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Post Info TOPIC: Scenes we wish WG had followed up on


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Date: Apr 22 10:30 AM, 2018
RE: Scenes we wish WG had followed up on
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During the invasion of Portugal (1807), the Portuguese royal family fled to Brazil, establishing Rio de Janeiro as the de facto capital of Portugal. This had the side effect of creating within Brazil many of the institutions required to exist as an independent state; most importantly, it freed Brazil to trade (bingo!) with other nations at will.

After Napoleon's army was finally defeated in 1815, in order to maintain the capital in Brazil and allay Brazilian fears of being returned to colonial status, King John VI of Portugal raised the de jure status of Brazil to an equal, integral part of a United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil, and the Algarves, rather than a mere colony, a status which it enjoyed for the next seven years.

(What happened after seven years? A war of independence that the Brazilians won.)

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Very interesting and makes a lot of sense now thanks, consequently it would have been interesting if WG had followed up on what happened there in more detail and any possible repercussions in the Palace and Whitehall once Ross had returned.



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Date: Apr 22 2:54 AM, 2018
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Pollie wrote:

 

I wished he followed up on the scene at the Tregothnan party where Demelza conspired to drink too much port causing her to act more feeling and less proper than she would i order to turn Armitage off her. The story jumps to Demelza feeling quite depressed back home with Ross in their bedroom and nothing about whether her plan worked , what inappropriate things she might have said and done and the impact on Armitage or on others. 

Thinking about it, Demelza was always nervous and worried about acting right when at  these society parties, so it is quite significant that she took this step i the first place. We have been deprived about how this all went down and I suspect it probably had the opposite effect. 


 Me, too. I imagine Demelza was a kittenish drunk that night, ą la Tracy Lord (Katharine Hepburn) in "The Philadelphia Story," which would explain why her plan failed. I can't imagine her being a nasty drunk or a dance-on-the-table or swing-from-the-chandelier one. Maybe a self-conscious and self-controlled one whose oh-so-precise speech and movements are the only giveaways. She was a maudlin one in one of the later books and Ross nearly pitched her out of the house -- nice guy, isn't he?



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Date: Apr 22 12:39 AM, 2018
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Ross Poldark wrote:

 

Also more about Amadora and her family when Geoffrey Charles was in Spain and how he was received into society there her father being a member of the Cortes. But most of all in "Bella" when Ross mentioned to Demelza at the party which included Amadora's parents at Trenwith, momentarily shocking Senora de Bertendona by kissing her much to Demelza's surprise, that he had been part of the delegation to escort the Portuguese royal family from Lisbon to Brazil in '07. Making me wonder whoever ordered him to accompany the royal party, what secret plans WG might have had in mind for him to do once there as the family were simply escaping from the imminent arrival of Napoleon's army otherwise Brazil can't be of that much importance.


 If I hadn't gone to high school and college in California, a former possession of both Spain and Mexico, I wonder whether I would have encountered enough Latin American history to recognize why moving the Portuguese royal family to Brazil would have been a very big deal for the British foreign ministry. 

The period between the end of the American Revolution and about 1830 was marked by a long string of successful revolutions from Mexico to the southern tip of South America. British fingerprints were in evidence in many of the Spanish colonial uprisings for two reasons: 1.) Colonial trade restrictions had heavily favored Spain, meaning helping the rebels evict the Spanish would help British trade interests, which presumably needed help after the recent loss of the American colonies, and 2.) After Napoleon's brother was on the Spanish throne, there was the matter of a war between France/Spain and the U.K./Portugal. 

Presumably, the British foreign ministry would want to know how all these shooting wars going on around the rest of Latin America were affecting the people of Brazil, the largest colony in South America -- and given its current wealth, probably the richest too. Were they likely to catch independence fever too? Or were the Brazilians going to be willing to stick with Portugal? These paragraphs from Wikipedia suggest the Portuguese efforts to win Brazilian hearts and minds created some of the very institutions that positioned Brazil for independence: 

During the invasion of Portugal (1807), the Portuguese royal family fled to Brazil, establishing Rio de Janeiro as the de facto capital of Portugal. This had the side effect of creating within Brazil many of the institutions required to exist as an independent state; most importantly, it freed Brazil to trade (bingo!) with other nations at will.

After Napoleon's army was finally defeated in 1815, in order to maintain the capital in Brazil and allay Brazilian fears of being returned to colonial status, King John VI of Portugal raised the de jure status of Brazil to an equal, integral part of a United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil, and the Algarves, rather than a mere colony, a status which it enjoyed for the next seven years.

(What happened after seven years? A war of independence that the Brazilians won.) 

 

 



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Date: Apr 16 10:30 PM, 2018
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I wished he followed up on the scene at the Tregothnan party where Demelza conspired to drink too much port causing her to act more feeling and less proper than she would i order to turn Armitage off her. The story jumps to Demelza feeling quite depressed back home with Ross in their bedroom and nothing about whether her plan worked , what inappropriate things she might have said and done and the impact on Armitage or on others. 

