Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Ward Lock Book 1 - Ross Poldark.


Undergraduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 404
Date: Oct 25 4:57 PM, 2017
RE: Ward Lock Book 1 - Ross Poldark.
Permalink  
 


Don't you love how WG pays back those who gossip eventually? 
 
Page 139, "The Angry Tide" (from the guest list for George's party for John Robinson) 

Dr Choake very lame these days and only really comfortable on a horse with his feather-brained lisping wife Polly, who now wore a wig to cover her greying hair and was indulging so gossips said in an affaire with her groom.

 

 

 

P.S. Thanks, Mrs. G. That chapter is also in the Kindle edition so I'm not as out of the loop as I thought.

 



__________________


Honorary Life Member. Forum Moderator

Status: Offline
Posts: 761
Date: Oct 25 9:08 AM, 2017
Permalink  
 

I have always read that comment by Choake as being him putting his foot in it about Ross and Jinny.  For some unaccountable reason, all the villagers knew how Benjy Ross came by his scar, but preferred the old wives tale about Benjy being Ross' son. This became entrenched in the common lore of the area. Individuals (like Mark Daniel) gave lie to the slander when challenged, but collectively it still persisted.

 

Dark Mare - there is no more information in the first edition about the aftermath of Clemmow's attack.  There is, however, a complete chapter when Ross visits Reuben in his stinking cottage and warns him not to follow or do anything to Jinny.

 



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Wednesday 25th of October 2017 09:09:45 AM

__________________


Undergraduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 404
Date: Oct 24 6:37 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

I am not fortunate enough to have a first edition of "Ross Poldark" and have wondered whether WG previously wrote more on Reuben Clemmow's late-night visit to the Carters' cottage than what I find in my Kindle copy of the book (below). Did Dr. Choake treat Jinny and the baby that night, for example? 
 
 
Page 204, "Ross Poldark"

By the light of the candle he carried, it was possible to see the changes that months of living in lonely caves had brought. The flesh had shrunk from face and arms. He was in rags and barefoot, his beard and hair straggling and wet as if he had come from some underwater cave. Yet it was the same Reuben Clemmow she had always known, with the pale self-centered eyes and the uncertain mouth and the white creases in the sun-reddened face. 
She fought down a wave of illness and stared at him. 
Wheres my fry pan? he said. Stole my fry pan. 
The child in her arms wriggled and gasped for breath and began to cry again. 
Reuben climbed up the steps, and the trap door slammed back into place. For the first time he saw the bundle she clutched. Recognition of her was slow in dawning. When it came, all the rest came with it, remembrance of the injury done him, of why he was forced to shun people and frequent his cottage only at night, of the ten-month-old wound still festering in his side, of his lust for her, of his hatred for the man who had given her the squealing infant: Ross Poldark. 
"Lily, he muttered. White lily sin 
He had been so long apart from people that he had lost the faculty of making them understand. Speech was for him alone. 
He straightened himself awkwardly, for the muscles had contracted about the wound. Jinny was praying again. 
He took a step forward. Pure Lily he said, and then something in the girls attitude sent his brain clicking over upon an old forgotten rhythm of his childhood. Why standest thou so far off an hidest thy face in the needful time o trouble. The ungodly for is own lust doth persecute; let im be taken in the crafty wiliness that they ave imagined. For the ungodlyth made a boast of his hearts desire, an speaketh good of the covetous. He took out his knife, an old trappers knife, with the blade worn down to about four inches from years of sharpening and use. In the months of isolation desire for her had become confused with revenge. In lust there is always conquest and destruction. 
The candle began to tremble and he put it on the floor, where the draft blew the light in gusts about the room and sweated tallow on the boards. He sittest lurkin in the thievish corners o the streets, and privily in is lurkin dens doth e murder the innocent. 
Jinny lost her head and began to scream. Her voice went up and up. 
As he took another step forward, she forced her legs to move. She was halfway across the bed when Reuben caught her and stabbed at the child. She partly parried the blow, but the knife came away red. 
The girls scream changed its note, became more animal in sound. Reuben stared at the knife with passionate interest, then recovered himself as she reached the trap door. She turned as he came rushing up. He stabbed at her and felt the knife go into her. Then inside him all that had been tense and hard and burning suddenly ran away through his veins. He dropped the knife and watched her fall. 
An extra gust of wind blew the candle out. He shouted and groped for the trap door. His foot slipped on something greasy and his hand touched a womans hair. He recoiled and screamed, banged on the boarding of the room, but he was shut in forever with the horror he had created. 
He pulled himself upward by the bed, blundered across the room, and found the shutters of the window. Shouting, he fought with them but could not find the bolt. Then he thrust forward his whole weight and the fastenings gave way before him. With a sense of breaking from a prison, he fell forward out of the window, out of the prison, out of life, upon the cobbles below.

