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Post Info TOPIC: Poldark, Series 4 Episodes 1 and 2


Graduate

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Date: Jun 24 2:38 PM, 2018
RE: Poldark, Series 4 Episodes 1 and 2
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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Having vowed not to watch series 4 because I was so disappointed with what had gone before, I actually did see episode 2.  A house guest wanted to see it, meaning I had little choice.

Oh dear.  The election - women would not have been allowed into the Council chamber - and there should have been two other candidates.  One reason for the details of the election in the books was to highlight the discrepancy of the electoral system; Truro, a town of a couple thousand returning 4 members of Parliament.  Cornwall had 44 members, all put up by ambitious men who wanted the position for what it could bring them.  Ross was quite right about it being an outdated and dishonest system. 

How come Demelza knew all about it? 

If DH is aware of adverse comments about series 3, it is a pity she has chosen to ignore them and continues to write completely different storylines.

Today the TV will remain off.

In reply to Mini about the Gimletts.  Being new to the Forum, you may not know that I take every opportunity to highlight the Gimletts!  I know their omission will be because of budgets, but actually, Prudie, with Jud, could easily have been written out and replaced by John and Jane.  She adds no comedic value without Jud,  as the 

How can Ross even consider going to Westminster, without a male figure safeguarding his property and family?

Talking of budgets, it seems a phantom son of Zacky Martin was introduced for no particular reason. 

Just for good measure, another gripe of mine is lack of respect of station.  In the 18th century, Ross would have been called either Mr Ross, Captain Poldark or similar by everyone but friends of his own class. 

I will go back in my box now...

Mrs G

 


 Mrs G

While I cannot disagree with all you say, I know that the budget is extremely tight and there are fewer episodes now - only 8. I never thought I would be defending Debbie Horsfield but she is under huge pressure to get high viewing figures. You know from my past posts how critical I have been of these productions but I am enjoying this series - yes really, even with its additions and subtractions and so many things wrong. I have the books and I know I can always pick one up and get the real Poldark story so now I can enjoy the production for what it is.



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Date: Jun 24 10:36 AM, 2018
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Having vowed not to watch series 4 because I was so disappointed with what had gone before, I actually did see episode 2.  A house guest wanted to see it, meaning I had little choice.

Oh dear.  The election - women would not have been allowed into the Council chamber - and there should have been two other candidates.  One reason for the details of the election in the books was to highlight the discrepancy of the electoral system; Truro, a town of a couple thousand returning 4 members of Parliament.  Cornwall had 44 members, all put up by ambitious men who wanted the position for what it could bring them.  Ross was quite right about it being an outdated and dishonest system. 

How come Demelza knew all about it? 

If DH is aware of adverse comments about series 3, it is a pity she has chosen to ignore them and continues to write completely different storylines.

Today the TV will remain off.

In reply to Mini about the Gimletts.  Being new to the Forum, you may not know that I take every opportunity to highlight the Gimletts!  I know their omission will be because of budgets, but actually, Prudie, with Jud, could easily have been written out and replaced by John and Jane.  She adds no comedic value without Jud,  as the 

How can Ross even consider going to Westminster, without a male figure safeguarding his property and family?

Talking of budgets, it seems a phantom son of Zacky Martin was introduced for no particular reason. 

Just for good measure, another gripe of mine is lack of respect of station.  In the 18th century, Ross would have been called either Mr Ross, Captain Poldark or similar by everyone but friends of his own class. 

I will go back in my box now...

Mrs G

 



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Date: Jun 23 11:46 PM, 2018
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Blackleburr wrote:

I'm probably not a disinterested party in this, having been brought to the books via the series and thus eternally in debt - but I don't necessarily agree that the best dialogue is always straight from the books. There are lines in the series that I absolutely love which I don't think came from WG. One of my favourites from episode 2 is Ross's "Because I could sleep, knowing you were not home".


 That was a great line. In general, I really liked Ep. 2. Ross and Demelza's conversation after Hugh's death and Ross's election had me in tears.

As for the loss of the Gimletts, I fear that's the way of adapted scripts - to conflate characters for whatever reason. (In this case, giving Demelza a sounding board/reflection/whatever. But I do agree about the miraculous way Nampara runs itself. I wish my home would do the same!

This is the first series which I've watched with knowledge of what is to come, so I find myself feeling sad about events which are presented in a happy light when book readers will know they won't turn out that way.



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Initiate

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Date: Jun 22 11:50 PM, 2018
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I love some of the series lines too but it demonstrates my love/hate relationship.  In Series 1 I loved Demelza saying "Then let it be true".  But I hope I never hear Demelza say again "Ross, will you never learn" and I thought Ross saying "Perhaps you should look elsewhere for a pet" was awful.  Some additional scenes in the Series I love too, such as the birth of Clowance.  There is a fun video out called "Poldark cast plays Debbie Horsfield or Winston Graham" where they guess who wrote what.