Thinking about it, Demelza was always nervous and worried about acting right when at  these society parties, so it is quite significant that she took this step i the first place. We have been deprived about how this all went down and I suspect it probably had the opposite effect. 



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Date: Apr 6 10:11 PM, 2018
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Interesting thread and responses....

Not so much scenes more areas of interest that would have been interesting to learn more about were some of the shadier goings on at Sally Chill-offs, also Sally herself and her locals. Also the men and women from nearby villages would have been interesting as well, briefly illustrated after the fight with the men from Illoggan when Jud had wonderfully embellished everything that had happened. "Jesus was a St. Austell man" on another occasion still making me laugh even after so long !

Also more about Amadora and her family when Geoffrey Charles was in Spain and how he was received into society there her father being a member of the Cortes. But most of all in "Bella" when Ross mentioned to Demelza at the party which included Amadora's parents at Trenwith, momentarily shocking Senora de Bertendona by kissing her much to Demelza's surprise, that he had been part of the delegation to escort the Portuguese royal family from Lisbon to Brazil in '07. Making me wonder whoever ordered him to accompany the royal party, what secret plans WG might have had in mind for him to do once there as the family were simply escaping from the imminent arrival of Napoleon's army otherwise Brazil can't be of that much importance.



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Date: Apr 6 4:47 PM, 2018
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Good choice. I like that scene because it shows how Demelza's mind works. She is more than a matchmaker; she's a casting director. Poor Ross, he's playing checkers and she's playing 3-D chess.



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Date: Apr 6 12:17 PM, 2018
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I would have liked to have seen Tom Guildford reappear on the scene in 'Bella Poldark,' but even though this was signalled at the end of 'The Twisted Sword' he never appeared again.

In the penultimate chapter of 'The Twisted Sword' when Ross and Demelza are riding on the beach, this conversation takes place:-

Demelza said: 'I must send word to Clowance and Verity. (about the birth of Cuby's daughter) I am sure they will be anxious to know.'

 'I'm sure they will.'

'Ross, I have been wondering about Valentine and Selina in London.'

 'What could you be wondering about them?'

'Whether they may see Tom Guildford.'

 'You mean? . . . Oh my dear, it is too early to think of anything like that . . .'

 'I do not think of anything like that! But Tom is a good kind friend of Clowance's. If he came down I am sure he would be good for Clowance, good for her spirits, good for her - her health generally. And do not forget, he is a lawyer. He could be a great business help to her too.'

Ross said: 'In that case perhaps we should send a note to Edward Fitzmaurice so the two gentlemen may start from scratch.'

 'Ross, you are so vexatious! Why do I bear with you?'

'Well, you said she told you that if she ever married again it would not be for love, it would be for money or position. That would bring Edward strongly into the reckoning.'

'I do not know how you can be so cynical about your own daughter.'

'Is it cynical to face the facts? If Cuby is damaged, so in a similar but different way is Clowance. So we should do nothing, should we, and allow events to take their course?'

Demelza mentions Tom to Ross at the end of 'The Twisted Sword' but that is the last we hear of him. It seems odd that this mention of him is not a precursor to his return to the story. 

Earlier in 'The Twisted Sword,' on the ride back with Clowance from Valentine's home to Penrhyn (which she enjoyed so much,) Tom urged her to meet up with him at least twice per year to keep their friendship going. 

To separate they did not dismount, but Tom somehow manoeuvred his horse into a proximity that enabled him to give Clowance a smacking kiss. Clowance nearly lost her hat. She said: 'Tom, you are nice. It has been good to meet you again.'

 'Let us make this a twice yearly assignation. It will keep our friendship warm.'

Tom was a much closer 'kindred spirit' to Clowance than either Lord Edward Fitzmaurice or Philip Prideaux. I would liked to have seen him come back to woo her, having not married but waited and remained true to Clowance as he once had promised. I am sure she would have warmed to him much more quickly than her other two suitors and might even have been able to share her burdensome memories eventually. Even though Tom was a friend of Valentine, his liveliness usually stayed on the straight and narrow and I agree with Demelza that he would have been the tonic that Clowance needed despite her avowal to marry again only for wealth and position. I can't help thinking that, despite being surrounded by opulence and the kindness of Lord Edward, Clowance would have to endure a bleak future emotionally.

 



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Dark Mare wrote:
Are there any scenes in the Poldark books that suggest others that you wish WG had written? I have a few, but one stands way above all the others:
 
This scene from "The Four Swans" has Demelza wondering what it is about her that gets men to treat her the way they do. She is seated beside an elderly general who has taken the opportunity to explore her thigh with a sweaty palm, damaging her dress. She asks herself why men do these things to her and comes up with four possible reasons. The fourth is all men do this sort of thing to all women, and she resolves to ask Ross "how often he squeezes women's legs under the dinner table."
 
