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Post Info TOPIC: Series 3 Episode 9


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Date: Dec 2 12:32 PM, 2017
RE: Series 3 Episode 9
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Little Henry wrote:

I thought I should report that I didn't get very far with the BBC with my complaint.  I didn't provide enough "detail to allow us to identify where the comments in question originated".  The moment has passed for me and I don't want to give it more time so I'm leaving it at that.  This series is on a train that won't stop and has been from the start.  My mind went back to my first impression of Demelza when she and Ross first met and she yelled "Don't call me child, mister" or something like that.  I remember asking why she would yell at a man who was helping her "and her little dog too".  And I'm still asking "why is she yelling at him"?  That's her character, to me ungrateful wretch, but to her probably, feisty.  To be positive, she has had some good moments too, usually when following the book character.


 Little Henry  - this is disappointing but helpful to me if I decide to write myself. It seems they want the series number,  episode number and the scene which would involve writing a mini thesis! I have thought of focusing on the contradictions e.g. DH saying that Demelza going off with Hugh to the beach was not revenge yet it directly followed Prudie's tale of Ross and Elizabeth in the church. I will Private message you. 



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I thought I should report that I didn't get very far with the BBC with my complaint.  I didn't provide enough "detail to allow us to identify where the comments in question originated".  The moment has passed for me and I don't want to give it more time so I'm leaving it at that.  This series is on a train that won't stop and has been from the start.  My mind went back to my first impression of Demelza when she and Ross first met and she yelled "Don't call me child, mister" or something like that.  I remember asking why she would yell at a man who was helping her "and her little dog too".  And I'm still asking "why is she yelling at him"?  That's her character, to me ungrateful wretch, but to her probably, feisty.  To be positive, she has had some good moments too, usually when following the book character.



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Stella Poldark wrote:
 Dark Mare - Your point is valid but that doesn't alter the fact that the absence of the Gimletts and their replacement by Prudie is used yet again for more distortions of the story and the characters. It would have been possible to give Prudie a much lower profile and keep her firmly in the category of 'servant'. DH decided to make her Demelza's friend and companion. The result has been, as has been pointed out by others, that instead of calming down Demelza when necessary, Prudie is used to wind her up. This has taken the series much further away from the books.

Except she wouldn't have been Prudie if she suddenly became a dutiful servant. Beatie Edney has a bit of a following here in America thanks to "Poldark Dish," an online series carried on the LA-based Anglophile Channel, and the show purportedly has acquired some fans among the "Poldark" production staff. (The "Poldark Dish" ladies were invited to the set to shoot interviews with various cast members -- including Caroline Blakiston on the day she filmed Agatha's death scene -- and were given roles as extras in one of George's courtroom scenes.) I don't know whether that had anything to do with Prudie being given a bigger role, but maybe it did.

I do agree that making Prudie a provocateur was a mistake. It just doesn't square with Season 2, when she was trying to talk Demelza out of attempting to get even with Ross. From Season 2 to Season 3, Prudie regresses from Demelza's surrogate mother to her smart-mouthed bestie.



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Dark Mare wrote:
Moorland Rambler wrote:

However, in the series, by retaining Prudie and not introducing the Gimletts, the household dynamics at Nampara have been changed completely. Instead of discreet and efficient service from the Gimletts who wouldn't dream of interfering in their employers' personal affairs, we have had to endure Prudie as a confidante of Demelza and, to a certain extent, antagonist of Ross.

It is this that has created the 'bickering' environment at Nampara that just doesn't exist in any of the books. You see it a lot in soap operas but not in quality drama.


 That is true, but she had to keep Jud and Prudie for the second season because they had roles to play in the story, and the Gimletts were practically invisible by comparison. By keeping them at Nampara, the producers didn't have to build another set and they saved the price of two actors (John and Joan). My point is if Graham had done justice by the Gimletts, they would have been included in the series. He probably wrote more words about Ross' chair than he did about them.


 Dark Mare - Your point is valid but that doesn't alter the fact that the absence of the Gimletts and their replacement by Prudie is used yet again for more distortions of the story and the characters. It would have been possible to give Prudie a much lower profile and keep her firmly in the category of 'servant'. DH decided to make her Demelza's friend and companion. The result has been, as has been pointed out by others, that instead of calming down Demelza when necessary, Prudie is used to wind her up. This has taken the series much further away from the books.



