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Post Info TOPIC: Series 3 Episode 9


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Date: Nov 26 10:03 AM, 2017
RE: Series 3 Episode 9
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Dave wrote:

Yes her words do not do her any favor. They only portray a women who is emotionally immature and under developed intellectually. 


 Dave - I think you are right. ET was a child actor and left school quite young. Some child actors are precocious and full of their own importance. Although Aidan probably hasn't read all the books he seems to have a better understanding of the characters than ET does.



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Date: Nov 26 4:25 AM, 2017
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Yes her words do not do her any favor. They only portray a women who is emotionally immature and under developed intellectually. 



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Date: Nov 25 4:13 AM, 2017
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P.S.  I hope we hear no more from her.



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And we had to go through so many episodes of her rants and raves about adultery in Season 2.  Signifying nothing.  Poor Ross.  But I see her comments as sexist rather than feminist.  If a man said that . . . well, he just couldn't and wouldn't I don't think.  It's a very selfish way of thinking.  Poor Ross again.  I have to wonder how many people actually agree with her.  Oh if only they could go back to the 1700's where the story belongs.  There is a passage in one of the later Poldark books where Demelza thinks something like "and you always do whatever you want" - I remember being struck by that as I have heard other women say that.  She doesn't say it but as someone else said about the series, every thought is now vocalized.



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Date: Nov 25 1:42 AM, 2017
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Brightgirl wrote:

 The following youtube video was also submitted by PBS/Masterpiece.  Brief interviews with Aidan, Eleanor, Josh and Debbie Horsefield about Demelza and Hugh's relationship.  Just so sad this misinterpretation of the books.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-U_eVIEThM&feature=youtu.be


I didn't mind DH's and Aidan's comments in this clip, but Elinor T's showed so clearly how she has very little idea of who Demelza is. She describes the scene in the grass (which should have been the seal cave scene) as "powerful", "strong" and "sensitive", all adjectives that made me cringe!  Only someone viewing the scene through very modern eyes could describe adultery and betrayal as strong and powerful.

ET also sees the incident as Demelza "taking control of her own life, and of their relationship" and again, only a post-1960s feminist would ever view a marriage in this way. She sees Demelza as "living her life just as Ross lives his". Total poppycock, IMO, in that era.



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Dave wrote:

After reading the last few posts and E.T.'s interview makes me wonder if  E.T. even read the book. I really find it hard to understand her thinking about Demelza's character otherwise. Yes, it is all but the money. Sometimes I think BBC or who in England produces these is under a great pressure from the US market to hurry up and get it done. Maybe they should do like Doc Martin do a film every other year. Of course, it also could be a generational thing. E.T.'s age and her fans have not had the experience to appreciate the nuances and subtleties of drama and character development. 



-- Edited by Dave on Thursday 23rd of November 2017 04:54:50 AM



-- Edited by Dave on Thursday 23rd of November 2017 04:55:37 AM


I suspect Eleanor Tomlinson has read the books and has gotten frustrated with Demelza. The Demelza she signed on to play was the one in the first two books. The Demelza of the subsequent books is changed by the unforeseen consequences of her actions in engineering Verity's elopement and saving Geoffrey Charles' life. She and the people she cares most about suffered greatly because of what she did and knowing that changed her -- after one last foray (Bodmin), which could have gotten Ross executed. That was the "wakeup call." That was when she realized she was capable of becoming even more headstrong than Ross and that had to stop. No longer was she going to lead from the heart, confident that she knew best. She might climb out the bedroom window to warn Ross that the farm was crawling with soldiers because the only person that endangered was her, but she would never again do anything that could endanger someone else. That's what made May 9th so frustrating. She had three opportunities to prevent Ross' late-night visit to Trenwith, but she did nothing. Very unlike a take-charge Demelza, which is probably why Debbie Horsfield felt the need to change the delivery time and method for Elizabeth's letter announcing her engagement. Instead of the letter coming by post at 3 p.m. and sitting on the mantelpiece until Ross arrived home after 9 p.m., giving Demelza six hours to do something, it arrived by messenger just after Ross got home and was put directly into his hands by Prudie. Demelza had no opportunity to intercept it and hold it until morning. 



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Date: Nov 23 4:34 AM, 2017
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 The following youtube video was also submitted by PBS/Masterpiece.  Brief interviews with Aidan, Eleanor, Josh and Debbie Horsefield about Demelza and Hugh's relationship.  Just so sad this misinterpretation of the books.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-U_eVIEThM&feature=youtu.be



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Date: Nov 22 11:18 PM, 2017
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After reading the last few posts and E.T.'s interview makes me wonder if  E.T. even read the book. I really find it hard to understand her thinking about Demelza's character otherwise. Yes, it is all but the money. Sometimes I think BBC or who in England produces these is under a great pressure from the US market to hurry up and get it done. Maybe they should do like Doc Martin do a film every other year. Of course, it also could be a generational thing. E.T.'s age and her fans have not had the experience to appreciate the nuances and subtleties of drama and character development. 