 



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 150
Date: Oct 23 9:53 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Hi Brightgirl, thanks so much!

I believe you might have solved the mystery about the origin of the rumors about Ross and Jinny.  People probably did assume that Ross was like Joshua, especially with the rumors about Demelza already widely accepted as truth.  Choake and his silly wife would have helped spread the gossip. 

I agree that others' perspectives are helpful. 



__________________


Newbie

Status: Offline
Posts: 6
Date: Oct 23 7:58 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Hi Hollyhock, I always enjoy reading your comments and thoughts.

I recently read this section again but I took it a different way.  I thought Choake was implying that Ross had cuckolded Jim (if that is how you phrase it).  In other words,

Ross had had an affair with Jinny. I know after Julia was born Jud implied Benjamin Ross was Ross' child because of the scar on Benjamin Ross' face which he had suffered from the knife wound when Clemmow cut him when attacking Jinny.  And of course, at the time of this comment by Choake, rumors were already circulating about Ross and Demelza.  But, at the same time, I don't know why anyone would have thought there was something going on between Ross and Jinny specifically. Perhaps people just assumed Ross would turn out to be like his father Joshua.

But your interpretation may be correct.  This is why I enjoy reading everyone's comments so much.  Every time I read and reread these books I discover something new or even interpret something a different way myself.



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 150
Date: Oct 23 7:56 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Stella-that is hilarious! biggrin

Thanks!

 



__________________


Undergraduate

Status: Online
Posts: 304
Date: Oct 23 7:49 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Hollyhock wrote:

Thanks Stella, you're right! That's what I get for drinking port while reading. It muddles the brain.smile


Hollyhock -  I'm so relieved to read your post as I thought it was me that was missing something wink



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Monday 23rd of October 2017 07:49:49 PM

__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 150
Date: Oct 23 7:44 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Thanks Stella, you're right! That's what I get for drinking port while reading. It muddles the brain.smile



__________________


Undergraduate

Status: Online
Posts: 304
Date: Oct 23 7:39 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Hollyhock wrote:

This one made me drop my bottle of port. When Jim Carter, Ross' former farm hand, is caught poaching on Bodrugan land he is sent to Truro for prosecution. Ross asks surgeon Choake, who treats Jim's lung disease, to testify on Jim's behalf stating phthisis as a reason for leniency. In WL Book 1 they then have the following exchange.

Choake says, "No good will come of being sentimental about such folk. Why don't you let the little cuckold take his medicine?"

"Why do you call him that?" Ross's expression was at its most discouraging.

The doctor looked uneasy. "Don't know. Don't know at all. Just an expression. One is always hearing idle gossip."

"What gossip?"

"Oh nothing at all. We was confusing two people. In this case it was a figure of speech. But I'll set you out a note of what I've said about the boy. Signed with my own hand and sealed like a writ. That will be just as good as going there and standing in the box like a felon. We couldn't do that."

Ross grudgingly accepted. The surgeon seemed suddenly anxious to placate him. (229-230)

Given his guilty reaction, I believe Choake was implying that Jim was a product of Joshua's indiscriminate philandering. Of course the dates don't seem right; Jim was only 3 or 4 years younger than Ross and Joshua would have been happily married when Jim was born. But I'm wondering if that was the rumor the gossipy Choake was helping to perpetuate--that Jim was Ross's half sibling.

Although he himself had no suspicions along those lines, Ross was very fond of Jim. People might have taken his fondness as sign of relationship. But putting Jim aside, I'd be surprised if Joshua had not fathered illegitimate children.