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Date: Nov 30 8:33 PM, 2017
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Moorland Rambler wrote:

However, in the series, by retaining Prudie and not introducing the Gimletts, the household dynamics at Nampara have been changed completely. Instead of discreet and efficient service from the Gimletts who wouldn't dream of interfering in their employers' personal affairs, we have had to endure Prudie as a confidante of Demelza and, to a certain extent, antagonist of Ross.

It is this that has created the 'bickering' environment at Nampara that just doesn't exist in any of the books. You see it a lot in soap operas but not in quality drama.


 That is true, but she had to keep Jud and Prudie for the second season because they had roles to play in the story, and the Gimletts were practically invisible by comparison. By keeping them at Nampara, the producers didn't have to build another set and they saved the price of two actors (John and Joan). My point is if Graham had done justice by the Gimletts, they would have been included in the series. He probably wrote more words about Ross' chair than he did about them.



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However, in the series, by retaining Prudie and not introducing the Gimletts, the household dynamics at Nampara have been changed completely. Instead of discreet and efficient service from the Gimletts who wouldn't dream of interfering in their employers' personal affairs, we have had to endure Prudie as a confidante of Demelza and, to a certain extent, antagonist of Ross.

It is this that has created the 'bickering' environment at Nampara that just doesn't exist in any of the books. You see it a lot in soap operas but not in quality drama.



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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Of course I was only being flippant and trying to raise the profile of that wonderful couple!

Actually, in the books, they are central to the story.  Not only do they begin by scouring Nampara and keeping it wholesome, tidy and well provisioned, they also help to nurse Demelza through her diphtheria.  Who knows what would have happened had it been Jud and Prudie!  Later on, without their unassuming loyalty and hard work, Ross would never have been able to go to London.  Gimlett was left in charge overall - especially when R&D went off to Paris - and they quietly went about their work without complaint  (in the early days without even payment). They were worth their weight in gold.  Ross realises this from time to time and WG includes some appreciation of them in Ross' thoughts. But, like most of us who grow accustomed to people who are around all the time, I don't think he ever quite realised how important they were.

What a couple! 

Humbly, Mrs Gimlett


The Gimletts were excellent servants who deserved better from Winston Graham. He made them little more than props. Yes, good servants are supposed to be discreet, know their place, keep their opinions to themselves and not take sides, but it is difficult to accept that an employer like Demelza, who blurred the lines between employer and employee both by pitching in wherever she was needed and by being uncomfortable with the whole notion of being served, would not have a closer  relationship with Jane Gimlett at least. They spent hours cooking together each day for years. But there are no scenes that give us a sense of anything approaching a friendship.

I suspect Debbie Horsfield kept Prudie and Jud around for the second series because it was too hard to believe that two good people, like the Gimletts, could watch someone as affable as Demelza go through all that trouble with Ross without being bothered by it. But there was nothing in the books to support that. Prudie's affection for Demelza was already established in the first two books, and she and Jud had no trouble speaking their minds to Ross. 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Thursday 30th of November 2017 10:30:37 AM

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Of course I was only being flippant and trying to raise the profile of that wonderful couple!

Actually, in the books, they are central to the story.  Not only do they begin by scouring Nampara and keeping it wholesome, tidy and well provisioned, they also help to nurse Demelza through her diphtheria.  Who knows what would have happened had it been Jud and Prudie!  Later on, without their unassuming loyalty and hard work, Ross would never have been able to go to London.  Gimlett was left in charge overall - especially when R&D went off to Paris - and they quietly went about their work without complaint  (in the early days without even payment). They were worth their weight in gold.  Ross realises this from time to time and WG includes some appreciation of them in Ross' thoughts. But, like most of us who grow accustomed to people who are around all the time, I don't think he ever quite realised how important they were.

What a couple! 

Humbly, Mrs Gimlett



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Ooouu you are so wicked Hollyhock. However, I think you are so correct in your imaginative assessment of D.H. and her world of TVland. 



-- Edited by Dave on Wednesday 29th of November 2017 09:01:18 PM

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The series would definitely have benefited from the responsible and dignified presence of the Gimletts. But my FEAR is that under DH's hatchet the couple would have undergone complete character changes. Would she have turned John into a Peeping-Tom-French-Collaborator and Jane into a village gossipmonger and blackmailer? I shudder imagining DH's re-do of this loyal couple, all in the name of ratings.  



