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Post Info TOPIC: Instinct of tidiness


Fan

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Date: Jun 28 9:28 PM, 2018
RE: Instinct of tidiness
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That's fine, I have no problem with a different approach Thanks for your reply!

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Date: Jun 28 7:38 PM, 2018
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Blackleburr wrote:

Stella - I'm not sure I see the contradiction. Mrs Gimlett (and Hollyhock, Mini, and Fijane, who all took a similar stand below) may well be correct about WG's intentions in this passage. This doesn't make me enjoy digging down various rabbit holes any less Quite likely it is just the opposite - as the discussions are usually more interesting when not everyone is in agreement.


 OK. We are all different. I think I prefer to be able to feel I've got somewhere close to WG's intention. smile



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Fan

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Date: Jun 28 7:29 PM, 2018
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Stella - I'm not sure I see the contradiction. Mrs Gimlett (and Hollyhock, Mini, and Fijane, who all took a similar stand below) may well be correct about WG's intentions in this passage. This doesn't make me enjoy digging down various rabbit holes any less Quite likely it is just the opposite - as the discussions are usually more interesting when not everyone is in agreement.

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Date: Jun 28 2:59 PM, 2018
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Blackleburr wrote:

Mrs Gimlett & others sticking to the down-to-earth explanation for picking up the cloak - you may very well be right. In fact, I find myself liable to overthinking things quite a lot. But then, I like the thrill of it so much that I don't think I'll be giving it up any time soon...

-- Edited by Blackleburr on Thursday 28th of June 2018 09:54:22 AM


 Blackelburr - I would caution against moving away from from what you call Mrs G's "down-to-earth explanation" because her detailed knowledge of the books as a whole plus her knowledge of Winston Graham as a writer, gives her an accurate feel for his intentions which many of us lack. 



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Student

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Date: Jun 28 2:34 PM, 2018
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Yeah I know the impulse. What is in WG's genius that makes one do that. I do a lot of reading and sometimes I add different endings or dialogue  or rethink what authors write but not as much as I do with the Poldark's stories.

 

 

 



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Fan

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Date: Jun 28 9:51 AM, 2018
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Mrs Gimlett & others sticking to the down-to-earth explanation for picking up the cloak - you may very well be right. In fact, I find myself liable to overthinking things quite a lot. But then, I like the thrill of it so much that I don't think I'll be giving it up any time soon...

-- Edited by Blackleburr on Thursday 28th of June 2018 09:54:22 AM



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Student

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Date: Jun 26 11:19 PM, 2018
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I remember the scene in the book where he took off her slippers and retrieved her shoes. It touched me very much, it would have moved me even more if he had washed the blood and mud off her feet first but I have to be satisfied with what was.



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Date: Jun 24 9:57 AM, 2018
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I think, Blackleburr, you may be trying to find too deep a meaning in a simple act.  WG enriches most scenes by small details.  Ross was wretched, arriving home having accepted the position of MP which he really didn't want and knew he went into it for the wrong reasons.  He was worried where Demelza had got to, knowing that Hugh had died, and feared she may have gone off to Tregothnan. 

When she stumbled back indoors,  distraught and grief-stricken,  his initial feeling is  RELIEF.  He had two subsequent reactions. One, his anger that she had gone off (mostly directed at himself because he had been absent) and two, his discomfort over her uncontrollable despair at Hugh's death.  He was distracted by overwhelming confusion, wanting to know Demelza's thoughts, yet dreading them at the same time.  In situations like that, people do unlikely things.  His picking up of the cloak was simply an involuntary action. 

I have said it before in a different thread, but I love the ending of TFS.  It shows tenderness and a willingness for R&D to listen to each other.  Clowance's appearance is just perfect, making them each realise they are still a family who must pull together.



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Date: Jun 22 10:48 PM, 2018
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Hmm, I think you have something there. 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Friday 22nd of June 2018 10:50:20 PM

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Fan

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Date: Jun 22 3:08 PM, 2018
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Fijane - I'm glad you liked my question!