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Date: Jun 22 2:48 PM, 2018
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I'm probably not a disinterested party in this, having been brought to the books via the series and thus eternally in debt - but I don't necessarily agree that the best dialogue is always straight from the books. There are lines in the series that I absolutely love which I don't think came from WG. One of my favourites from episode 2 is Ross's "Because I could sleep, knowing you were not home".

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Date: Jun 22 9:09 AM, 2018
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Fijane

If DH had introduced John and Jane Gimlett all would have run smoothly in the Nampara household.  They knew their places.  By the time which has been reached in the series, Jud and Prudie were wallowing in their squat, with occasional visits from Demelza.  They had turned into a pathetic pair, dependent on charity for their very existence. 

The Gimletts were not in the original series and DH has seen fit to exclude them too.  Inexplicable...biggrin

Mrs Gimlett



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Date: Jun 20 11:58 PM, 2018
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Looking at the new thread about modern phrases etc reminded me of Prudie. It seems that by now we have to accept that the name "Prudie" has been given to an entirely new character dreamed up from DH's imagination. Nothing she does or says bears any resemblance to the book character. It is a bit like how they have changed storylines to give ET more prominence, they have now decided that Beattie Edney is popular and therefore needs more screentime.

These things grated on me:

1. Prudie wandering the house, while Demelza kneads her perennial piece of dough

2. Her being privy to the events between D and Hugh.

3. Prudie speaking directly to Baron de Dunstanville, or even being out of the kitchen when he was there.

4. Ross confiding in her about the brothers

5. The usual perceptive D being oblivious to P's obvious distress. Demelza would have known in an instant that something was up, and pretending she was too busy brooding over H was not believable.

6. P being left in charge of the children all the time

7. NOBODY actually doing any of the work in the house or the farm (apart from the never-baked dough). Ross doesn't even seem to have a hired farmhand anymore.

There, rant over. Like Dave, I have resigned myself to my addiction, but it is lovely to come here to vent the frustrations. Next episode, I promise to be positive.biggrin

 

PS I just went to the web to check Beatie Edney name and discovered that she is only 55! I thought she was in her seventies.



-- Edited by Fijane on Thursday 21st of June 2018 12:00:11 AM

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Administration

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Date: Jun 20 5:30 PM, 2018
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This makes for an interesting thread on its own so as it's going off topic could the existing relevant posts be reposted into the newly created sub forum titled "Old & Modern English Phrases & Expressions" now in Poldark Experts. Then when done the original posts can be removed....

Thanks



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Initiate

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Date: Jun 20 4:49 PM, 2018
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Thanks - I love looking up the meaning of words and I found a huge range of meanings for "having a moment". One says in the U.K. it means "to not be acting normally for a short time because you are not thinking about what you are doing or because you are feeling a strong emotion".  This fits the situation perfectly and describes very well the actions of several of WG characters as they go out of character for one "dire event".  I'm not sure I'll ever be able to use the phrase lightly again!

I know I will not stay away from the series so have accepted the "dramatic licences" as well as the lack of realism, i.e. the time and space element.  It seems like everything happens in one day in the series instead of over a period of time.



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Date: Jun 20 2:49 PM, 2018
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Little Henry wrote:

Remembering how Henshawe was killed off for dramatic effect, I wondered who would be killed in the riot/hanging scene and I thought it might be Zacky as he is, I believe, liked by all in the same way that Henshawe was.  I was horrified so was pleased that it was his son that suddenly appeared.  (Not that I wanted him to hang but you know what I mean).  Another thing I wonder at is why there are quite a few modernisms in the show.  Surely Demelza's "having a moment" is a modern phrase.


Little Henry,

I agree on the modernisms, but Winston Graham was guilty of the same thing in the books. I can't remember the sore-thumb example in the books off the top of my head, but it was an expression that didn't show up in the language until the end of the 19th century, having been inspired by something that had happened a few years earlier.

Then again, there are words and expressions in the books that seem much too modern to be period appropriate but are in fact from the 1600s or even earlier. One of the major dictionaries available online, I now forget which, includes a feature that traces the usage trends of words through the centuries. WG used a word that was a rather obscure synonym for a much more common word. I looked up its usage pattern and discovered that the word commonly used today was the one used in the Georgian era. It went out of fashion in the late 1800s and was all but replaced by WG's word, which rode high in the early 20th century before it then tailed off and was replaced by the earlier word. Can we really be sure that "having a moment" was in fact born yesterday and can't be traced back to some obscure Elizabethan play or Georgian-era essay? I was amazed to discover that the seemingly all-American saying "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." is in fact a rephrasing of an Italian adage whose translation started showing up in English essays in the late 18th century. 

 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Wednesday 20th of June 2018 02:51:05 PM

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Date: Jun 20 8:42 AM, 2018
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Thanks, everyone, for coming back to talk about Series 4. I know a few have decided not to persist with it.