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Of course, the Gimlett's would have made more sense. However, the economics, schedule and general production complications probably forbade it. I can forgive them or give the TV production some leeway here but they have wandered so far from the original story they must be admonished about that.



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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

I have said all along the Gimlett's should have been cast!!


Mrs G - They should have been cast and I have agreed with you all along about this. It would have made all the difference and might even have calmed Demelza and prevented all her rants! smile



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I have said all along the Gimlett's should have been cast!!



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I will watch. Iāll have to. Couldnāt bear for it to air and not be a part of it but this next series I will moderate my expectations to avoid being badly disappointed and frustrated. Last season I got so upset, screaming at the TV week after week. I chewed it over with friends and ended up feeling so guilty because of my negativity towards something I had previously loved. This time I will go into it knowing that itās going to be impossible ( and most unlikely, given recent scriptwriting for R and D) to portray so many crucial scenes on which the crux of their relationship and future story events rest with any integrity. So Iāll sip my wine and try to rise above it, preferring to return to the books for my fix of the real Poldark marriage. The other thing I feel has been missing too has been the humour. Jud has been written out and without her comedic counterpart, Prudieās transformed into someone very different from the original and not nearly as likeable.

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Stella - I didn't express myself very well.

I will be recording the series, then hiding behind the sofa with ear plugs at the ready when I watch it.

What I meant to say was that particular scenes tend to turn out worse than I expected.

The signs are not good that series four will be any better than series three unless the emphasis turns back to staying as closely as possible to what was actually written in the final part of The Four Swans and the whole of The Angry Tide.

 



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Moorland Rambler wrote:
Nampara breeze wrote:

The Angry Tide is my very favourite of all the Poldark books and I dread to think what may be done to the original characters, having cringed and squirmed my way through season 3. I felt that the portrayal seen on screen reduced Ross and Demelzaās relationship to a series of petulant spats which degraded the characters and a relationship which has been beautifully described by WG. The original Demelza did not and never would have spoken in such a disrespectful way to her husband. Winston Grahamās characterisation of all those involved in the books was thankfully, historically accurate. Otherwise why bother setting the story in that period if you then impose modern actions and values on the characters? The comments made by the screenwriter and some of the actors involved have left me disillusioned and fearful that what is currently being filmed, will turn into a hatchet job on a much loved story and will be a pale reflection of the passionate, loving and mutually respectful fictional marriage created so cleverly by the author.


 I wonder if ET and DH are fans of 'Love Island' and have been indulging in too much of that 'reality' show recently. The first question the couples generally ask each other (to break the ice) is 'Did you cheat on your last girlfriend/boyfriend?' then they have a laugh and a joke about it. Maybe that's why the HA 'bit of fun' storyline went as it did.

To be a bit more serious, when they receive the first letter about Hugh's illness, I will be very surprised if Demelza questions Ross about the propriety of visiting Hugh without him as well as thanking Ross for his permission to go with Caroline as a 'chaperone.' This is far too eighteenth century for series four.

At first I thought they might cut that bit altogether but then they will have to give Hugh a chance to boast about his conquest and Demelza will probably sit there with a smug look on her face.

Yes, it is nightmarish to imagine but most of the nightmares I have imagined so far have not been as bad as what was actually screened.

 


Nampara Breeze - I too love The Angry Tide. It 's up there with the first 4 books. Like you I dread series 4.

Moorland Rambler - I hope you are right about series 4 being not as bad as we fear but I think, as we get nearer to the end of the 5 series, it will get worse as DH has nothing to lose and ET, it seems, doesn't care what the viewers and book readers think. I am tempted to follow Mrs G and not watch.

 



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Nampara breeze wrote:

The Angry Tide is my very favourite of all the Poldark books and I dread to think what may be done to the original characters, having cringed and squirmed my way through season 3. I felt that the portrayal seen on screen reduced Ross and Demelzaās relationship to a series of petulant spats which degraded the characters and a relationship which has been beautifully described by WG. The original Demelza did not and never would have spoken in such a disrespectful way to her husband. Winston Grahamās characterisation of all those involved in the books was thankfully, historically accurate. Otherwise why bother setting the story in that period if you then impose modern actions and values on the characters? The comments made by the screenwriter and some of the actors involved have left me disillusioned and fearful that what is currently being filmed, will turn into a hatchet job on a much loved story and will be a pale reflection of the passionate, loving and mutually respectful fictional marriage created so cleverly by the author.


