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Post Info TOPIC: Poldark Series 4


Graduate

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Date: Oct 13 11:47 AM, 2018
RE: Poldark Series 4
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Dave wrote:

Stella, I did view the PBS shorten version and I found that the scene where Demelza and Drake are questioning Emma about her feelings and her ability to go with Sam was cut out. It is about one minute long so I don't know where the other cuts would be. It is a shame because that was one of my favorites scenes in this Episode 2. As I have posted elsewhere that story about their relationship was one of my favorites. It is too bad the film, due to time constraints, couldn't develop it more thoroughly. It must have left many viewers scratching their heads wondering what that was all about. 


 Dave -- If you buy the season pass on iTunes ($19.99/HD; $14.99/SD), you get the BBC version of the series. Episodes are released on the day they air on PBS.

Oh and if your PBS membership includes PBS Passport ($5/mo or $60/yr and higher memberships), you can both watch the PBS version and order the iTunes version on the PBS app. That way, you can identify what has been cut out of the PBS version.



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Date: Oct 11 11:25 AM, 2018
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Fijane wrote:
Dave wrote:
One more thing about Demelza'a performance since  I am in this mood. I felt she could have dialed back the weepiness a wee bit although I liked the weepy Demelza a wee bit more than the carping bitchy Demelza in Season 3.  In that scene with her and Ross on the settee after she told him how she felt about Hugh the Seducer, the dialogue to me got out of hand. Can Ross bring about "World Peace" Demelza seems to ask, this was silly and awkward in my mind.  I can't rightly explain why it bothered me. Maybe I am peeved that D.H. didn't use W.G. words. Can you "save some tears for me" was butchered and when Demelza was explaining to Ross about her heart, that although Hugh the Seducer had entered a small piece of it Ross "owned it" was not used. In the books this was really great dialogue by W.G.  If D.H. could not have done better she should have used W.G.'s words.  Was D.H. doing an Austen irony? I am thinking what Ross could have said was "Hey gal! What do you think I was doing these past few episodes. You would have noticed if you weren't getting love poems surreptitiously from Hugh The Seducer and playing kissy-face with him in the dunes". No, instead Ross was the being a dutiful husband and murmured " I'll try".  I guess you might think me too cynical here and you may be right. I still like the film and love the books so I will still keep watchin' and readin'.



-- Edited by Dave on Tuesday 9th of October 2018 04:53:54 PM


Dave, I believe that I commented on that "settee" scene in the discussion about the episode. It was just the latest of a long line of scenes where DH cut out the crucial last line, for reasons known only to herself. "Save some tears for me...for I believe I need them" is close to the top of my list of best lines in all the books, and to see it omitted at the end of a slightly mangled important scene was very sad.

If you jump over to the episode discussion thread, you might enjoy the viewpoints there on this specific one.


 Fijane - I recall that Ross' words "save some for me" referring to Demelza's tears, were spoken right at the end of The Angry Tide'. In series 4 they come earlier than that and are lost in the focus on Demelza. It is another one of DH's really bad mistakes.



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Date: Oct 11 7:33 AM, 2018
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Dave wrote:
One more thing about Demelza'a performance since  I am in this mood. I felt she could have dialed back the weepiness a wee bit although I liked the weepy Demelza a wee bit more than the carping bitchy Demelza in Season 3.  In that scene with her and Ross on the settee after she told him how she felt about Hugh the Seducer, the dialogue to me got out of hand. Can Ross bring about "World Peace" Demelza seems to ask, this was silly and awkward in my mind.  I can't rightly explain why it bothered me. Maybe I am peeved that D.H. didn't use W.G. words. Can you "save some tears for me" was butchered and when Demelza was explaining to Ross about her heart, that although Hugh the Seducer had entered a small piece of it Ross "owned it" was not used. In the books this was really great dialogue by W.G.  If D.H. could not have done better she should have used W.G.'s words.  Was D.H. doing an Austen irony? I am thinking what Ross could have said was "Hey gal! What do you think I was doing these past few episodes. You would have noticed if you weren't getting love poems surreptitiously from Hugh The Seducer and playing kissy-face with him in the dunes". No, instead Ross was the being a dutiful husband and murmured " I'll try".  I guess you might think me too cynical here and you may be right. I still like the film and love the books so I will still keep watchin' and readin'.



-- Edited by Dave on Tuesday 9th of October 2018 04:53:54 PM


Dave, I believe that I commented on that "settee" scene in the discussion about the episode. It was just the latest of a long line of scenes where DH cut out the crucial last line, for reasons known only to herself. "Save some tears for me...for I believe I need them" is close to the top of my list of best lines in all the books, and to see it omitted at the end of a slightly mangled important scene was very sad.

If you jump over to the episode discussion thread, you might enjoy the viewpoints there on this specific one.