-- Edited by Dave on Thursday 23rd of November 2017 04:54:50 AM



-- Edited by Dave on Thursday 23rd of November 2017 04:55:37 AM

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Date: Nov 22 10:07 PM, 2017
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Regarding Elizabeth's statement -  When George and Elizabeth are talking about Drake's closeness to Trenwith George asks Elizabeth if she has seen anything of the Poldark's lately and she says "Nothing".  WG says that this is her first lie.  So even on the bible she might have lied as it was very important to her that George have no doubts about Valentine.  Even so, George later gets suspicious again and says "she might have chosen better words" and he wanted "additional sentences".  So her statement was somewhat ambiguous and maybe to her just a half-lie.



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Date: Nov 22 6:09 PM, 2017
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Drat, I swore to never read any interviews again or any comments as it has affected my reading of the books.  I am finishing "The Four Swans" and in every scene I picture how the series will make it worse than it is.  This feeling will go in time I trust.  I come across the interviews sometimes and can't resist reading them, hoping for something positive.  I wish I didn't care so much and I wish certain others cared more.



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Date: Nov 22 5:34 PM, 2017
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I have found a fairly recent podcast/transcript of an interview given by Eleanor Tomlinson to PBS/Masterpiece which (I assume) provides an insight into her thinking as well as the way things work on producing the series. I found the transcript easier to digest than the podcast. To get the transcript just click on the transcript link on the page.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/podcasts/eleanor-tomlinson-thinks-demelza-deserves-a-good-time/

There are many clues in what she says that point to the way the series was made and why Demelza's actions and demeanour differed so greatly from that in 'The Four Swans.'

 



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Little Henry wrote: 

I watched the finale in Canada on Sunday.  Hated so much of it but thought I would just "say nothing".  But I get emails from PBS and I made the mistake of reading an interview with Eleanor Tomlinson which was very upsetting to me so I have to vent.  She thinks it is an accomplishment to have "created a character that people want to be unfaithful to the leading man".  She thinks Demelza deserved to have "a bit of fun" and her infidelity gave Ross that "kick he needed" as she was "constantly let down by Ross" etc. etc.  I want to scream at her.  It's one thing for her to think of infidelity as a bit of fun but to put that on Demelza is unbelievable.  How did they get Ross and Demelza so wrong?  The writer has to be the ultimate source.  What a short memory her Demelza has.   In Series 4 ET says Demelza has to "stick to her guns".  Oh no, wish I could look forward to that.

 

Little Henry- I  join you in venting.

The season finale was also shown here in the U.S. last Sunday. I didn't have the heart to re-watch all S3 episodes since I'd already suffered through them on YouTube. However, hearing so many accolades from tv fans, I thought I'd watch E9 (so essential a part of The Four Swans) and see if my initial knee jerk reaction was too harsh.  No. The episode was just as disappointing on second viewing. Unfortunately, it is Demelza and her henchwoman Prudie who cast a pall over the entire the production.

I too echo the belief that DH is contriving to transform Eleanor Tomlinson into a prima donna and make her the break-out star of the Poldark series. This strategy seems to be working as evidenced by the ratings and fan adulation. I find the motivations of DH & Co quite similar to those of George Warleggan's. For George it was all about money and power and the prestige that came with it. For DH & Co it appears to be all about the ratings, which apparently translate into power and prestige. Obviously, DH and ET believe only a diva with modern day sensibilities can guarantee ratings. 

Similar to others, I find Prudie's character revision bizarre. She has been transformed into D's most intimate confidant, in all her drunken griminess. Her sole purpose seems to be to sit like a devil on D's shoulder, fan the flames of her discontent, and whisper dissent in her ear.

However, more than anything else, it is Demelza's gratuitous nastiness that overshadows everything and makes her character so unappealing. So much so that the pivotal ending of E9 becomes a travesty in DH's heavy-handed revision. Just as she seeks to control everything else, Demelza becomes the aggressor in the so-called seduction scene. When, like the creepy stalker he is, HA uses his failing eye sight to gain her sympathy, she takes the lead in the sexual encounter, urging him on. Even he looked surprised at her boldness. Then, afterwards, she had the temerity to go and jump in the bed with Ross and imply she had contemplated running off with her lover. Disgusting and too over the top. Interestingly, the only thing tv Demelza had in common with book Demelza was their lack of remorse over their adultery and betrayal of Ross' belief in their loyalty.  

Unbelievably and sadly, her fans applauded her actions. So the series ended on this unfortunate note, rationalizing, justifying, and cheering adultery. Apparently in DH's universe, the goose and the gander are not to be judged equally when it comes to adultery. 

Except for the vindictive D, there were good performances. I very much liked Heida's portrayal of Elizabeth in her confrontation with George. Her reducing him to a blathering mess was very well done. (I actually like tv Elizabeth much more than tv Demelza.)

And of course, despite DH and ET's efforts to emasculate him, Aidan continues to perform brilliantly. He captures the integrity of book Ross, no matter how many ridiculous situations DH places him in (Ross threatening villagers with guns, really?). Despite all obstacles, Aidan continues to bring the essence of WG's Ross to the screen. I don't think there can be any compliment higher than that. 

 

 



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Was Ross and Elizabeth's night together a tryst or rape? I know this is a difficult topic for many of you. I was surprised in the film S 3, E.9 where Elizabeth is swearing on the bible, and this was taken seriously in those times, she said: "I swear I have never given myself to another man......".  I interpret that as meaning she was forced and not with her consent. I thought when I heard that dialogue it struck me as interesting. 



