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Post Info TOPIC: Demelza's Chance to open up to Verity


Graduate

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Date: Sep 17 11:41 AM, 2018
Demelza's Chance to open up to Verity
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Except Verity's contact with Demelza that year consisted of:

  • The visit to Nampara with James Blamey  when she asked about a change in Elizabeth's circumstances,(Page 282, "Warleggan"), which was before Elizabeth had told anyone about the proposal. 
  • A letter from Demelza to Verity full of advice for the soon-to-be first-time mother referred to by Verity. 
  • Verity's September letter replying to Demelza's in which she describes the Warleggan wedding and says a mutual acquaintance said Joan Chynoweth told her Elizabeth is pregnant.
  • A visit to Falmouth for Andrew Blamey Jr.'s christening. Ross went for the day; Demelza stayed four days and really enjoyed herself (described below).

Page 389, "Warleggan"

She felt better then than she had done since May, and Veritys happiness was reflected in her. She was taken aboard Andrew Blameys ship and went a trip up the river and to a reception in the town. She said nothing at all of her own trouble to Verity. For the first time this was something she could not discuss even with her. In any case she could not say anything without telling of things which she hoped nobody but herself and Ross and Elizabeth would ever know. With George and Elizabeth now so close, it seemed more than ever important to be absolutely silent about the events of the ninth of May.



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Monday 17th of September 2018 11:42:52 AM

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Date: Sep 13 3:11 AM, 2018
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Dave, going back to your post of Aug 21, it seems that you may be saying that even though Verity wasn't told directly, it is likely that she would have guessed. Is that your ultimate conclusion?

 

I can see the argument for that. Basically, Verity is so knowledgable about both Ross and Demelza that she knows something momentous has happened, and her life knowledge (expanded from living in Falmouth) would present options in her mind, and she would probably end up somewhere close to the truth. I hadn't thought of that before.



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Date: Sep 11 6:47 AM, 2018
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Hollyhock wrote:

... (remember the likes of the muckraking Mrs. Choake) ...

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder how many people were ever actually paying attention to the loquacious and incomprehensible Mrs. Choake. Her collection of speech impediments had to make listening to her exhausting, and even the most delicious gossip likely lost some of its flavor when it had to be deciphered one syllable or even one letter at a time.

(Yes, I know, it is terrible to make fun of her, but ...)

 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Tuesday 11th of September 2018 06:49:06 AM

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Student

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Date: Aug 21 9:10 PM, 2018
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Dave--didn't mean to imply that Verity was naive. She may have been sheltered at Trenwith but not cloistered. Until Blamey, Charles and Francis pretty much ignored her as long as the household was running smoothly. Like Ross, Verity grew up with her feet in the worlds of both the miners and the gentry. She was quite active in the community through her charity and church activities; so she was familiar with village scandals. Likewise, she was familiar with the sexual intrigues of the gentry (remember the likes of the muckraking Mrs. Choake), and the Truro soirees were hotbeds of gossip. So, Verity was acquainted with all the varieties of "raw and lusty" life among both the miners and the gentry. Falmouth was probably more of the same, just on a larger scale. Verity would not have been consciously judgmental but her views about the sanctity of marital vows would not change, no matter where she was.

 



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Date: Aug 21 4:49 PM, 2018
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Hollyhock I liked your interpretation of Verity's character. Good thoughts and faithful to her.  My one correction might be this. We know Verity mostly by her time at Trenwith.  She led a very sheltered life there and of course was not out in the world very much and always under the watchful eye of Joshua and Francis.

 

Now she is a married woman living in a seaport town with its raw and lusty existence. I am sure this experience opened up her mind to a broader experience with life.  She hasn't changed her moral character but I believe she might be more understanding and forgiving. 



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Date: Aug 21 4:28 PM, 2018
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Demelza's chance to open up with Verity:

Stella and Fijane I liked your responses.  True, distance did play a big part in keeping their relationship from being so frank and intimate. Demelza was not a big letter writer which didn't help.  I could not find in this story where W.G. wrote of Verity and Demelza having a one on one conversation. I believe Stella was correct in writing there was no opportunity for one.  Of course, then I am thinking was it done purposely on Demelza's part, another teaser story thread by W.G.

As far as the May visit with Verity it was probably too soon after the Elizabeth and Ross incident where Demelza's feelings were still too raw, so she thought it would be better to hold her tongue and not say something she would later regret.

Now I want to discuss Fijane's comment on Verity's moral code that was an impediment for the discussion between Demelza and Verity.  Verity does have a good moral code but equally or more important she has wisdom that gives her a unique perspective on life and human circumstances living that life. She is very aware of her own marriage, how love gave her the courage to trust Capt Blamey, while everyone was against the marriage, some even very hostile to it.  Everyone except one. She'll remember.  She understands from her own experience that love with its companions trust and loyalty is a tremendous force that as we learn from these books overcomes many obstacles.

Getting back to her discussion with Ross, Verity has observed that he has a resentment, anger is too strong a word, towards, Demelza.  She even with her recent limited contact with Ross and Demelza knows that this is very unusual. Usually, it is the other way, Demelza's resentment is towards  Ross mostly due to his emotion-driven, impulsive behavior. Ross has always been very kind and understanding of Demelza's feelings so this attitude of Ross's was a big red flag to Verity.  As I said Verity is very smart and observant, she can put together one and one equals a couple. She would further understand the cause of this resentment has to be huge, likely a breach of trust, suggesting the possibility of some infidelity on Demelza's part. This thought might be another reason why she was wary of approaching Demelza, the embarrassment for Demelza, the embarrassment for herself.