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Date: Oct 10 4:52 PM, 2018
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Dave wrote:

Stella, I did view the PBS shorten version and I found that the scene where Demelza and Drake are questioning Emma about her feelings and her ability to go with Sam was cut out. It is about one minute long so I don't know where the other cuts would be. It is a shame because that was one of my favorites scenes in this Episode 2. As I have posted elsewhere that story about their relationship was one of my favorites. It is too bad the film, due to time constraints, couldn't develop it more thoroughly. It must have left many viewers scratching their heads wondering what that was all about. 


 Unfortunately I don't have details of all the cuts. They have been identified on some of the Poldark groups on Facebook. My only suggestion for overcoming this is to buy the DVD and for the remaining episodes of series 4 and series 5 to watch it via VPN when it airs in the UK.



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Wednesday 10th of October 2018 04:54:11 PM

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Date: Oct 10 3:25 PM, 2018
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Stella, I did view the PBS shorten version and I found that the scene where Demelza and Drake are questioning Emma about her feelings and her ability to go with Sam was cut out. It is about one minute long so I don't know where the other cuts would be. It is a shame because that was one of my favorites scenes in this Episode 2. As I have posted elsewhere that story about their relationship was one of my favorites. It is too bad the film, due to time constraints, couldn't develop it more thoroughly. It must have left many viewers scratching their heads wondering what that was all about. 



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Date: Oct 9 5:06 PM, 2018
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Dave wrote:

Thanks for the hint, Stella. I can do that as a member of Amazon Prime and it can make a difference. What did you see that I may have missed in this episode scenes that  I mentioned?

I tell you what scene I did like was Demelza explaining to Emma what to do with her relationship with Sam. Pretty much as close to the book as I remember. 


 Dave - I didn't have anything specific in mind but as I have heard from several people about the shortening of each episode I thought you might want to know. If something appears not to flow it may be for this reason, although not necessarily with DH's scripts wink



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Date: Oct 9 5:03 PM, 2018
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Thanks for the hint, Stella. I can do that as a member of Amazon Prime and it can make a difference. What did you see that I may have missed in this episode scenes that  I mentioned?

I tell you what scene I did like was Demelza explaining to Emma what to do with her relationship with Sam. Pretty much as close to the book as I remember. 



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Date: Oct 9 4:58 PM, 2018
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Dave wrote:

This week we in the States got to view Season 4 Episode 2.  The scene where Elizabeth and George were leaving the wrestling match and passing by Tom Harry in all his blubbery bulling self, four sheets to the wind or getting there, they exchange words George and Tom about how well Tom did. All the while Elizabeth was giving George the "stare".  I found it quite amusing until George finally caught on and told Tom his services were not needed anymore. Elizabeth stare then became a slight satisfying smile. Priceless. Good work Heida. George it seems was rewarded by Elizabeth later that night in their bedroom. It still brings a smile to my face, neat scene the "stare" that is.

 

One more thing about Demelza'a performance since  I am in this mood. I felt she could have dialed back the weepiness a wee bit although I liked the weepy Demelza a wee bit more than the carping bitchy Demelza in Season 3.  In that scene with her and Ross on the settee after she told him how she felt about Hugh the Seducer, the dialogue to me got out of hand. Can Ross bring about "World Peace" Demelza seems to ask, this was silly and awkward in my mind.  I can't rightly explain why it bothered me. Maybe I am peeved that D.H. didn't use W.G. words. Can you "save some tears for me" was butchered and when Demelza was explaining to Ross about her heart, that although Hugh the Seducer had entered a small piece of it Ross "owned it" was not used. In the books this was really great dialogue by W.G.  If D.H. could not have done better she should have used W.G.'s words.  Was D.H. doing an Austen irony? I am thinking what Ross could have said was "Hey gal! What do you think I was doing these past few episodes. You would have noticed if you weren't getting love poems surreptitiously from Hugh The Seducer and playing kissy-face with him in the dunes". No, instead Ross was the being a dutiful husband and murmured " I'll try".  I guess you might think me too cynical here and you may be right. I still like the film and love the books so I will still keep watchin' and readin'.



-- Edited by Dave on Tuesday 9th of October 2018 04:53:54 PM


 Dave - I understand from others in the US that PBS cut about 7 minutes from each episode for adverts. There are ways of watching the UK version at the time of airing but you would need to ask around. I think it can be done using VPN. It might be worth getting the DVD when it becomes available.



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Date: Oct 9 4:50 PM, 2018
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This week we in the States got to view Season 4 Episode 2.  The scene where Elizabeth and George were leaving the wrestling match and passing by Tom Harry in all his blubbery bulling self, four sheets to the wind or getting there, they exchange words George and Tom about how well Tom did. All the while Elizabeth was giving George the "stare".  I found it quite amusing until George finally caught on and told Tom his services were not needed anymore. Elizabeth stare then became a slight satisfying smile. Priceless. Good work Heida. George it seems was rewarded by Elizabeth later that night in their bedroom. It still brings a smile to my face, neat scene the "stare" that is.