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OK well after watching Episode 9 Season 3 on the TV some thoughts.

I have come to terms with this season and their handling of the Poldark characters in particular Demelza. I just wish they could have spent more effort in better script writing. I feel if they wanted to do so with some work they could get to the spirit of W.G.'s writings. As I have stated before my wife Phyllis and daughter Nancy are watching this series but they haven't read the books. So I am doing the best to try explaining the real intent of W.G.'s writing about these characters and situations. It is really hard to do without revealing spoilers especially since Phyllis doesn't want to hear them.  I and I am sure those of you who have read the books feel so superior to those poor souls who haven't read the books. They have missed so much. I know this sounds so bookish, snobbish, elitist but it is the truth.

 

I will end here as I don't want to get too lengthy. Will give more of my thoughts on Episode 9 later. 



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Debbie Horsfield is so revered I feel I'm missing something and I try hard to reconcile what she writes with the books but just can't sometimes.  Aidan Turner says that the best thing about being on Poldark is DH and her brilliant writing and how she takes care of him.  I would love to ask him in fun if telling your wife angrily to "look elsewhere for a pet" is so brilliant.  Demelza is so popular but shouldn't both parties in a love story be loved or at least liked.  I find there is a great disconnect between what the main parties say and what is actually shown on the series.  For instance they mention the love and respect R & D have but don't show it, they say that Demelza is not revengeful but spend many episodes indicating that that's where she's heading, and even going back to Ross and Elizabeth's tryst, they made a big deal of it being consensual sex but I thought they wrote and filmed it very violently.  Thank you Stella for making me feel I'm not the alien.  I notice so many people are reading the books and that can only be good.



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Little Henry wrote:

I watched the finale in Canada on Sunday.  Hated so much of it but thought I would just "say nothing".  But I get emails from PBS and I made the mistake of reading an interview with Eleanor Tomlinson which was very upsetting to me so I have to vent.  She thinks it is an accomplishment to have "created a character that people want to be unfaithful to the leading man".  She thinks Demelza deserved to have "a bit of fun" and her infidelity gave Ross that "kick he needed" as she was "constantly let down by Ross" etc. etc.  I want to scream at her.  It's one thing for her to think of infidelity as a bit of fun but to put that on Demelza is unbelievable.  How did they get Ross and Demelza so wrong?  The writer has to be the ultimate source.  What a short memory her Demelza has.   In Series 4 ET says Demelza has to "stick to her guns".  Oh no, wish I could look forward to that.


 Little Henry

I feel as angry as you do. Eleanor Tomlinson has too much power and control in this production. She appears to have just grabbed it. I wonder how Aidan Turner feels about this. Together with Debbie Horsfield, she has strayed so far from the books that the characters are barely recognisable. Yet some people say it is a production that represents their perception of the stories and the characters as portrayed by Winston Graham. Clearly some people live on a different planet.

It doesn't feel like a true historical drama with Demelza behaving as if she lived in the present day. Thank goodness we have the books to retreat into for some sanity.



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I watched the finale in Canada on Sunday.  Hated so much of it but thought I would just "say nothing".  But I get emails from PBS and I made the mistake of reading an interview with Eleanor Tomlinson which was very upsetting to me so I have to vent.  She thinks it is an accomplishment to have "created a character that people want to be unfaithful to the leading man".  She thinks Demelza deserved to have "a bit of fun" and her infidelity gave Ross that "kick he needed" as she was "constantly let down by Ross" etc. etc.  I want to scream at her.  It's one thing for her to think of infidelity as a bit of fun but to put that on Demelza is unbelievable.  How did they get Ross and Demelza so wrong?  The writer has to be the ultimate source.  What a short memory her Demelza has.   In Series 4 ET says Demelza has to "stick to her guns".  Oh no, wish I could look forward to that.



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I've just been watching The Handmaid's Tale. Now _that's_ the way to do an adaptation.

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Fijane wrote:
As an antidote, I intend to go back and just watch the first series, and maybe a little of the second - to cleanse my palate and go back to the way I felt back then.

I like the way you put that: "cleanse my palate."  The first series was different, wasn't it?  DH didn't stray as much from the the essence of the characters. She promised she would remain true to the books, and we believed her; we were more innocent then.  I've only watched bits of this new series and what I've seen and read here has convinced me to wait.  This book-to-TV translation makes me think of Prince of Tides, which was book-to-film.  I read the book first and while Barbara Streisand could in no way include even 10% of the action, the essence of the characters remained true.  I love the book and the movie.  So it can be done.



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Stella, I agree with you about Heida. I think that Jack is bringing out possibly the best of her acting ability, but most of the rest of the time she is quite immobile.

Now that Poldark is finished, I am catching up on Outlander, and I have to say that the difference in the acting skills, dialogue, and authenticity of the crowd scenes is very startling.



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Fijane wrote:

Well, that is the end of Series 3 for us here in Australia. And like many of you I am glad, because I am weary of the cycle of hope, then disappointment each week.

In thinking about this last episode, I have realised that if all the Demelza, Prudie, and Hugh scenes were cut, I would have quite liked it. Both Demelza and Prudie are just appalling in this episode (I didn't think Demelza could get worse, but...) and I now find Demelza to be so obnoxious and Prudie is just a nasty-minded snitch, I don't want to see either of them on screen anymore.