 I wonder if ET and DH are fans of 'Love Island' and have been indulging in too much of that 'reality' show recently. The first question the couples generally ask each other (to break the ice) is 'Did you cheat on your last girlfriend/boyfriend?' then they have a laugh and a joke about it. Maybe that's why the HA 'bit of fun' storyline went as it did.

To be a bit more serious, when they receive the first letter about Hugh's illness, I will be very surprised if Demelza questions Ross about the propriety of visiting Hugh without him as well as thanking Ross for his permission to go with Caroline as a 'chaperone.' This is far too eighteenth century for series four.

At first I thought they might cut that bit altogether but then they will have to give Hugh a chance to boast about his conquest and Demelza will probably sit there with a smug look on her face.

Yes, it is nightmarish to imagine but most of the nightmares I have imagined so far have not been as bad as what was actually screened.

 



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Well done my feelings exactly. Sad.



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The Angry Tide is my very favourite of all the Poldark books and I dread to think what may be done to the original characters, having cringed and squirmed my way through season 3. I felt that the portrayal seen on screen reduced Ross and Demelzaās relationship to a series of petulant spats which degraded the characters and a relationship which has been beautifully described by WG. The original Demelza did not and never would have spoken in such a disrespectful way to her husband. Winston Grahamās characterisation of all those involved in the books was thankfully, historically accurate. Otherwise why bother setting the story in that period if you then impose modern actions and values on the characters? The comments made by the screenwriter and some of the actors involved have left me disillusioned and fearful that what is currently being filmed, will turn into a hatchet job on a much loved story and will be a pale reflection of the passionate, loving and mutually respectful fictional marriage created so cleverly by the author.

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Whatever happens in the next series I shall not be bothering to switch on to find out.  Since the end of the first series it has been downhill all the way.

What is Andrew Graham thinking of - to allow such horrors to happen?

 

Give me the books any day. You cannot go wrong with the originals.  biggrin

Mrs G

 



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Little Henry wrote:

It's been there from the start.  In the first season DH said a few times that Ross was not a hero ("We have never called him a hero").  On the DVD she notes "We can't make him look too stupid".  In the 2nd series of course Demelza is wronged but she abuses Ross physically, emotionally and spiritually with venom.  And of course in this season Ross drops from anti-hero to villain, more villainous than George because he hurts Demelza.  What kind of woman could write a line like "Not everyone in Cornwall is besotted by you" for a husband to say to his loved wife. So many more examples where the loveliness of their conversations, even when they disagree, becomes ugliness.  A few kisses on the cliff and a hug in bed are put in so that we won't think Ross is too bad.  I always wondered why she wanted Ross to be disliked but I see it now - to show that women will not put up with bad behaviour from a man.  So what if in this case it's mostly made up and she's using another author's story to do it.  Yes, I'm  scared for the next season as I pray that ET was not using words from the script in her interviews.  I don't know where I heard it or if I made it up but the quote has always stayed with me regarding other "feminist" works:  "Men are idiots and women can do no wrong."  I don't believe true feminism should be like this and I don't know what this branch is called.  I wrote to the BBC and to Mammoth Screen with my small protest as to Demelza's character - I just thought someone should stand up for WG's Demelza.


 Little Henry - I hope you will let us know if you get a reply from the BBC. I would be very interested to read their comments.



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Moreland Rambler wrote:

______________________________________________________________

It seems that the basic premises of the series' executive production team (which now must be DH and ET) is to make sure that Demelza is never shown in a bad light, never makes mistakes and whatever she does is right, no matter how perverse, immoral, deceitful, disloyal and untrustworthy her actions seem to be. 

I am sure this will continue in series 4 with their depiction of 'The Angry Tide' when (for example) it will be right for her to have no empathy and show no remorse for how Ross is feeling after the HA affair, right to act like a teenage debutante in London society, right to encourage the company of Monk Adderley and right to wash her hands of all responsibility for the duel and its outcome. 

I would like to believe that this won't happen, but, in a superficial screenwriting way, it is much easier to blame Ross in 'The Angry Tide' than in 'The Four Swans' and look what they did there!