 

One more thing about Demelza'a performance since  I am in this mood. I felt she could have dialed back the weepiness a wee bit although I liked the weepy Demelza a wee bit more than the carping bitchy Demelza in Season 3.  In that scene with her and Ross on the settee after she told him how she felt about Hugh the Seducer, the dialogue to me got out of hand. Can Ross bring about "World Peace" Demelza seems to ask, this was silly and awkward in my mind.  I can't rightly explain why it bothered me. Maybe I am peeved that D.H. didn't use W.G. words. Can you "save some tears for me" was butchered and when Demelza was explaining to Ross about her heart, that although Hugh the Seducer had entered a small piece of it Ross "owned it" was not used. In the books this was really great dialogue by W.G.  If D.H. could not have done better she should have used W.G.'s words.  Was D.H. doing an Austen irony? I am thinking what Ross could have said was "Hey gal! What do you think I was doing these past few episodes. You would have noticed if you weren't getting love poems surreptitiously from Hugh The Seducer and playing kissy-face with him in the dunes". No, instead Ross was the being a dutiful husband and murmured " I'll try".  I guess you might think me too cynical here and you may be right. I still like the film and love the books so I will still keep watchin' and readin'.



-- Edited by Dave on Tuesday 9th of October 2018 04:53:54 PM

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Both. Basset deserved an explanation, but all he would care to know was what Lord Falmouth offered Ross that he had not that had made the difference between a "no" and a "yes." Falmouth gave Ross the chance to unmake the mistake he had made when he declined Basset's offer, which had enabled George to stand with Basset's support and therefore to win the seat. Basset did not need to know -- and probably would not even want to know -- that Ross was looking for time away from his marriage and Parliament was a less risky option than the army. (Although Basset must have noticed the partiality Falmouth's nephew, Hugh Armitage, had showed for Demelza when they both were at Tehidy so it might have crossed his mind that there could be a connection between Armitage's case of calf love and the election. But who would have sicced whom on who, he would have asked himself. Did Falmouth send his nephew to charm Demelza to soften her likely opposition to the idea of her husband spending half the year in London? Or did Poldark send his wife to persuade Armitage to use his influence with his uncle to get his support for a Poldark candidacy? Or is the young lieutenant simply besotted with a softhearted woman who does not know how to spurn the attentions of a younger man from a powerful family without hurting his feelings or, worse, offending him and his uncle?) 

Basset's primary concern was how much freedom Falmouth would give Ross to vote his own politics. Because of the situation Basset had created by supporting George in the previous election, Falmouth had to give Ross a much freer hand than he would give anyone else. Getting George out of the Truro seat was the most important thing to him ... and to Basset and to Ross. In this election the stars aligned to give Ross Poldark a seat in Parliament on his own terms, something that very rarely happens in politics. 

 



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Date: Jun 21 3:43 PM, 2018
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I am a little confused, a common situation for me, are you referring to the Series 4 TV or the book in regards to Ross actions. 



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Date: Jun 21 10:23 AM, 2018
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You're welcome.

I was a little disappointed in Ross on that one. How difficult would it have been to say he had been mistaken about George, expecting him to take service in Parliament more seriously than he has, and he now feels he owes it to Truro to try to get him out of the seat he (Ross) had put him in by declining to run?

 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Thursday 21st of June 2018 10:24:41 AM

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Date: Jun 20 11:43 PM, 2018
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Thanks, Dark Mare. I would have had to go search the books (I do have the kindle app but only use it for unimportant reading, stuff that is light and I won't read again probably).

The point I wanted to make, I think, was that to outsiders, Ross's decisions may have seemed inexplicable and out of character, but when we can see his thoughts, the reader gets the insight that the other characters don't get.



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Date: Jun 20 3:22 PM, 2018
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Fijane wrote:
Little Henry wrote:

Dave, in both the book and the series Ross is offered the Magistracy first and then secondly to run in the Truro By-election which was for a seat in Parliament.  It was then offered to George and he won and went to Parliament in London.  By the way, the series will go to the end of "The Angry Tide."


 There is a very important section somewhere (TFS maybe) where Ross mulls over why he said no first, and then later yes to the opposition. It goes something like "..how do you explain that one year you are happy and content in your life in Cornwall, and then the next all is changed, and nothing feels secure again..." When I have time I will look up the exact passage, but it is crucial to understanding Ross's thoughts and the resulting actions.


Kindle to the rescue. It's several paragraphs into the start of Chapter 12 of Book Two of "The Angry Tide" (Page 330 in the Kindle edition).