 

 


 My understanding of the meaning of 'cuckold' is a man whose wife deceives him by having a sexual relationship with another man. So Choake is suggesting that Jinny has been unfaithful to Jim. This allegation is never mentioned again in the books that I can recall so it sounds like someone has spread malicious gossip about Jinny. Who, I wonder, would do that.



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 150
Date: Oct 23 7:05 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

This one made me drop my bottle of port. When Jim Carter, Ross' former farm hand, is caught poaching on Bodrugan land he is sent to Truro for prosecution. Ross asks surgeon Choake, who treats Jim's lung disease, to testify on Jim's behalf stating phthisis as a reason for leniency. In WL Book 1 they then have the following exchange.

Choake says, "No good will come of being sentimental about such folk. Why don't you let the little cuckold take his medicine?"

"Why do you call him that?" Ross's expression was at its most discouraging.

The doctor looked uneasy. "Don't know. Don't know at all. Just an expression. One is always hearing idle gossip."

"What gossip?"

"Oh nothing at all. We was confusing two people. In this case it was a figure of speech. But I'll set you out a note of what I've said about the boy. Signed with my own hand and sealed like a writ. That will be just as good as going there and standing in the box like a felon. We couldn't do that."

Ross grudgingly accepted. The surgeon seemed suddenly anxious to placate him. (229-230)

Given his guilty reaction, I believe Choake was implying that Jim was a product of Joshua's indiscriminate philandering. Of course the dates don't seem right; Jim was only 3 or 4 years younger than Ross and Joshua would have been happily married when Jim was born. But I'm wondering if that was the rumor the gossipy Choake was helping to perpetuate--that Jim was Ross's half sibling.

Although he himself had no suspicions along those lines, Ross was very fond of Jim. People might have taken his fondness as sign of relationship. But putting Jim aside, I'd be surprised if Joshua had not fathered illegitimate children.

 

 



__________________


Undergraduate

Status: Online
Posts: 304
Date: Oct 11 12:18 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Stella, I don't think Ross was destitute on his return to Cornwall.  Even if you read the edited books, it is plain he has some money in the bank, for he buys Darkie, some livestock and engages workers; replaces some of the household items Jud and Prudie had misused and orders liquor from the free-traders.  What is missing from either version is anything relating to the Grambler shares.  The only mention is in the Prologue, and thereafter it is forgotten.  Perhaps it is as well he wasn't relying on the income from his uncle's mine...


As you say - Mrs G - Ross was not destitute  and I had forgotten that Pearce told him that his father had left him a few hundred pounds. Yes it is odd that the Grambler shares are mentioned only in the Prologue and he would have received a small sum from them I imagine, if only for a short time. Thank you for reminding me. I am just coming to the end of my re-reading of the first edition Ross Poldark and it has reminded just how little of this book was included in series one of the latest productions.



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Wednesday 11th of October 2017 12:18:31 PM

__________________


Honorary Life Member. Forum Moderator

Status: Offline
Posts: 761
Date: Oct 9 7:33 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Stella, I don't think Ross was destitute on his return to Cornwall.  Even if you read the edited books, it is plain he has some money in the bank, for he buys Darkie, some livestock and engages workers; replaces some of the household items Jud and Prudie had misused and orders liquor from the free-traders.  What is missing from either version is anything relating to the Grambler shares.  The only mention is in the Prologue, and thereafter it is forgotten.  Perhaps it is as well he wasn't relying on the income from his uncle's mine...



__________________


Undergraduate

Status: Online
Posts: 304
Date: Oct 2 7:06 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Hollyhock wrote:

I've been browsing a WL Book 1 (1st ed., 2nd printing) and comparing it to one of the later versions. I agree with Mrs Gimlett that WL makes for a richer reading experience.

Regarding the Grambler shares, even though there's no mention of it, I assumed Ross received his dividends until the mine failed. Even more noteworthy, I don't recall any mention of the Mellin tenents paying him rent. (Jim offered at one point but Ross refused). But he was probably receiving that revenue as well--I can't imagine he would allow Nick Vigus to live rent free. (Until Ross returned, Jud probably collected and used that money for his gin supply ) At any rate, those two incomes, no matter how meager, would have helped Ross restore Nampara. He had money to pay Jim and he must have paid the little Martin children something for all their hard work in clearing the Nampara fields. He also had money to restock the farm and replenish his wardrobe (and, ahem, pay a certain lady for her services).