Like Mini, I have only seen the first episode (also in Australia). I mostly agree with what you say. I didn't see a wonderful improvement in the writing, and once again the best dialogue was that which was lifted from the books. The rest felt over-dramatised.

In fact, the storylines all felt over-dramatised, as if DH believes that the viewers can't understand subtlety. It felt funny to launch straight into the miner's riot and to have it so central to the episode, when in the books it is more of a sideline, with its impact based on how it affected Sam (his friendship with John & Peter Hoskins) and Ross's disquiet about being forced to play policeman. Way back in the first book, Ross tries to plead for Jim Carter, and afterwards decides his failure is because he did not do the gentlemanly, behind-the-scenes, appeal to the inconvenience of losing his servant, ploy. So, it felt quite strange that he waited until the nooses were tied before he appealed to Sir John. Realistically, he would have been at Sir John's home at the first opportunity, pleading in private. But of course, this way was more dramatic. Jago seemed strange, as he was a completely new character who suddenly appeared, and it was difficult to feel for him. If it hadn't been for Zacky's performance, it would have been a non-event.

One scene I am looking forward to, is Morwenna's showdown with Ossie when she makes her threat (trying not to give spoilers). I hope they do that well.

Overall, though, I was relatively happy with this episode because I have decided that I can cope with storyline changes much better than I can with changing the character's personalities. Demelza was better this time, although there were missed opportunities where she could have spoken in the real Demelza way and instead just tried to show cow's eyes at Ross. I liked the conversations but would have liked more of WG's dialogue. I like her angst over Hugh, but don't feel any remorse coming from her. Others have pointed out in other threads that she doesn't show any in the books either, so maybe that is okay. She does seem to turn Ross's hurt against him, by constantly reminding him of Elizabeth.

I like that they are following the storyline of Demelza bringing the two Lords into a truce. Very true to the story, and important later on.

I am looking forward to next week.



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Date: Jun 19 7:04 PM, 2018
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Remembering how Henshawe was killed off for dramatic effect, I wondered who would be killed in the riot/hanging scene and I thought it might be Zacky as he is, I believe, liked by all in the same way that Henshawe was.  I was horrified so was pleased that it was his son that suddenly appeared.  (Not that I wanted him to hang but you know what I mean).  Another thing I wonder at is why there are quite a few modernisms in the show.  Surely Demelza's "having a moment" is a modern phrase.



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Graduate

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Date: Jun 19 4:40 AM, 2018
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Mini wrote:

 I thought the introduction of Jago Martin was dreadful. ... 

... However, it allowed - for me - the highlight of the episode to occur, and that was the wonderful performance by Tristan Sturrock as Zacky. He was brilliant, and the way he fell sobbing into Ross's arms felt utterly convincing. Their lifelong friendship was emphasised...

 


Mini, at first I thought the creation of Jago Martin was an attempt to save money by shifting the Hoskins brothers' thread to the Martins. When the Hoskins brothers later showed up as co-defendants, I was baffled. Until the execution scene. I totally agree about Tristan Sturrock's performance. (But I am not happy about Mrs. Zacky being killed off.)



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Date: Jun 19 2:48 AM, 2018
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Here in Australia we've just had Ep 1. I should say that I've only read the books once (after seeing Series 3, and time hasn't permitted another read yet) so I don't remember every nuance of the originals. However, here's my take on Ep. 1.

 

I thought the introduction of Jago Martin was dreadful. That whole sequence felt like DH (or whoever) felt the need to tick a number of boxes:

- add early drama to grab viewers

- give Ross a chance to be bold and wise in public and caring and protective to Demelza in private

- further reinforce his decision to stand for parliament

- show George in an even worse light (is that possible?)

and no doubt a few more. The sequence felt rushed and unconvincing. As a writer myself, I could feel the seams creaking. It was hamfisted writing, in my opinion.

However, it allowed - for me - the highlight of the episode to occur, and that was the wonderful performance by Tristan Sturrock as Zacky. He was brilliant, and the way he fell sobbing into Ross's arms felt utterly convincing. Their lifelong friendship was emphasised.

Other than that, I liked the delicate tiptoeing around each other by R & D, although it pretty much stayed in the same level throughout. A little more light and shade would have been better dramatically. I guess that's the writer in me saying that.

To sum up, I wasn't as absorbed as I'd hoped but I'll be watching next week for sure, and hoping it's not quite as awkward.

Oh, and the child playing Ross - oops - Valentine in that curly black wig doesn't leave too much room for doubt. I guess that with TV Elizabeth being a brunette rather than the original blonde they can excuse the black hair.

 



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Date: Jun 18 7:18 PM, 2018
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I think it would be a good idea to post about the new series on this thread - it will keep things uniform with what has gone before.

 



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