... Since then his relations with Basset had been noticeably cool. They had not been assisted either by his having turned down Bassets invitation to stand as his nominee for Parliament, and then, little more than a year later, accepted Viscount Falmouths nomination for precisely the same seat. It suggested, quite wrongly, that Ross did not care for the thought of having the newly created lord, de Dunstanville, as his patron and preferred the senior peer, Lord Falmouth. It might even suggest a personal antipathy. Which was not the case either. 
But Ross had gagged at the thought of trying to explain his own infinitely complicated motives to another man, especially one to whom such an explanation might look like an excuse and an apology. 
In any case, how could you state one of the principal ingredients, the simple fact that one year you were happy with your wife and contented in Cornwall; the next you were not? 

 
(How nice it must be to have money in your own name and someone to dump all your responsibilities on so you can run away to London when your marriage gets uncomfortable. It certainly beats Demelza's post-May 9th options.)





-- Edited by Dark Mare on Wednesday 20th of June 2018 03:30:13 PM

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Little Henry wrote:

Dave, in both the book and the series Ross is offered the Magistracy first and then secondly to run in the Truro By-election which was for a seat in Parliament.  It was then offered to George and he won and went to Parliament in London.  By the way, the series will go to the end of "The Angry Tide."


 There is a very important section somewhere (TFS maybe) where Ross mulls over why he said no first, and then later yes to the opposition. It goes something like "..how do you explain that one year you are happy and content in your life in Cornwall, and then the next all is changed, and nothing feels secure again..." When I have time I will look up the exact passage, but it is crucial to understanding Ross's thoughts and the resulting actions.



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Date: Jun 20 4:51 AM, 2018
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Yes, that is the way I remember it. Thanks for the response. I am going to reread The Angry Tide again. It is the one book I read only once.



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Apols copy and paste the link below about halfway down....

https://poldark.activeboard.com/f595350/the-new-bbc-poldark-film-series/



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Date: Jun 19 8:49 AM, 2018
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Ross Poldark wrote:

Future posts about Episodes 1 and 2 of Series 4 to go into the relevant sub forum....

Thanks


 I am not sure what you mean. 



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Future posts about Episodes 1 and 2 of Series 4 to go into the relevant sub forum....

Thanks



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Date: Jun 19 3:16 AM, 2018
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Dave, in both the book and the series Ross is offered the Magistracy first and then secondly to run in the Truro By-election which was for a seat in Parliament.  It was then offered to George and he won and went to Parliament in London.  By the way, the series will go to the end of "The Angry Tide."



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Date: Jun 18 10:10 PM, 2018
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If my memory is correct Demelza wanted him to be a Magistrate in Truroe which is nearby. Ross hated to be put in the position of passing judgement on people who he is familiar with and they who know him, his history and family. An MP in London some maybe 250 300 miles away a fortnight trip is another story, which I think Demelza was aware of that fact. However, knowing TV Land they may have changed the script to fit their story as I have not seen this series yet that could be the case. 



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I'm in Canada and watched it through tvcatchup.com but there was a glitch last night and it kept stopping and starting.  At last it sorted out and I saw most of it.  This episode was a perfect example of my love/hate of the series.  There were so many scenes and I would say loved that, hated that, that was clever, that was awful.  In my quest to understand DH's thinking and methods and accepting that tv has to be different I thought she wove in all the storylines very cleverly and some I figured out what her motive was.  I'm glad to see Ross being like in the books but am prepared for his regular change in character near the end of each series where he becomes less mature. This time, however, knowing what happens in London, it may make more sense than it did in Series 3.  I always wondered in Series 3 when Demelza is SO intent on Ross's becoming an MP whether anyone had told her that it would mean he would be away a lot.  And now in Series 4 it's as if she hadn't thought about it at all.  I hated the implication that Hugh died because he had to give up on Demelza - don't understand that addition at all.  I think it's all setting up though for Ross's "angry tide".  Love that the love is being shown between R and D despite the difficulties.



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Date: Jun 18 2:39 PM, 2018
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Dave wrote:

Hmmm, I am from the States so I haven't seen this Series. I wonder what you mean by Ross's maturity. I always thought he expressed himself very well in the book and the series. But I will withhold my judgement until I see the first episode. Do you think all the complaining about the last season had any effect on DH and ET who took a lot of heat about that Series? 

Watched a rerun of the Ross at Boudin last night. Still enjoyed it. 

One more question, in this 4th season what books will it cover? 


 Dave - I think you need to see series 4 to know what I mean about Ross' maturity although it comes through in the books towards the end of TFS and into TAT. Ross is a lot calmer and able to be in touch with his feelings more but also to to consider Demelza.

I think DH has made such a change in series 4 that perhaps she has heard about the criticisms of series 3. We are only 2 episodes in so far with 6 more to go but it's looking very good to me. Can you not watch it vis VPN?



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Date: Jun 18 1:06 PM, 2018
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Hmmm, I am from the States so I haven't seen this Series. I wonder what you mean by Ross's maturity. I always thought he expressed himself very well in the book and the series. But I will withhold my judgement until I see the first episode. Do you think all the complaining about the last season had any effect on DH and ET who took a lot of heat about that Series? 