But Joshua did not leave Ross destitute. (Here's where WL is more detailed.) When Notary Pearce was apprising Ross of his inheritance, he said Joshua left him several hundred on deposit at Pasco's bank. (Later, that must have seemed like a fortune when Ross had to struggle so desperately to pay the scheming Warleggans their extortionate interest on his loan.)  Anyway, by the time he re-opened Leisure Ross seemed comfortable.

I also found it incredible that the first night Ross returned to the defiled Nampara he found dogs in the house (again WL). When trying to locate Jud and Prudie, "half a dozen big curs leaped nosily at him" from the still-room door. We know Jud hated dogs so it was odd that he allowed Prudie to keep them in the house. These dogs were not mentioned again (I totally forgot about them!) until Demelza brought Garrick along with her to Nampara. Ross wondered at the time what Prudie's reaction would be since he had "insisted on getting rid of all the lost curs to which she had given a home."

Love discovering these details.


 Hollyhock - you are experiencing the delights that the original edition of Ross Poldark gives to the reader. There is so much more information in the ward Lock books as you are discovering. Before I read the originals I wondered about a lot of things, especially how Ross was managing to even buy food when he first came back to Cornwall. It is also made clear, I recall, that Jud and Prudie were paid to look after Nampara in Ross's absence. It is like reading a different book!



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 150
Date: Oct 2 4:15 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

I've been browsing a WL Book 1 (1st ed., 2nd printing) and comparing it to one of the later versions. I agree with Mrs Gimlett that WL makes for a richer reading experience.

Regarding the Grambler shares, even though there's no mention of it, I assumed Ross received his dividends until the mine failed. Even more noteworthy, I don't recall any mention of the Mellin tenents paying him rent. (Jim offered at one point but Ross refused). But he was probably receiving that revenue as well--I can't imagine he would allow Nick Vigus to live rent free. (Until Ross returned, Jud probably collected and used that money for his gin supply ) At any rate, those two incomes, no matter how meager, would have helped Ross restore Nampara. He had money to pay Jim and he must have paid the little Martin children something for all their hard work in clearing the Nampara fields. He also had money to restock the farm and replenish his wardrobe (and, ahem, pay a certain lady for her services).

But Joshua did not leave Ross destitute. (Here's where WL is more detailed.) When Notary Pearce was apprising Ross of his inheritance, he said Joshua left him several hundred on deposit at Pascoe's bank. (Later, that must have seemed like a fortune when Ross had to struggle so desperately to pay the scheming Warleggans their extortionate interest on his loan.)  Anyway, by the time he re-opened Leisure Ross seemed comfortable.

I also found it incredible that the first night Ross returned to the defiled Nampara he found dogs in the house (again WL). When trying to locate Jud and Prudie, "half a dozen big curs leaped nosily at him" from the still-room door. We know Jud hated dogs so it was odd that he allowed Prudie to keep them in the house. These dogs were not mentioned again (I totally forgot about them!) until Demelza brought Garrick along with her to Nampara. Ross wondered at the time what Prudie's reaction would be since he had "insisted on getting rid of all the lost curs to which she had given a home."

Love discovering these details.



-- Edited by Hollyhock on Wednesday 11th of October 2017 09:30:09 PM

__________________


Undergraduate

Status: Online
Posts: 304
Date: Aug 28 8:36 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

In chapter 4 part 2 of Book one we are treated to a tour of Nampara. It begins with a comment from Charles when he was first shown round. He said that it had as many unexpected features as a cross between a bloodhound and a poodle bitch. This was half truth, half brotherly spite." It continues with "the library, which made a single story west wing for the house, had never been finished: money had given out, and what was to have been a show feature had instead become a draughty shuttered barn in which Joshua,a great hoarder, had come to store the rubbish of a lifetime."