 Fijane - I agree with you about Demelza and Prudie and it is down to DH to write good lines for them. As she writes more she seems to get ever more slapdash.

I am surprised that there has been no mention in this thread about the amazing performance of Jack Farthing, and ably supported by Heida Reed. I was mesmorised by the "oath" scene, and George's obvious devastation from the jealousy and his love for Elizabeth. In my opinion, one of the premier scenes of the whole three series. (Of course, all the best done scenes have been lifted almost verbatim from the books).

I agree about Jack Farthing's acting but I do not think Heida can act very well. She found her voice with the scripts she was given in this episode and it is the best acting we've seen from her. She has been somewhat robotic I think.

They switched the timeline of Drake's story around, and I can't see the necessity of that. Why burn the smithy now, when it is quite important for it to burn later while Drake is away in St Margarets.

Ossie, Morwenna, Rowella and Arthur was also well done, although once again the subtleties were skipped and Rowella's scheming motives are laid bare from the start. I would have liked to see Arthur looking more nervous and less assertive, and I don't think it would have hurt to hint about Rowella having to contantly keep him buoyed up. I don't like Morwenna showing affection for Conan - it will make her later actions look wrong. And of course her little trip to watch Drake working was ridiculous.

Re the French invasion that-never-was: DH took a side issue of Ross going off (to distant parts) to train militia groups and turned it into a really huge deal. I can sort of see why she wanted to do that, but it seemed a very elaborate scheme just to make Ross change his mind about parliament. And once again, they couldn't find enough extras to make the scenes convincing. Very amateur all around.

Couldn't agree more with this last point. It was all very confusing and made no sense to me.

Personally, I think Ross's real reason for accepting Lord Falmouth is more compelling. He clearly states (later) the difficulty of explaining that when the first offer came he was content at home and secure with Demelza, whereas later he was not. He had good reason to suspect Demelza had cheated, and everything (personally) had changed. Again, probably too nuanced for DH to cope with.

I agree with this point but wonder how DH could have explained Ross's feeling of wanting to put distance between himself and Demelza. I think this is quite difficult to convey in a drama. It would need Ross to explain his reasons to someone other than Demelza but he would have felt disloyal. Fijane - do you have any ideas how this could be done? Perhaps series two of the 1970s version may help here.

To sum up, a reasonable episode if you can eliminate Demelza, with an excellent continuance of George and Elizabeth's tribulations.

This episode was better than many this series.


 



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Well, that is the end of Series 3 for us here in Australia. And like many of you I am glad, because I am weary of the cycle of hope, then disappointment each week.

In thinking about this last episode, I have realised that if all the Demelza, Prudie, and Hugh scenes were cut, I would have quite liked it. Both Demelza and Prudie are just appalling in this episode (I didn't think Demelza could get worse, but...) and I now find Demelza to be so obnoxious and Prudie is just a nasty-minded snitch, I don't want to see either of them on screen anymore. As an antidote, I intend to go back and just watch the first series, and maybe a little of the second - to cleanse my palate and go back to the way I felt back then.

I am surprised that there has been no mention in this thread about the amazing performance of Jack Farthing, and ably supported by Heida Reed. I was mesmorised by the "oath" scene, and George's obvious devastation from the jealousy and his love for Elizabeth. In my opinion, one of the premier scenes of the whole three series. (Of course, all the best done scenes have been lifted almost verbatim from the books).

They switched the timeline of Drake's story around, and I can't see the necessity of that. Why burn the smithy now, when it is quite important for it to burn later while Drake is away in St Margarets.

Ossie, Morwenna, Rowella and Arthur was also well done, although once again the subtleties were skipped and Rowella's scheming motives are laid bare from the start. I would have liked to see Arthur looking more nervous and less assertive, and I don't think it would have hurt to hint about Rowella having to contantly keep him buoyed up. I don't like Morwenna showing affection for Conan - it will make her later actions look wrong. And of course her little trip to watch Drake working was ridiculous.

Re the French invasion that-never-was: DH took a side issue of Ross going off (to distant parts) to train militia groups and turned it into a really huge deal. I can sort of see why she wanted to do that, but it seemed a very elaborate scheme just to make Ross change his mind about parliament. And once again, they couldn't find enough extras to make the scenes convincing. Very amateur all around.

Personally, I think Ross's real reason for accepting Lord Falmouth is more compelling. He clearly states (later) the difficulty of explaining that when the first offer came he was content at home and secure with Demelza, whereas later he was not. He had good reason to suspect Demelza had cheated, and everything (personally) had changed. Again, probably too nuanced for DH to cope with.

To sum up, a reasonable episode if you can eliminate Demelza, with an excellent continuance of George and Elizabeth's tribulations.



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SusanneMcCarthy wrote:

The area above the high water mark belongs to whoever owns the adjacent land. The area between the high water mark and the low water mark belongs to the Queen (well, at that time it would have been King George III) So when the tide goes out, you can walk on the wet sand - the Queen gives her permission. 


We have a similar law here in California, but the land belongs to the people of the state. Some of the people who live in the adjacent absurdly expensive beachfront properties hate it, but never enough to move away. 