Watched a rerun of the Ross at Boudin last night. Still enjoyed it. 

One more question, in this 4th season what books will it cover? 



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Date: Jun 17 8:11 PM, 2018
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Little Henry wrote:

I believe so.  Despite some quibbles I thoroughly enjoyed Episode 1.  A couple of small scenes I especially liked were:  Jeremy running into Ross' arms on the beach (I missed the presence of Jeremy in Ross's homecomings in the series).  Also, I liked seeing Demelza burning her love letter (I had always hoped she would do that eventually in the books).  I'm glad that Hugh was finally shown in a dimmer light but we'll see how that pans out tonight.  I thought I would hate all the drama with Drake and Sam being about to hang but in the end made for a good story and was glad Ross came to the rescue. 


 I agree with you Little Henry and would add that I loved the scenes where Ross and Demelza talked about their marriage. Ross, in particular, seems to have come to a maturity that is good to see and is able at last to express his feelings as he feels them. Demelza has a way to go yet in sorting out hers I think.



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I believe so.  Despite some quibbles I thoroughly enjoyed Episode 1.  A couple of small scenes I especially liked were:  Jeremy running into Ross' arms on the beach (I missed the presence of Jeremy in Ross's homecomings in the series).  Also, I liked seeing Demelza burning her love letter (I had always hoped she would do that eventually in the books).  I'm glad that Hugh was finally shown in a dimmer light but we'll see how that pans out tonight.  I thought I would hate all the drama with Drake and Sam being about to hang but in the end made for a good story and was glad Ross came to the rescue. 



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Date: Jun 14 12:46 PM, 2018
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Oh I so agree Mrs G.  I sometimes wonder when I look through these posts and watch the TV adaptations if we are reading the same books!

 



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I couldn't agree more with your post below, Moorland Rambler, especially the last sentence.

What we as readers have to remember about the books is that they range across nearly 40 years.  Of course the characters change.  Both Ross and Demelza grow up and their responsibilities ideas and remedies alter according to their stage in life.  Ross was just as concerned about poverty and justice in the later books (his disquiet about the Corn Laws when he was dispatched to Paris for instance) but he tackled the problems in more mature and measured (for him) ways.

Likewise, Demelza was still rooting for all her family and living on her high strung nerves as she had always done, but age mellowed her as it does almost every person, regardless of the age we live in.  She was just as passionate over her concerns about Bella/Clowance/Jeremy as she was the day she and Jud slipped off to Falmouth to seek out Cap'n Blamey.

Did having money in the bank change Ross?  I have yet to find anyone who can genuinely prove money has not changed them.  If you put yourself in Ross' position when he was acquitted at Bodmin, only to return home knowing he would be bankrupt within months and then fast forward to the discovery of Grace's tin hoard, who could help not being changed? No daily worry about how to feed the family; money to buy things for his wife, son and staff - it would be most unusual for there to be no change at all. Money worries have always skewed people's behaviour to a greater or lesser extent.  When they are removed, change occurs either for good or ill.

I have often thought those chapters written after May 9th until the conclusion of Warleggan are some of the most true to life in the entire series.  The agony, pain and impotence of R&Ds situation oozes off the page in a very natural way for those two characters, especially after the discovery of tin. They want to rejoice but as WG says, it was too late in coming and their reconciliation still far off. 

When at last they find the way through to each other, it is conveyed in exactly the right way; not with saccharine and pathos, but a humorous twist that breaks the tension.  I defy anyone engrossed in that book not to have a few tears when reading the final chapter.

 



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Dark Mare wrote:
Moorland Rambler, 
Pleasing the audience has to be a fundamental consideration for a television series because eight episodes cost the same to produce whether they end up drawing an audience of 800 or 8 million. Book publishing is different. If demand exceeds supply, the publisher can always print more. We both found changes to Demelza's character in the middle books that seemed implausible so is it difficult to imagine that Debbie Horsfield and Eleanor Tomlinson did as well?  As readers, we had to accept the implausibility, but as the people charged with moving the story from the page to the screen, they were able to do something about it. They could justify it to themselves as keeping Demelza true to herself even if they were doing it to please the viewers. 
As for changing Ross, I found him changed implausibly in the middle books as well. He just wasn't a good guy -- or even an especially smart one -- anymore. He had started losing me the first time at the second Christmas Eve at Trenwith. (After May 9th, he was dead to me, and the Christmas Eve reconciliation was too little too late.) But I decided at the start of "The Black Moon" that I had to give him a second chance because Demelza did. However, he started losing me again when he suggested that Demelza would not want him to hire her brothers because their presence would remind other people of her humble beginnings. When he told Demelza that, she said she'd just have to get over it. (I like to think she was telling him that he would have to get over it.) That was when I began to think money was going to change him in unpleasant ways. And it did. This was no longer the man who would stand up in court for a would-be poacher caught red-handed. There were so few glimmers of the old Ross that I can recall only one, his first speech in Parliament.
 