Verity loves Ross and Demelza equally and well.  So what would Verity say to Demelza if she opens up her feelings to her? Verity would be counseled her like she did Ross when she told him this  Seeking perfection, Ross . . . in life its dangerous, for it makes the less than perfect seem less than enough. Time is not indefinite.  (p.202 TAT). Verity would change the wording and emphasis but the sentiment would be the same.  She knows  Demelza is still deeply in love with Ross and he is equally devoted to her. This love plus time will heal the wounds in both their hearts.

 

 



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Date: Aug 21 12:09 PM, 2018
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Interesting observations. I agree with Stella's assessment that Demelza probably didn't want to risk losing Verity's good opinion. Verity had gone against social conventions to champion and mentor her; Demelza knew that if she told Verity about her Hugh involvement, Verity's pride and respect in her would be jeopardized. WG created a lovely character in Verity, one who actually lived up to her name. She practiced the core values of church and society that others only preached. So, as a modest, religious lady she would have been shocked to learn of Demelza's behavior with Hugh Armitage--just as she would have been to learn of Ross's with Elizabeth. So, if either sought Verity's 'sympathy,' she or he would have been out of luck. Verity might forgive but not excuse infidelity. Demelza seems to come to this conclusion as she ruminates in the AT:

On her last visit Verity had seen that all was not well, but her questions had been too tactful and tentative to produce frank discussion. More than anything Demelza wanted a frank discussion; and Verity had such sympathy and understanding. Sometimes Demelza took out Hugh Armitage's poems and read them over. Had she inspired such passion? An educated young man, a lieutenant in the navy, who claimed he had known many women in his short life and loved only one ... Well, that was gone forever, and she did not want it back, with its pulling at her heartstrings, the agony of divided loyalties...

But she found she could not say anything of this to Verity. Verity knew nothing of Hugh Armitage; she had never met him and therefore would be unable to understand or even guess at his terrible attraction. Whatever her perception and sympathy, she could bring no understanding to this. Only Caroline knew and, Demelza thought, understood a little of what had happened (Collins, pp. 310-311).

 

 



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Date: Aug 18 1:13 AM, 2018
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Fijane wrote:

I was thinking the same, Stella, that Demelza probably perceived Verity's moral code as higher than Caroline's. Also, Caroline had observed more of the "warts" of Ross and Demelza's relationship, whereas Verity had been removed from most of the later circumstances.


 Fijane - you make a good point about Caroline's ability to observe something of what had existed between Demelza and Hugh. 



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Date: Aug 17 11:38 PM, 2018
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I was thinking the same, Stella, that Demelza probably perceived Verity's moral code as higher than Caroline's. Also, Caroline had observed more of the "warts" of Ross and Demelza's relationship, whereas Verity had been removed from most of the later circumstances.



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Date: Aug 17 1:31 PM, 2018
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Dave wrote:

And your own life with Demelza? He met Veritys eyes and then glanced down at the books he had been arranging.  What makes you ask?   My dear, for the usual reason, because I want to know.      Did you suppose there should be some special reason for the question?   Not unless you tell me so.     But we have often shared each others troubles and perplexities in the past.   So you think there is some trouble or perplexity?   Has Demelza said as much?   Of course not. She never would.   But I detect or fancy I detect some element of of strain. I think.

 

Graham, Winston. The Angry Tide: A Novel of Cornwall 1798-1799 (Poldark Book 7) (pp. 201-202)

This was Demelza's best chance to discuss with Verity her infatuation with Hugh. I wonder why Demelza has such a reluctance to discuss it?  Embarrassment, shame, not able to talk freely with her, inability to explain her feelings? Demelza had no problem with Caroline, maybe the distance between the two was a factor. Any ideas?

Of course the same could be said of Ross. He and Verity were close, "shared each other's troubles and perplexities"  Maybe because Demelza didn't discuss it with Verity so he wouldn't also. 

This is another mystery on why W.G. let the storyline develope this way. 


 Dave - I think Demelza would have considered Verity (as Ross' cousin) to be a confidant for Ross and not for her. Another reason might be that she would not want to risk Verity's good opinion of her. Verity is not a worldly woman compared to Caroline. There is also the practical reason of Caroline being nearer geographically and therefore able to provide a confidential setting for Demelza to talk. When Verity was visiting there were others around who might have overheard.

In Warleggan, after Ross had visited Elizabeth on the 9th May, Demelza visited Verity but said nothing about what had happened between Ross and Elizabeth.



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Friday 17th of August 2018 01:32:37 PM



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Friday 17th of August 2018 05:16:52 PM

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Student

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Date: Aug 17 1:05 AM, 2018
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And your own life with Demelza? He met Veritys eyes and then glanced down at the books he had been arranging.  What makes you ask?   My dear, for the usual reason, because I want to know.      Did you suppose there should be some special reason for the question?   Not unless you tell me so.     But we have often shared each others troubles and perplexities in the past.   So you think there is some trouble or perplexity?   Has Demelza said as much?   Of course not. She never would.   But I detect or fancy I detect some element of of strain. I think.

 

Graham, Winston. The Angry Tide: A Novel of Cornwall 1798-1799 (Poldark Book 7) (pp. 201-202)

This was Demelza's best chance to discuss with Verity her infatuation with Hugh. I wonder why Demelza has such a reluctance to discuss it?  Embarrassment, shame, not able to talk freely with her, inability to explain her feelings? Demelza had no problem with Caroline, maybe the distance between the two was a factor. Any ideas?

Of course the same could be said of Ross. He and Verity were close, "shared each other's troubles and perplexities"  Maybe because Demelza didn't discuss it with Verity so he wouldn't also. 

This is another mystery on why W.G. let the storyline develope this way. 



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