by the whole affair. He was vehemently against Francis and Blamey having a shoot-out and that was in his more rebellious days.

If Hugh had recovered in time and become an MP, which was the most likely result, he would have spent most of his time in London.  That would have suited Ross, to think 300 miles separated Hugh from his wife. 

Like Ross' disgust over duelling, Demelza was similarly disgusted with herself over her episode on that strip of sand.  In the event of Hugh not dying, I like to think she would have let him know she was never straying again, which would possibly have put an end to the friendship.  Certainly Ross would have wanted that, however much he owed to Hugh for navigating them across the channel. But would she have been able to end a friendship she valued.  I don't think she loved him; he just had a great attraction for her.

Whether the duel with Monk was taken up because of Hugh may have been in his sub-conscious.  However, he was very hurt by what he suspected about D & Hugh - he had no proof - and  human nature being what it is, to see D and Monk in that box at the theatre brought back all those emotions which were never far from the surface.   I have never understood why Demelza didn't tell Monk to politely stop.  She had no compunction about biting Captain MacNeill when she wanted to repel him.  Perhaps she was wary of upsetting someone who was an MP.  Maybe she was so engrossed in the play she didn't really notice. Perhaps Ross should have warned Adderley off - that would have satisfied everyone - but Ross was too eaten up with anger and jealousy to think of the obvious.

The duel and its aftermath were brilliantly written and of course indirectly led up to that classic line by Geoffrey Charles, which ultimately did for Elizabeth.  As always with WG these episodes are carefully thought out and slowly he pulls all the threads together creating a great tapestry.


 Mrs Gimlett - I, too have never understood why Demelza did not stand up to Adderley. As you say, she was quite capable of doing so but Adderley was more persistent than most. Demelza felt out of her depth in London and did not want to embarrass Ross yet no one noticed this. Caroline was aware of what was going on but apart from suggesting to Demelza that she shouldn't take him seriously, she offered no more help. I am surprised that Caroline didn't realise that Demelza felt out of her depth in London and failed to do more to help her. Demelza should not have been left alone at all once Adderley had clearly targeted her. The duel was inevitable once Demelza had refused his advances. 



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I am fairly sure Ross would never have seriously called anyone out.  He may have thought about it, he even expressed it once I seem to recall, but basically, after Monk in the Park, he was disgusted by the whole affair. He was vehemently against Francis and Blamey having a shoot-out and that was in his more rebellious days.

If Hugh had recovered in time and become an MP, which was the most likely result, he would have spent most of his time in London.  That would have suited Ross, to think 300 miles separated Hugh from his wife. 

Like Ross' disgust over duelling, Demelza was similarly disgusted with herself over her episode on that strip of sand.  In the event of Hugh not dying, I like to think she would have let him know she was never straying again, which would possibly have put an end to the friendship.  Certainly Ross would have wanted that, however much he owed to Hugh for navigating them across the channel. But would she have been able to end a friendship she valued.  I don't think she loved him; he just had a great attraction for her.

Whether the duel with Monk was taken up because of Hugh may have been in his sub-conscious.  However, he was very hurt by what he suspected about D & Hugh - he had no proof - and  human nature being what it is, to see D and Monk in that box at the theatre brought back all those emotions which were never far from the surface.   I have never understood why Demelza didn't tell Monk to politely stop.  She had no compunction about biting Captain MacNeill when she wanted to repel him.  Perhaps she was wary of upsetting someone who was an MP.  Maybe she was so engrossed in the play she didn't really notice. Perhaps Ross should have warned Adderley off - that would have satisfied everyone - but Ross was too eaten up with anger and jealousy to think of the obvious.

The duel and its aftermath were brilliantly written and of course indirectly led up to that classic line by Geoffrey Charles, which ultimately did for Elizabeth.  As always with WG these episodes are carefully thought out and slowly he pulls all the threads together creating a great tapestry.



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I see your reasoning here. Some of my thoughts:

1. Often people faced with jealousy don't react rationally. Clear-minded reflection might reveal that fighting Hugh (or Monk) wouldn't achieve anything, but I think Ross just needed to fight something or someone just to deal with his deep anger (or frustration, as you mention).