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Yes. And the swans - at least all the unmarked mute swans in open water. And the dolphins. But not a driving licence. (We're a weird country!)

 



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SusanneMcCarthy wrote:

The area above the high water mark belongs to whoever owns the adjacent land. The area between the high water mark and the low water mark belongs to the Queen (well, at that time it would have been King George III) So when the tide goes out, you can walk on the wet sand - the Queen gives her permission. 


 I have thought that Nampara Cove was considered part of the Nampara estate. Has the monarch always owned the beaches?

 



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The area above the high water mark belongs to whoever owns the adjacent land. The area between the high water mark and the low water mark belongs to the Queen (well, at that time it would have been King George III) So when the tide goes out, you can walk on the wet sand - the Queen gives her permission. 



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Interesting comment Dark Mare. I always assumed that Hendrawna was a public access beach since villagers fished there and uninhibitedly collected flotsam and jetsam and other beach treasures. But your post reminded me of a conversation Clowance had with Geoffrey Charles in The Loving Cup. Clowance, GC, and Amadora had ridden to the Dark Cliffs where Clowance had shown them the Holy Well. When they were riding back GC said to Clowance: 

"This is one thing we lack at Trenwith."  Clowance replied: " Well it's near enoough. you can ride over any time without consulting me." (98)

I never knew if Clowance was teasing or giving proprietary permission.

 



-- Edited by Hollyhock on Friday 11th of August 2017 02:35:03 PM

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Mrs Gimlett wrote
... Stella - Hendrawna is not Ross' land.  He owns Nampara Cove and the land down to Hendrawna, but not the beach itself. Nevertheless, George wouldn't have been there.  I cannot recall him (or Elizabeth) ever being on a beach.

If Hendrawna Beach is not Ross' land, who does it belong to? The Trenegloses? Who else has overland access to it? (Or was it something else that went to Charles as first-born, and the Trenwith Poldarks just didn't use it because they didn't swim?) 

Interesting you should say that about Elizabeth and George. There's a conversation between Demelza and Valentine in "Bella" about that very subject. Valentine made a comment about what a lovely family tableau Ross, Demelza and Harry on the beach made and Demelza at first thought he was being snide. He told her his parents had never taken him to the beach and rarely gave him permission to go. I wondered whether they were too fastidious to enjoy the sand or they didn't want anyone to notice their son's misshapen leg. Then it occurred to me that it could be they were reminded of Francis' death. Somehow I think it was just the sand. It's so messy.



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Thursday 10th of August 2017 11:15:32 PM



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Thursday 10th of August 2017 11:16:09 PM

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beguilingeyes wrote:

Some fool on Facebook has just said that the books are 'too long and bogged down in minutiae'. FFS! A lot of them skim through the historical detail and just look for the romance. I despair sometimes.


I am sure that for some people the books are too complex and nuanced. But even if they only skip to the romance, then I am not sure how they find the pages because they won't recognise Ross and Demelza as they know them.



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Some fool on Facebook has just said that the books are 'too long and bogged down in minutiae'. FFS! A lot of them skim through the historical detail and just look for the romance. I despair sometimes.

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Stella - I stay away from Poldark social media.  It's enough to know that our characters are unrecognizable; I think my head my explode if I had to read that people love love love the series.

Little Henry - Yes, DH is an expert at condensing books - just take everything meaningful out.

DH said in interviews before the first series aired that she hoped it would bring people to the books.  That's what happened to me, and I fell in love with the books.  Unfortunately, DH did not honor her commitment to stay true to the essence of the books.  I remember hearing her question the wisdom of something that was done in the 1970s series: "Now why would they do that?"  That's something I would like to ask her.



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Little Henry wrote:

 For what it's worth I emailed the BBC complaints department.  I think someone should know not everyone is happy. They apparently get 3000 complaints or comments a day though!  I have a feeling that the Graham family has approved all the scripts and only they would have any influence.  I'm trying to be done with my fuming and maybe now that the series is over it will be easier.  How strange for it to be a relief that it is over! I read that Season 5 will cover all the rest of the books, except they may leave out "Bella Poldark" entirely.  When asked how they could do it, someone said because Debbie Horsfield is an expert at condensing scenes or something like that.  And she is.  My husband and I are off to London and Cornwall in 3 weeks.  Our going there has nothing to do with Poldark whatsoever but will be nice to see the beautiful scenery.


Little Henry - I'd be grateful if you could send me the address of the BBC Complaints department - in a private message perhaps? Many of the Poldark filming sites are some of the most beautiful places in Cornwall. Botallack, Porthgwarra, Charlestown, Gwenapp Head and Penberth Cove to name but a few. I was there in July. I hope you have a good holiday.