 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Monday 4th of June 2018 11:59:29 PM


It is interesting to note how well the audience share was maintained in the 1970's tv series without (in series 2 at least) misrepresenting any of the characters.  Despite the new show's ongoing popularity, it's ratings have reduced  over time. There may be a spike at the beginning of series 4 after almost every national newspaper in England (including The Times and the Daily Telegraph) put a large picture of a bare chested Ross on their front pages just a few days ago.

Times may change but quality never does. If it is acknowledged that WG's characters are of value and his writing is of quality then his characters should be promoted as they stand rather than turning them into mere shadows or caricatures of those in the books.

 

 



-- Edited by Moorland Rambler on Tuesday 5th of June 2018 11:47:58 AM



-- Edited by Moorland Rambler on Tuesday 5th of June 2018 11:48:52 AM

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Moorland Rambler, 
Pleasing the audience has to be a fundamental consideration for a television series because eight episodes cost the same to produce whether they end up drawing an audience of 800 or 8 million. Book publishing is different. If demand exceeds supply, the publisher can always print more. We both found changes to Demelza's character in the middle books that seemed implausible so is it difficult to imagine that Debbie Horsfield and Eleanor Tomlinson did as well?  As readers, we had to accept the implausibility, but as the people charged with moving the story from the page to the screen, they were able to do something about it. They could justify it to themselves as keeping Demelza true to herself even if they were doing it to please the viewers. 
As for changing Ross, I found him changed implausibly in the middle books as well. He just wasn't a good guy -- or even an especially smart one -- anymore. He had started losing me the first time at the second Christmas Eve at Trenwith. (After May 9th, he was dead to me, and the Christmas Eve reconciliation was too little too late.) But I decided at the start of "The Black Moon" that I had to give him a second chance because Demelza did. However, he started losing me again when he suggested that Demelza would not want him to hire her brothers because their presence would remind other people of her humble beginnings. When he told Demelza that, she said she'd just have to get over it. (I like to think she was telling him that he would have to get over it.) That was when I began to think money was going to change him in unpleasant ways. And it did. This was no longer the man who would stand up in court for a would-be poacher caught red-handed. There were so few glimmers of the old Ross that I can recall only one, his first speech in Parliament.
 

 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Monday 4th of June 2018 11:59:29 PM

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Dark Mare wrote:

She said "... he loves to wind me up ..." so I would guess AT provokes the arguments to get a rise out of her.

Yes, I'm sure she wants to raise her profile and advance her career, as she should if she is serious about having a career, but I think it is unfair to fault her for wanting Demelza to come off as a stronger woman. WG toned down Demelza's character after "Jeremy," and he never provided anything, no incident or significant conversation, to explain that change. Yes, Ross was pulling away from her and she was unhappy about it, but the Demelza who engineered an elopement; went to nurse people who had barred her from  their house; tricked a soldier, climbed out the bedroom window and crawled along the roofline and jumped off the roof to warn Ross about the soldier inside the house; or took a boat out when she was due to have a baby any minute to get fresh fish for supper was suddenly afraid to speak up or stand up for herself. Instead of confronting her husband and asking him why he was avoiding and neglecting her, she was telling his cousins he would rather be with Elizabeth than with her. Isn't that Elizabeth's tactic? Why the change in her personality? We don't know. I can't blame Eleanor Tomlinson for wanting to keep the strong character of the first three books. I think toning her down was a mistake too.

As for her speaking about pay disparity, good for her! Whoever first decreed that it is impolite to compare pay with co-workers must have been an employer who couldn't come up with legitimate reasons to explain pay disparities in his company. I am so glad that high-profile actresses are speaking out about this now. Women in less celebrated businesses need to know that if it happens in Hollywood, where actresses have agents to help them get paid fairly, it probably is happening in their own companies too. 


Dark Mare - My post about ET arguing with AT, or vice versa, was not a criticism of her, I posted it because I hadn't heard of them arguing about their characters before. I understand her wanting to get the most out of her role and also the TV company wanting to benefit from the talent and versatility she obviously possesses.

I too was disappointed when WG changed Demelza's character, introducing weaknesses that I never expected or could really believe. However, I had to accept that WG had moved her in a different direction, even if it was for the worse. In the TV series three, most of these weaknesses or changes were covered up or glossed over and in order to do this they had to change Ross' character as well. That meant that both characters' demeanours and many of their actions were different to the books. The dynamics between the couple should not be messed about with just for the sake of pleasing the audience.

Athough the spirit of Demelza is strong in every book right up to the twelfth, her contributions to the plots do lessen considerably (and much more so than Ross) as the saga continues. Will it mean that, in the TV series four and five, more situations will be invented or minor events expanded for Demelza so that she can maintain a lead role? All I want to see, as often as possible, is a Demelza who is faithful to the books' portrayal of her, without a distortion of her character. If it continues to be distorted it will inevitably distort the other characters around her.