____________________________________________________________

 

Moreland Rambler--I agree with all you say. 



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It's been there from the start.  In the first season DH said a few times that Ross was not a hero ("We have never called him a hero").  On the DVD she notes "We can't make him look too stupid".  In the 2nd series of course Demelza is wronged but she abuses Ross physically, emotionally and spiritually with venom.  And of course in this season Ross drops from anti-hero to villain, more villainous than George because he hurts Demelza.  What kind of woman could write a line like "Not everyone in Cornwall is besotted by you" for a husband to say to his loved wife. So many more examples where the loveliness of their conversations, even when they disagree, becomes ugliness.  A few kisses on the cliff and a hug in bed are put in so that we won't think Ross is too bad.  I always wondered why she wanted Ross to be disliked but I see it now - to show that women will not put up with bad behaviour from a man.  So what if in this case it's mostly made up and she's using another author's story to do it.  Yes, I'm  scared for the next season as I pray that ET was not using words from the script in her interviews.  I don't know where I heard it or if I made it up but the quote has always stayed with me regarding other "feminist" works:  "Men are idiots and women can do no wrong."  I don't believe true feminism should be like this and I don't know what this branch is called.  I wrote to the BBC and to Mammoth Screen with my small protest as to Demelza's character - I just thought someone should stand up for WG's Demelza.



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Brightgirl wrote:

The following youtube video was also submitted by PBS/Masterpiece.  Brief interviews with Aidan, Eleanor, Josh and Debbie Horsefield about Demelza and Hugh's relationship.  Just so sad this misinterpretation of the books.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-U_eVIEThM&feature=youtu.be

 

I was appalled by ET's insensitive comments about the Demelza-HA sex scene. In proclaiming her betrayal of Ross her favorite scene she proudly flaunts her perverted sense of morality. I cringe when thinking of impressionable young fans who may be influenced by ET's cavalier attitude towards adultery.

Equally disturbing was DH's claim that Demelza's adultery was not a 'revenge thing.' Her (DH's) expressions belie this. Near the end of her comments, she laughingly states that Ross found the experience 'traumatic' and seems gleeful over his heartache. Retribution seems to be part of both ET and DH's distasteful agenda. 

 



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Moorland Rambler wrote:

It seems that the basic premises of the series' executive production team (which now must be DH and ET) is to make sure that Demelza is never shown in a bad light, never makes mistakes and whatever she does is right, no matter how perverse, immoral, deceitful, disloyal and untrustworthy her actions seem to be. 

I am sure this will continue in series 4 with their depiction of 'The Angry Tide' when (for example) it will be right for her to have no empathy and show no remorse for how Ross is feeling after the HA affair, right to act like a teenage debutante in London society, right to encourage the company of Monk Adderley and right to wash her hands of all responsibility for the duel and its outcome. 

I would like to believe that this won't happen, but, in a superficial screenwriting way, it is much easier to blame Ross in 'The Angry Tide' than in 'The Four Swans' and look what they did there!

 


 Moorland rambler - sadly I have to agree with your fears about series 4. I re-read The Angry Tide recently and noted that, once Ross returned to Nampara  from London after the duel  with Monk Adderley, Demelza apologised to Ross for her behaviour in just leaving without a word. I wonder if her apology will be included in series 4. Somehow I doubt it. hmm



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Monday 27th of November 2017 05:32:27 PM

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Poldarkmmmuses said

I am one of many on social media who are as disappointed by the way the series has gone this year. Given what theyve done I am scared to pieces at what they will do next series. 

______________________________________________________________________

 It seems that the basic premises of the series' executive production team (which now must be DH and ET) is to make sure that Demelza is never shown in a bad light, never makes mistakes and whatever she does is right, no matter how perverse, immoral, deceitful, disloyal and untrustworthy her actions seem to be. 

I am sure this will continue in series 4 with their depiction of 'The Angry Tide' when (for example) it will be right for her to have no empathy and show no remorse for how Ross is feeling after the HA affair, right to act like a teenage debutante in London society, right to encourage the company of Monk Adderley and right to wash her hands of all responsibility for the duel and its outcome. 

I would like to believe that this won't happen, but, in a superficial screenwriting way, it is much easier to blame Ross in 'The Angry Tide' than in 'The Four Swans' and look what they did there!