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Wednesday 9th of August 2017 08:16:56 PM

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It's a testament to the story and the characters that even distorted terribly, they are popular, loved by many but hated too which doesn't happen if you read the books or watch the 1st series.  But maybe that's because back then we didn't have all the social media comments.  I try not to read them but sometimes I'm lured over and often regret it.  The new series is what brought me to the books as I was enthralled at first.  Just watched the Tholly/Ross showdown and it was riveting even as I was thinking how ridiculous it was that Tholly was teaching Ross life lessons.  I wonder if Ross will be allowed any wisdom at all by the time Henry is born?  I wrote to Debbie but didn't send it as it became so long.  For what it's worth I emailed the BBC complaints department.  I think someone should know not everyone is happy. They apparently get 3000 complaints or comments a day though!  I have a feeling that the Graham family has approved all the scripts and only they would have any influence.  I'm trying to be done with my fuming and maybe now that the series is over it will be easier.  How strange for it to be a relief that it is over! I read that Season 5 will cover all the rest of the books, except they may leave out "Bella Poldark" entirely.  When asked how they could do it, someone said because Debbie Horsfield is an expert at condensing scenes or something like that.  And she is.  My husband and I are off to London and Cornwall in 3 weeks.  Our going there has nothing to do with Poldark whatsoever but will be nice to see the beautiful scenery.



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Date: Aug 9 12:51 PM, 2017
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JanetMaison wrote:

This may sound strange, but I'm so grateful that everyone here dislikes (hates?) the series as much as I do. However or whenever we came to the books, the people here love Winston Graham's beautiful work.  That makes me feel not-so-alone. As Beguiling Eyes says, the characters on TV have the same names and sometimes they may even say WG's words, but they are not WG's beloved characters. They are DH's characters.


 Not strange at all Janet Maison. If you look on Facebook there is no comfort as most of them think the series wonderful. Without contact with like minded people one could lose the will to live! smile



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Wednesday 9th of August 2017 12:51:42 PM

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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Last night it was Holywell Bay doubling as Hendrawna, Stella.  I know those rocks anywhere. At least we can have the satisfaction of knowing Evil George, as he is being dubbed, would have had a huge amount of sand in his shoes, having traversed the sand hills... biggrin


 Mrs G - I, too, now recognise Holywell Bay having visited it for the first time in July. The picture you have created in my mind of George with a large amount of sand in his shoes has cheered me up (on a very wet day here in the South east) and made me laugh uncontrollably as has a vision of him struggling through the sandhills biggrin  - you couldn't make it up!!

 



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Wednesday 9th of August 2017 12:47:45 PM

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This may sound strange, but I'm so grateful that everyone here dislikes (hates?) the series as much as I do. However or whenever we came to the books, the people here love Winston Graham's beautiful work.  That makes me feel not-so-alone. As Beguiling Eyes says, the characters on TV have the same names and sometimes they may even say WG's words, but they are not WG's beloved characters. They are DH's characters.



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Last night it was Holywell Bay doubling as Hendrawna, Stella.  I know those rocks anywhere. At least we can have the satisfaction of knowing Evil George, as he is being dubbed, would have had a huge amount of sand in his shoes, having traversed the sand hills... biggrin



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A belated warm welcome to the forum Little Henry things having been just a tad busy today ! Loads of topics to choose from down the years so I'm sure you'll soon settle down into our special WG world....

Ross aww



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Little Henry wrote:

Thank you so much for the welcome.  I can't believe how incensed I became over the malicious treatment of Ross and needed to vent my outrage.  Thank heavens I'm not the only one to see and feel the unfairness of this.  I'm from Canada so don't see any British newspapers but I saw an article from the Express which quoted one of Ross's ugly utterances and I emailed them a response.  I don't know if that was even the way to write to the editor so I really don't have an "address".  You British people would have better access to newspapers and where to write.  I have to confess I wrote to both Aidan Turner and Eleanor Tomlinson about their characters and about caring about their "real" characters.  When all is said and done the book characters are the ones that matter most.  Aidan Turner's description of Ross as a "grumpy --" spurred me on to that.  I also want to say that I love both Aidan Turner and Eleanor Tomlinson in their parts but of course the writing has spoiled what could have been such a wonderful thing.

In another article Debbie Horsfield explained that Demelza was not a revengeful person, which of course is true.  Am I wrong or did not the last 3 episodes lead up to a revengeful and blaming Ross Demelza?


 Many of us here feel as you do, Little Henry. furious  I shall have to find a way of getting a letter to Debbie Horsfield, the script writer although she has already written the scripts for the next series. If anyone here has an address for either DH or Mammoth please let me know.

There is much comfort to be had in the books, and no production, however good, can tell a story as well as Winston Graham. It is lovely to be able to see these characters in their setting in Cornwall. If we ignore the scripts perhaps we can just enjoy the visual aspects. smile

I read somewhere that DH writes in a formulaic way with a list of things she has to include in each episode and then writes the scripts around that. I'm sure that really good writers don't work like that.



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Thank you so much for the welcome.  I can't believe how incensed I became over the malicious treatment of Ross and needed to vent my outrage.  Thank heavens I'm not the only one to see and feel the unfairness of this.  I'm from Canada so don't see any British newspapers but I saw an article from the Express which quoted one of Ross's ugly utterances and I emailed them a response.  I don't know if that was even the way to write to the editor so I really don't have an "address".  You British people would have better access to newspapers and where to write.  I have to confess I wrote to both Aidan Turner and Eleanor Tomlinson about their characters and about caring about their "real" characters.  When all is said and done the book characters are the ones that matter most.  Aidan Turner's description of Ross as a "grumpy --" spurred me on to that.  I also want to say that I love both Aidan Turner and Eleanor Tomlinson in their parts but of course the writing has spoiled what could have been such a wonderful thing.