 

 



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She said "... he loves to wind me up ..." so I would guess AT provokes the arguments to get a rise out of her.

Yes, I'm sure she wants to raise her profile and advance her career, as she should if she is serious about having a career, but I think it is unfair to fault her for wanting Demelza to come off as a stronger woman. WG toned down Demelza's character after "Jeremy," and he never provided anything, no incident or significant conversation, to explain that change. Yes, Ross was pulling away from her and she was unhappy about it, but the Demelza who engineered an elopement; went to nurse people who had barred her from  their house; tricked a soldier, climbed out the bedroom window and crawled along the roofline and jumped off the roof to warn Ross about the soldier inside the house; or took a boat out when she was due to have a baby any minute to get fresh fish for supper was suddenly afraid to speak up or stand up for herself. Instead of confronting her husband and asking him why he was avoiding and neglecting her, she was telling his cousins he would rather be with Elizabeth than with her. Isn't that Elizabeth's tactic? Why the change in her personality? We don't know. I can't blame Eleanor Tomlinson for wanting to keep the strong character of the first three books. I think toning her down was a mistake too.

As for her speaking about pay disparity, good for her! Whoever first decreed that it is impolite to compare pay with co-workers must have been an employer who couldn't come up with legitimate reasons to explain pay disparities in his company. I am so glad that high-profile actresses are speaking out about this now. Women in less celebrated businesses need to know that if it happens in Hollywood, where actresses have agents to help them get paid fairly, it probably is happening in their own companies too. 



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It seems that ET has been been revealing to Sky News that she often argues with AT about their characters. It comes in an interview she did about equal pay. (Link below)

https://news.sky.com/story/poldark-actress-eleanor-tomlinson-pretty-upset-to-be-paid-less-than-co-star-aidan-turner-11383563

Here is the extract from the interview:-

'Ahead of the fourth series of Poldark, Tomlinson said she and Turner - who play husband and wife on the show - are great friends "although we do row".

"(We row about) everything - usually our characters," she said.

"We're both ridiculously protective of them and squabble like an old married couple.

"Usually it's one of us saying that our character wouldn't behave a certain way.

Aidan loves everything being his (character's). But then he loves to wind me up."

Quite a revelation, or was this what everyone expected?

 



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Moorland Rambler wrote:
Stella Poldark wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/search?medium=tv&channel=&yearweek=201824&day=

It has been officially announced that Poldark series 4 will air on June 10th at 9pm on BBC1


Thank you for confirming the start date Stella, although I am disappointed already having read the fantasy fiction that is the last paragraph of the BBC's description of the first episode. The only similarity to the book is the word 'riot' and as for Jago Martin........do we really need fantasy characters? Also hasn't Demelza got enough to worry about without the added complication of her brothers being accused of murder? There will be no point getting out my 'Four Swans' ( I wasn't going to anyway) to check for similarities in that scene.

 


 I agree. Debbie Horsfield was somewhat defensive at the preview about this part of the episode. As you say the only similarity to the book is the riot disbelief



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Stella Poldark wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/search?medium=tv&channel=&yearweek=201824&day=

It has been officially announced that Poldark series 4 will air on June 10th at 9pm on BBC1


Thank you for confirming the start date Stella, although I am disappointed already having read the fantasy fiction that is the last paragraph of the BBC's description of the first episode. The only similarity to the book is the word 'riot' and as for Jago Martin........do we really need fantasy characters? Also hasn't Demelza got enough to worry about without the added complication of her brothers being accused of murder? There will be no point getting out my 'Four Swans' ( I wasn't going to anyway) to check for similarities in that scene.

 



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http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/search?medium=tv&channel=&yearweek=201824&day=

It has been officially announced that Poldark series 4 will air on June 10th at 9pm on BBC1



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Moorland Rambler wrote:
Stella Poldark wrote: 
I could recognise some of The Four Swans but Debbie Horsfield has changed things still. It is difficult to say much from just one episode but I think the characters will be closer to the books, if not all the story lines.

Stella - Your guarded optimism about series 4 has encouraged me a little. Rightly or wrongly, as a lead in to series 4, I have been rewatching the 1970s series on You Tube (from s2 episode 9 onwards) which has been thoroughly enjoyable. Production qualities aside it is a reminder that those episodes are full of dialogue often lifted word for word from the books. One outstanding example was the scene when Monk Adderley tricks his way into Demelza's apartments. You could almost follow it with the book in front of you. Of course there are still additions and changes but the spirit of the books is present in every episode and that is what we need in series 4.

 


 Moorland Rambler

Thank you so much for this post. For some time now I have wanted to watch series 2 of the 1970s Poldark but never got round to it. I have the DVD of both series but was initially put off by series 1. Your post has motivated me to finally watch this and I shall do so before the start of series 4.