There is much more information about Nampara that gives the reader a wonderful feel of the house but even in this small piece I have quoted there is much information about the library which features a lot throughout the books and we learn a bit more about Joshua. It continues with more descriptions of Nampara and snippets of information about Joshua so that the reader is well informed about the house and can form a picture of it in their mind. There is also dialogue between Jud and Ross about some furniture which had been moved and now brought back by Jud. All this and more gives us important information, not only about the house but what has happened in it since Ross left for America. It also includes information about Elizabeth's letters to Ross and the possibility of letters being lost.

I hope I have given enough information to whet the appetite for first edition copies of the first four books.

 



__________________


Administration

Status: Online
Posts: 1618
Date: Aug 10 11:10 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Dark Mare wrote:

It would have made more sense for Charles to have bought Ross' shares of the mine. That would have given Ross some cash to get started on -- and given him one fewer reason to visit Trenwith after Francis and Elizabeth were married.


Possibly but at what point would Charles have bought Ross' shares of the mine.... ?



__________________

"Perfection is a full stop .... Ever the climbing but never the attaining Of the mountain top." W.G.

 

 



Undergraduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 404
Date: Aug 10 10:34 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Ah, yes, the original.  So much more rounded than later editions.  I love the fuller descriptions of the Nampara area, the house itself and of Francis and Elizabeth's wedding. 

The latter shows Francis did love Elizabeth at the time of their marriage and probably would have continued to she had only encouraged him. 

To start at the beginning, though,  and that small piece in the Prologue, when Joshua tells his brother that his shares in Grambler will go to Verity if Ross fails to return has always intrigued me.  There is no other mention of it and however little the shares may have brought in, it would have been very helpful to Ross in his quest to renovate house and land.  Perhaps it ceased as Grambler mine itself slowly wound down and eventually closed.  However, there are a few years of prosperity for the Trenwith Poldarks before that, when Ross might have expected some return.  Do you think Charles rescinded the shares on Joshua's death?


It would have made more sense for Charles to have bought Ross' shares of the mine. That would have given Ross some cash to get started on -- and given him one fewer reason to visit Trenwith after Francis and Elizabeth were married.



__________________


Administration

Status: Online
Posts: 1618
Date: Aug 9 7:15 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Good question Mrs. G.

I think Charles (as presumably executor or would it have been Pearce back then ?) might well have rescinded the shares after Joshua died as I'm pretty sure he was already determined on arranging a marriage between Francis and Elizabeth, wanting Elizabeth to have further evidence that Ross was hard up and therefore quite unsuitable for her. In addition he had probably already made sure that Verity would have been well provided for anyway.

As a side issue it would seem probate didn't become law until 1858 which I'm sure WG would have already checked first in any case.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/wills-or-administrations-after-1858/

However one thought has just crossed my mind. In the last paragraph in Chapter 1 Nat Pearce says he will get a copy of the Will for Ross to take home and read it at his leisure, so surely Joshua would have stipulated the shares were to be left to Ross as well. If so then Charles would have had a lot of explaining to do !



__________________

"Perfection is a full stop .... Ever the climbing but never the attaining Of the mountain top." W.G.

 

 



Honorary Life Member. Forum Moderator

Status: Offline
Posts: 761
Date: Aug 9 6:01 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Ah, yes, the original.  So much more rounded than later editions.  I love the fuller descriptions of the Nampara area, the house itself and of Francis and Elizabeth's wedding. 

The latter shows Francis did love Elizabeth at the time of their marriage and probably would have continued to she had only encouraged him. 

To start at the beginning, though,  and that small piece in the Prologue, when Joshua tells his brother that his shares in Grambler will go to Verity if Ross fails to return has always intrigued me.  There is no other mention of it and however little the shares may have brought in, it would have been very helpful to Ross in his quest to renovate house and land.  Perhaps it ceased as Grambler mine itself slowly wound down and eventually closed.  However, there are a few years of prosperity for the Trenwith Poldarks before that, when Ross might have expected some return.  Do you think Charles rescinded the shares on Joshua's death?

 



__________________


Administration

Status: Online
Posts: 1618
Date: Aug 8 8:48 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Discussions about Ward Lock Book 1 - Ross Poldark.



__________________

"Perfection is a full stop .... Ever the climbing but never the attaining Of the mountain top." W.G.

 

 

Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.