In another article Debbie Horsfield explained that Demelza was not a revengeful person, which of course is true.  Am I wrong or did not the last 3 episodes lead up to a revengeful and blaming Ross Demelza?



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The link below gives us some idea of what to expect in series 4. It is not encouraging - just more of the same and it seems we have not yet seen the last of Hugh Armitage - sadly.

http://www.radiotimes.com/amp/news/2017-08-06/poldark-series-four-likely-to-air-in-early-summer-2018



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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

 



 Of course, Stella, that Hendrawna is not Poldark land means nothing to DH.  She is showing less respect for WG with each episode.  The newspaper reviews are all pro the series, but I suspect they don't know the real story. Someone only has to strip their shirt off to excite the reviewers.

The best of all the series so far; the scenery, closely followed by the opening music.  I am extremely lucky to see the scenery whenever I wish to. Last evening it occurred to me that apart from one at Pally's shop, no horse was ridden in the final episode, despite the many miles covered in seconds...  Am I correct?



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Tuesday 8th of August 2017 05:41:01 PM

Mrs G - Yes you are correct. There were the horses pulling George's carriage but none that anyone was riding. Perhaps the horses had returned to Yorkshire and thereby saved Mammoth some money.

Is it my imagination or have we had several different Hendrawna beaches across the three series? I find this confusing. We have had Porthgwarra and Kynance Cove both used as Nampara Cove.


 



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I've been calling it Poldark For Dummies. No nuance or subtlety, everything hammered home with no imagination. And what have they done with wonderful Caroline..she's become bland and dull.



-- Edited by beguilingeyes on Tuesday 8th of August 2017 08:20:41 PM

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I've pinched this comment from another site because it says what I feel about the recent episodes. The charaters have the same names as the people I love but I don't recognise anything else about them. The showdown with Tholly and the villagers was laughable.

'Last night I re-watched the 1977 Episodes 6 & 7 in the light of Sarah Griggs's comment that in the first weeks of the filming Graham was still writing The Angry Tide. Looking at the dates, he also wrote The Four Swans after the filming of the 1975-76 first season. That means he knew the actors who would play these roles and so he would tailor or think and dream of them specifically as he developed roles and scenes. This accounts for some of the real nuanced perfection of some of the sequences.He had Judy Geeson in mind as he wrote Caroline, Ellis in mind as he wrote Ross. He had become very friendly with Angharad and far from seeing her as playing a role as a sex kitten, which was his first early response to the first couple of episodes of that first year, he saw what kinds of personal depths she could bring to a role. I also compared dialogue and as in the first and second season just can't get over how much more content they got into the 1970s -- it's 10 minutes shorter and yet far more real content (they do discuss politics, we do learn Bassett is for Pitt, why Ross is against Pitt, and that Ross has justice on his side not wanting to to back this gov't stance). And how much more nuanced: in the 1970s Demelza asks Ross is he is altogether happy and he does not reply; he asks her if Armitage affects her, and she quietly allows this is so; in 2017 he produces a screed of how much he loves Elizabeth; no inbetween slow development; she is screaming at him that if he won't go for the position offered she knows she prefers another to him. Each turn of dialogue is at the top of a range of emotion suddenly reached for in the recent one, where there older one there is nuance, development, qualification, adult emotions. Even Whitworth is not treated as a kind of gross monster, but as voyeur, hypocrite, libidinous and arrogant man, a bully, unscrupulous; in short a reprehensible human being, not a cartoon character. George's jealousy is primary and Elizabeth gets what he is feeling (as in life) without his having to spell it out. Most important Graham was on the sets and had written two of the books with this iteration in mind.'

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JanetMaison wrote:

Being in the U.S., I've only watched bits on YouTube and read your posts. It seems as though DH has certain markers or bullet points she can tick off:  Ross and Demelza get married, Julia is born, Julia dies, Ross at trial, case dismissed, Francis dies, Ross has sex with Elizabeth, Demelza and Ross are estranged, then make up, another baby, Hugh, etc. - and DH appears to make up everything in between those bullet points, abandoning all the things we readers love about the books: complex characters, R&D's relationship. 


What we got in episode nine, and generally throughout the series was the equivalent of 'sound bites' - call them book bites or text bites - thrown in to satisfy the idea of an adaptation of the novel or novels. To be fair, most of the other modern TV and film adaptations do exactly the same. The rest was there to keep the audience's attention for sixty minutes which seemingly has to include:-

a) people shouting and running about excitedly

b) violence

c) action sequences with fighting - some in slow motion

d) quick fire cutting remarks and conversations (based on the Eastenders model)

e) love and sex (not always at the same time)

f) comedy (most of this was unintended in episode 9 - but it made me laugh)

 

Following on from modernpoldark's list here are some more ridiculous scenes/occurrences in episode 9 :-

1. Prudie further developing her role as a relationship guidance counsellor and Demelza following her advice.

2. Dwight giving Hugh the bad news about his eyes then advising him about his relationship with Demelza.

3. Ross, for the umpteenth time, telling Demelza to go and find another (man.)

4. Demelza confronting Ross about the graveyard kiss, then going to see Hugh instead of staying to care for her badly beaten brother. 

5. Ross meekly going to bed when Demelza goes missing.

6. Demelza almost deciding not to go back to Nampara!

As Victor Meldrew would say, 'Unbelievable!'