Dark Mare - interesting thought regarding the cloak. I'm probably stretching it too far now, but could Demelza's cloak be a symbol of her independence/agency? Remember how Ross buys Demelza her first scarlet cloak as he starts recognizing her as his companion, and that in a way marks the first step towards her becoming his equal? And later, when Demelza is conspiring to bring Verity and Captain Blamey together, her excuse to go to town (against Ross's wishes) is that she needs a new cloak? And then, when Ross & Demelza are discussing Hugh's death, the cloak features three times: first Demelza drops it on a chair and it "slid slowly like a snake to the floor", then she picks it up and smoothes it slowly (but apparently without much success), and finally Ross picks it up and folds it again (and this time for good, you'd hope). Just saying...



-- Edited by Blackleburr on Friday 22nd of June 2018 03:10:44 PM

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Graduate

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Date: Jun 21 10:10 AM, 2018
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I actually found the cloak's "behavior" more interesting than Ross'. When I think of fabrics that refuse to stay put, I think of silk, but who would have a cloak made of silk as an everyday garment? It is almost as if even Demelza's clothing is misbehaving. 



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Student

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Date: Jun 21 12:06 AM, 2018
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Blackleburr, Ross's anger may mean that he was folding the cloak to give himself time to get control of his feelings. I agree with the other possibilities, but this is another. Maybe it was a combination of all of them, to some extent.

Great question, by the way. I love hearing everyone's thoughts on these seemingly minor details, which often turn out to be major ones.



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Date: Jun 19 3:02 AM, 2018
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My apologies for drifting onto another cinematic representation, but there's a moment in Brokeback Mountain where the character Alma, having just spotted her husband in the arms of another man, puts down her handbag and begins looking through it. She isn't really looking through it, she's just DOING. Something, anything. I see Ross in that light; as Hollyhock said, something to do at the moment. Another breathtaking insight from WG.



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Date: Jun 19 12:47 AM, 2018
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Hi both, and thanks for sharing your insights!

Hollyhock - I like the simplicity of your coping mechanism explanation. I'm not entirely convinced that Ross was folding the cloak absentmindedly, though. If he was angry with Demelza (and we know that, at least in part, he was), he could have been folding the cloak very much on purpose, in the spirit of "doing the household chores demonstratively in front of your spouse in order to appear disinterested and look as if you're trying to hide your feelings when really all you're waiting for is for those feelings to be acknowledged". At least, that's what I would be doing in his place... I think. In any case, I agree that it's a touching detail - and an exquisite phrase on top of that.

Dave - yes, that scene rang the "washing of the feet" bell in my mind too. But maybe WG decided to not write it like that deliberately, as a way of showing how conflicted Ross's feelings were at that moment? On one hand, he was very kind and tender to Demelza (hence changing her slippers), but on the other he was hurt and angry with her (and so just told her she'd do well to wash her feet).



-- Edited by Blackleburr on Tuesday 19th of June 2018 08:37:57 AM

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Student

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Date: Jun 18 10:21 PM, 2018
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I liked that section of the story. I thought Ross behaved wonderfully in regards to Demelza's grieving. When he took off her slippers and gave her new ones, I wished he had washed the blood and mud off her feet first, it would be to me a very touching and an even greater act of kindness and concern towards Demelza. I guess WG might not have imagined writing that in the story, I think I would have. 



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Student

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Date: Jun 18 9:49 PM, 2018
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Hi Blackleburr, nice to meet you.

Folding the cloak had nothing to do with Ross wanting Demelza to stay or leave. It was more of a coping mechanism, something to do at the moment, and Ross was only half conscious of doing it. His mind was busy grappling with all that had happened, and all that he suspected had happened, so handling the cloak was one of those things that people do abstractedly when dealing with distress.  It's such a human touch and makes the scene realistic and natural. Details like this are what make WG's characters so memorable.



-- Edited by Hollyhock on Monday 18th of June 2018 10:33:36 PM

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Fan

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Date: Jun 18 7:32 PM, 2018
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Here is a question about a detail that was left out of the current tv adaptation. There is a passage in the scene at the end of "The Four Swans" when Demelza comes back from Killewarren, grieving the death of Hugh Armitage, where WG writes: "Demelza wiped her eyes again and gulped some of Ross's drink. Ross picked up her ruined slippers and dropped them in the children's basket, took up her cloak a second time, folded it. It was not an instinct of tidiness."

So, why is Ross folding Demelza's cloak? Is it to pack her off to leave? Or the opposite - to show that he wants her to stay? Any ideas?



-- Edited by Blackleburr on Friday 22nd of June 2018 11:05:36 PM

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