Oh WG, how could you leave that to my imagination? Oh Debbie Horsfield, why didn't you take a crack at it? Imagine the "spit take" Aidan Turner might have done when Demelza asked that question. 
 
 
Page 78, "The Four Swans" 

By the time they sat down it was three oclock. Demelza was opposite Lieutenant Armitage and between Dwight and General Macarmick. The latter, in spite of being elderly, was cheerful and outgoing, a man with a lot of opinions and no lack of the will to voice them. He had at one time been Member of Parliament for Truro, had raised a regiment for the West Indies and had made a fortune for himself in the wine trade. He was polite and charming to everyone, but in between courses when his hands were not engaged, he repeatedly felt Demelzas leg above the knee. 
 
She sometimes wondered what there was about herself that made men so forthcoming. In those early days when she had gone to various receptions and balls, she had always had them two or three deep asking for the next dance - and often for more besides. Sir Hugh Bodrugan still lumbered over to Nampara hopefully a couple of times a year, presumably expecting that sooner or later persistence would have its reward. Two years ago at that dinner party at Trelissick there had been that Frenchman who had larded his entire dinner conversation with improper suggestions. It didnt seem right. 
 
If she had known herself to be supremely beautiful or striking - as beautiful, for instance, as Elizabeth Warleggan, or as striking as Caroline Enys - it might have been more acceptable. Instead of that she was just friendly, and they took it the wrong way. Or else they sensed something particularly female about her that set them off. Or else because of her lack of breeding, they thought she would be easy game. Or else it happened to everybody. She must ask Ross how often he squeezed womens legs under the dinner table. 
 
... Demelza was relieved when dinner broke up. Not that she so much minded General Macarmicks intimacies, but his hand was growing progressively hotter, and she 
was afraid for her frock. Sure enough when she was able to look at herself upstairs, there were grease stains.

 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Sunday 1st of April 2018 12:44:11 AM


 Dark Mare - I recall there are many scenes that I wish WG had taken us further with instead of leaving us to wonder about but I shall need to refresh my memory. One that springs to mind is that I wish he could have written something (not everything) about how Ross and Elizabeth separately felt about their tryst on the night of May 9th.



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Date: Apr 1 12:43 AM, 2018
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Are there any scenes in the Poldark books that suggest others that you wish WG had written? I have a few, but one stands way above all the others:
 
This scene from "The Four Swans" has Demelza wondering what it is about her that gets men to treat her the way they do. She is seated beside an elderly general who has taken the opportunity to explore her thigh with a sweaty palm, damaging her dress. She asks herself why men do these things to her and comes up with four possible reasons. The fourth is all men do this sort of thing to all women, and she resolves to ask Ross "how often he squeezes women's legs under the dinner table."
 
Oh WG, how could you leave that to my imagination? Oh Debbie Horsfield, why didn't you take a crack at it? Imagine the "spit take" Aidan Turner might have done when Demelza asked that question. 
 
 
Page 78, "The Four Swans" 

By the time they sat down it was three oclock. Demelza was opposite Lieutenant Armitage and between Dwight and General Macarmick. The latter, in spite of being elderly, was cheerful and outgoing, a man with a lot of opinions and no lack of the will to voice them. He had at one time been Member of Parliament for Truro, had raised a regiment for the West Indies and had made a fortune for himself in the wine trade. He was polite and charming to everyone, but in between courses when his hands were not engaged, he repeatedly felt Demelzas leg above the knee. 
 
She sometimes wondered what there was about herself that made men so forthcoming. In those early days when she had gone to various receptions and balls, she had always had them two or three deep asking for the next dance - and often for more besides. Sir Hugh Bodrugan still lumbered over to Nampara hopefully a couple of times a year, presumably expecting that sooner or later persistence would have its reward. Two years ago at that dinner party at Trelissick there had been that Frenchman who had larded his entire dinner conversation with improper suggestions. It didnt seem right. 
 
If she had known herself to be supremely beautiful or striking - as beautiful, for instance, as Elizabeth Warleggan, or as striking as Caroline Enys - it might have been more acceptable. Instead of that she was just friendly, and they took it the wrong way. Or else they sensed something particularly female about her that set them off. Or else because of her lack of breeding, they thought she would be easy game. Or else it happened to everybody. She must ask Ross how often he squeezed womens legs under the dinner table. 
 
... Demelza was relieved when dinner broke up. Not that she so much minded General Macarmicks intimacies, but his hand was growing progressively hotter, and she 
was afraid for her frock. Sure enough when she was able to look at herself upstairs, there were grease stains.

 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Sunday 1st of April 2018 12:44:11 AM

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