The sadness for me is that the millions of viewers who have not read the books are being given distorted images of the characters and an overall picture which is very little like the world that Winston Graham created.

I agree with Stella that the locations are great. That patch of grass on top of the cliff where R and D stand and look out to sea must have worn very thin by now.

 

 

 



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Little Henry wrote:

I saw in a newspaper article highlighted, a quote from "Ross Poldark" and it was one of the nasty things he said in the series.  They were illustrating how awful Ross had become.  I wrote a letter to the editor saying it should be made very clear that NONE of the mean, nasty, malicious, stinging and somewhat stupid things that Ross says to Demelza in episodes 7, 8 and 9 were written by Winston Graham as he wrote his characters with love, flaws and all.  Aidan Turner said them and Debbie Horsfield wrote them.  I also wrote that his character was totally changed and that in the book he DID dance with Demelza.  My letter probably won't be published but I think more people should write to defend the writing of Winston Graham.

At the beginning of one episode Emma was introduced as Tholly's daughter.  So many details are wrong in the series but that is inevitable - I mostly care about the skewering of Ross and Demelza.


 Welcome Little Henry - Your post is very interesting and I would love to write along similar lines to your letter. Have you an address I can write to please?



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Stella Poldark wrote:

 Mrs G - Thank you for clarifying Hendrawna beach.

In the past Aidan has said he wouldn't want to play an older Ross. Eleanor Tomlinson clearly had her own views about Demelza's character. It does appear that these two actors have been pandered to at the expense of the books. Aidan I imagine has not read beyond the first two books but Eleanor claims she has read them as the work has gone along. I agree with you that DH will continue to go her own way and the audience figures will probably allow her to do that. I feel as you do about a lost opportunity and I, too, have no hope of being around to see another production. If I had a name at the BBC I would write a letter about this.

There always will be comfort in the books but it is lovely to have a visual perspective and, on a positive note, I think the filming sites have been wonderful and have, at times, saved this production to some extent.

 


 Of course, Stella, that Hendrawna is not Poldark land means nothing to DH.  She is showing less respect for WG with each episode.  The newspaper reviews are all pro the series, but I suspect they don't know the real story. Someone only has to strip their shirt off to excite the reviewers.

The best of all the series so far; the scenery, closely followed by the opening music.  I am extremely lucky to see the scenery whenever I wish to. Last evening it occurred to me that apart from one at Pally's shop, no horse was ridden in the final episode, despite the many miles covered in seconds...  Am I correct?



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Tuesday 8th of August 2017 05:41:01 PM

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Please forgive me for not welcoming you, Little Henry.  I believe you were born at a very opportune time in the books.  A stable, prosperous family, with loving siblings...and wise parents.

We hope you enjoy discussing these fascinating books, LH.

 

All at Nampara biggrin



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I saw in a newspaper article highlighted, a quote from "Ross Poldark" and it was one of the nasty things he said in the series.  They were illustrating how awful Ross had become.  I wrote a letter to the editor saying it should be made very clear that NONE of the mean, nasty, malicious, stinging and somewhat stupid things that Ross says to Demelza in episodes 7, 8 and 9 were written by Winston Graham as he wrote his characters with love, flaws and all.  Aidan Turner said them and Debbie Horsfield wrote them.  I also wrote that his character was totally changed and that in the book he DID dance with Demelza.  My letter probably won't be published but I think more people should write to defend the writing of Winston Graham.

At the beginning of one episode Emma was introduced as Tholly's daughter.  So many details are wrong in the series but that is inevitable - I mostly care about the skewering of Ross and Demelza.



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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Everyone was acting out of character last night.

 

Most alarming is DH who is now talking about Poldark, the Musical! Heaven forfend.

Aidan Turner is quoted as saying anything beyond a fifth series and they would be running out of things to do! Has he read any of the books do you think?  I seem to remember a huge amount happening between Angry Tide and Bella Poldark.

I think these episodes are so loosely based on the books now, that DH is likely to abandon any original plot lines and go her own way.

The maddening thing is, we waited 40 years after the first adaptation, hopeful of a really good faithful interpretation and now it will be a further few decades before another attempt is made, if ever.  I shall be going to my 'long lie' * well before that.

* A Jud-ism 

Stella - Hendrawna is not Ross' land.  He owns Nampara Cove and the land down to Hendrawna, but not the beach itself. Nevertheless, George wouldn't have been there.  I cannot recall him (or Elizabeth) ever being on a beach.



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Monday 7th of August 2017 10:23:57 PM




 Mrs G - Thank you for clarifying Hendrawna beach.

In the past Aidan has said he wouldn't want to play an older Ross. Eleanor Tomlinson clearly had her own views about Demelza's character. It does appear that these two actors have been pandered to at the expense of the books. Aidan I imagine has not read beyond the first two books but Eleanor claims she has read them as the work has gone along. I agree with you that DH will continue to go her own way and the audience figures will probably allow her to do that. I feel as you do about a lost opportunity and I, too, have no hope of being around to see another production. If I had a name at the BBC I would write a letter about this.

There always will be comfort in the books but it is lovely to have a visual perspective and, on a positive note, I think the filming sites have been wonderful and have, at times, saved this production to some extent.



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