2. Duelling was not Ross's natural style of fight - he only did it because it was Monk's choice. If he had gone for Francis, it would have been Cornish-style wrestling. However, I think he was more focused on Elizabeth's treachery, and didn't really see Francis as having taken her away. More that she had betrayed him and given herself away.

3. What would have happened had Hugh lived (without illness or disability)? Demelza had already indicated the betrayal was a once-only, but could Ross continue to believe that long-term with Hugh nearby? I don't know. I can't see Ross calling Hugh out in some sort of formal fight, but he may have done something in the heat of the moment. Maybe Ross would have tried to remove Hugh from the vicinity, maybe persuade Lord Falmouth to put him elsewhere. Taking the premise even further back, if Hugh had been hale and hearty (not losing his sight etc) would Demelza have still been intimate with him? I would like to think (in Demelza's favour) that she was carried away by sympathy, but I am not convinced of that.

It really raises some interesting questions. Yes, I do think Ross reacted to Monk more aggressively than if Demelza's betrayal hadn't happened, he wasn't able to laugh it off like it was Hugh Bodrugan etc. But was he actually fighting Monk because he couldn't fight Hugh A? Yes, I think a little but not with any rational thought behind it.

 



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Date: Sep 12 12:30 AM, 2018
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Blackleburr wrote:

There is something that puzzles me in the storyline of Ross's duel with Monk Adderley:

The TV series puts on it the interpretation that Ross was really trying to fight Hugh Armitage. The books hint in the same direction, although somewhat less explicitly.

To me, however, this interpretation does not logically fit with the fact that at the same time Ross is bothered that Demelza might have only stayed with him because Hugh died, not out of choice: surely if Ross did kill Hugh in a duel, he would face exactly the same problem as when Hugh died of his illness?

Also, it doesn't seem likely that Ross would want to fight Hugh in order to somehow win Demelza back - judging by his behaviour right after he came back from America (when he didn't even try to visit/talk to Elizabeth), he wasn't one to "fight for his love".

So, I'm inclined to think that it must have been something else that Ross was trying to fight via Adderley. Maybe it was his own jealousy/distrust of Demelza? Or maybe he wanted to prove to himself that he still cared about her? Or, failing all else, perhaps he was simply acting out his frustration about Demelza's affair?

I'd be interested to hear what your thoughts are about this.



-- Edited by Blackleburr on Tuesday 11th of September 2018 07:23:53 PM


 Blackleburr - I have always thought that Caroline's take on this (i.e. that when Ross fought Adderley, it was Hugh he wanted to kill) made sense and Ross' reply was "Sometimes one doesn't think these things out". He goes on to say that "there may be some truth in it."

I'm not sure I can accept that Ross' decision to not fight for Elizabeth is helpful here. It was long ago and it involved his cousin, Francis. Caroline is very perceptive. She understands Demelza and Ross very well and knew that Demelza was not at all attracted to Adderley but was simply unsure of how she was expected to behave. As an aside, I think Demelza needed a lot more help and support from Ross and Caroline while in London than she received from either.

Welcome back! smile.gif



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Wednesday 12th of September 2018 12:31:18 AM



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Wednesday 12th of September 2018 12:31:59 AM

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Date: Sep 11 7:22 PM, 2018
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There is something that puzzles me in the storyline of Ross's duel with Monk Adderley:

The TV series puts on it the interpretation that Ross was really trying to fight Hugh Armitage. The books hint in the same direction, although somewhat less explicitly.

To me, however, this interpretation does not logically fit with the fact that at the same time Ross is bothered that Demelza might have only stayed with him because Hugh died, not out of choice: surely if Ross did kill Hugh in a duel, he would face exactly the same problem as when Hugh died of his illness?

Also, it doesn't seem likely that Ross would want to fight Hugh in order to somehow win Demelza back - judging by his behaviour right after he came back from America (when he didn't even try to visit/talk to Elizabeth), he wasn't one to "fight for his love".

So, I'm inclined to think that it must have been something else that Ross was trying to fight via Adderley. Maybe it was his own jealousy/distrust of Demelza? Or maybe he wanted to prove to himself that he still cared about her? Or, failing all else, perhaps he was simply acting out his frustration about Demelza's affair?

I'd be interested to hear what your thoughts are about this.



-- Edited by Blackleburr on Tuesday 11th of September 2018 07:23:53 PM

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