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Stella Poldark wrote: 
I could recognise some of The Four Swans but Debbie Horsfield has changed things still. It is difficult to say much from just one episode but I think the characters will be closer to the books, if not all the story lines.

Stella - Your guarded optimism about series 4 has encouraged me a little. Rightly or wrongly, as a lead in to series 4, I have been rewatching the 1970s series on You Tube (from s2 episode 9 onwards) which has been thoroughly enjoyable. Production qualities aside it is a reminder that those episodes are full of dialogue often lifted word for word from the books. One outstanding example was the scene when Monk Adderley tricks his way into Demelza's apartments. You could almost follow it with the book in front of you. Of course there are still additions and changes but the spirit of the books is present in every episode and that is what we need in series 4.

 



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Stella, thanks for the insights. I am used to the American TV networks, which traditionally locked series schedules into place months in advance. I suspect PBS already has its premiere date for "Poldark" Season 4 set in stone, but it will not be announced until BBC announces its premiere date even though the series won't be airing here until autumn. 



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Dark Mare wrote:

Is such secretiveness about the start date for the next season of an established television series commonplace in the UK? Is it done to build enthusiasm for the show's return? 


 Dark Mare 

It's down to the BBC who do, on some occasions change the start dates. So there is an embargo on any information about this. What I picked up is that it won't be any time in May. My guess would be Sunday 10th June but it is only a guess. My only guess about the reason is to avoid clashing with other very popular programmes. The BBC appears to like a clear run for the first episode and there are some very popular programmes showing on other channels this month.

The other aspect to this is that audience figures determine whether there will be further series. Mammoth are hoping to dramatise all the books but this has to be agreed one series at a time. There is another factor in going beyond series 5 which may add to the difficulty. New contracts will have to be agreed with the main actors. I would think that the BBC might find it difficult to end the series with the end of 'The Miller's Dance' but who knows.



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Thursday 10th of May 2018 10:53:10 PM

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Is such secretiveness about the start date for the next season of an established television series commonplace in the UK? Is it done to build enthusiasm for the show's return? 



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Stella Poldark wrote:
Pollie wrote:

Aww. Thank you for this info. I am so excited for the first episode. I know you cant say much about content but if you feel you can can you answer if it stays true to the books or are there lots of new bits added by Debbie. So frustrating we have no air date yet.


 Pollie - I could recognise some of The Four Swans but Debbie Horsfield has changed things still. It is difficult to say much from just one episode but I think the characters will be closer to the books, if not all the story lines.


 Ah, I thought so. Oh well, whilst some complain about it not staying true to the books (including me sometimes too), there are also some changes which I really have appreciated. We'll see.



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Pollie wrote:

Aww. Thank you for this info. Iām so excited.fir the first episode. I know you canāt say much about content but if you feel you can can you answe if it stays true to the books or are there lots of new bits added by Debbie. So frustrating we have no air date yet.


 Pollie - I could recognise some of The Four Swans but Debbie Horsfield has changed things still. It is difficult to say much from just one episode but I think the characters will be closer to the books, if not all the story lines.



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Aww. Thank you for this info. I am so excited.for the first episode. I know you cant say much about content but if you feel you can can you answerif it stays true to the books or are there lots of new bits added by Debbie. So frustrating we have no air date yet.



-- Edited by Pollie on Tuesday 8th of May 2018 08:52:15 PM

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Little Henry wrote:

Stella,

How lucky of you to be there!  I was just now reading about it online and got excited and scared at the same time.  So nice of you to tell us your feelings about it and it sounds encouraging.  Did you win tickets or just apply? 

Have been thinking of adding something to another topic so will do that now.

 


 Little Henry - It was partly luck but mainly down to my membership of the British Film Institute that I got tickets for this event. Members are able to buy tickets 2 days before the public and they were all sold by then with some members unable to get tickets. 



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Stella,

How lucky of you to be there!  I was just now reading about it online and got excited and scared at the same time.  So nice of you to tell us your feelings about it and it sounds encouraging.  Did you win tickets or just apply? 

Have been thinking of adding something to another topic so will do that now.

 



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Yesterday I went to the Poldark Series 4 Preview at the BFI in London. We watched the entire first episode but we were all sworn to secrecy. There will be a series 5 but which books it will cover was not announced. The panel comprised Debbie Horsfield, Karen Thrussel and Aidan Turner. Eleanor Tomlinson was away working but had recorded a message for the event. 

Although I cannot give details of the first episode I can tell you that it tore at the heart strings causing feelings of anger, distress, happiness and relief. For me it was a powerful episode and appeared to be better quality than we saw in series 3.

We were refused any information on when it will start but many people think it may be later this month.

At the end many cast members who had sat among the audience lingered and spoke to any of us who spoke to them. This was a new experience. Prudie, Morwenna, Drake, Sam, Tom Harry, Andrew Graham, Ossie were all there and perhaps others too. It will not be long before we are discussing series 4 here.



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