 



-- Edited by Moorland Rambler on Monday 27th of November 2017 02:14:25 PM

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I am very free in sending letters to my local Public Television Station which broadcasts these Brit Bits. You betcha I am gonna complain about what they've done with W.G.'s masterpiece. If enough of us complain then maybe they will shape up for the next series. Will there be one? It helps if you are a supporter ($$$)  of these stations. 



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I am one of many on social media who are as disappointed by the way the series has gone this year. Given what theyve done I am scared to pieces at what they will do next series. 



-- Edited by poldarkmmmuses on Sunday 26th of November 2017 09:41:47 PM

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Gee I thought all actors when they are portray real life characters or ones from a book would read about them and read the book(s). How unprofessional of an actor actress not to do so.



-- Edited by Dave on Sunday 26th of November 2017 02:26:24 PM

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Dave wrote:

Yes her words do not do her any favor. They only portray a women who is emotionally immature and under developed intellectually. 


 Dave - I think you are right. ET was a child actor and left school quite young. Some child actors are precocious and full of their own importance. Although Aidan probably hasn't read all the books he seems to have a better understanding of the characters than ET does.



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Yes her words do not do her any favor. They only portray a women who is emotionally immature and under developed intellectually. 



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P.S.  I hope we hear no more from her.



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And we had to go through so many episodes of her rants and raves about adultery in Season 2.  Signifying nothing.  Poor Ross.  But I see her comments as sexist rather than feminist.  If a man said that . . . well, he just couldn't and wouldn't I don't think.  It's a very selfish way of thinking.  Poor Ross again.  I have to wonder how many people actually agree with her.  Oh if only they could go back to the 1700's where the story belongs.  There is a passage in one of the later Poldark books where Demelza thinks something like "and you always do whatever you want" - I remember being struck by that as I have heard other women say that.  She doesn't say it but as someone else said about the series, every thought is now vocalized.



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Date: Nov 25 1:42 AM, 2017
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Brightgirl wrote:

 The following youtube video was also submitted by PBS/Masterpiece.  Brief interviews with Aidan, Eleanor, Josh and Debbie Horsefield about Demelza and Hugh's relationship.  Just so sad this misinterpretation of the books.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-U_eVIEThM&feature=youtu.be


I didn't mind DH's and Aidan's comments in this clip, but Elinor T's showed so clearly how she has very little idea of who Demelza is. She describes the scene in the grass (which should have been the seal cave scene) as "powerful", "strong" and "sensitive", all adjectives that made me cringe!  Only someone viewing the scene through very modern eyes could describe adultery and betrayal as strong and powerful.

ET also sees the incident as Demelza "taking control of her own life, and of their relationship" and again, only a post-1960s feminist would ever view a marriage in this way. She sees Demelza as "living her life just as Ross lives his". Total poppycock, IMO, in that era.



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Dave wrote:

After reading the last few posts and E.T.'s interview makes me wonder if  E.T. even read the book. I really find it hard to understand her thinking about Demelza's character otherwise. Yes, it is all but the money. Sometimes I think BBC or who in England produces these is under a great pressure from the US market to hurry up and get it done. Maybe they should do like Doc Martin do a film every other year. Of course, it also could be a generational thing. E.T.'s age and her fans have not had the experience to appreciate the nuances and subtleties of drama and character development. 



-- Edited by Dave on Thursday 23rd of November 2017 04:54:50 AM



-- Edited by Dave on Thursday 23rd of November 2017 04:55:37 AM


I suspect Eleanor Tomlinson has read the books and has gotten frustrated with Demelza. The Demelza she signed on to play was the one in the first two books. The Demelza of the subsequent books is changed by the unforeseen consequences of her actions in engineering Verity's elopement and saving Geoffrey Charles' life. She and the people she cares most about suffered greatly because of what she did and knowing that changed her -- after one last foray (Bodmin), which could have gotten Ross executed. That was the "wakeup call." That was when she realized she was capable of becoming even more headstrong than Ross and that had to stop. No longer was she going to lead from the heart, confident that she knew best. She might climb out the bedroom window to warn Ross that the farm was crawling with soldiers because the only person that endangered was her, but she would never again do anything that could endanger someone else. That's what made May 9th so frustrating. She had three opportunities to prevent Ross' late-night visit to Trenwith, but she did nothing. Very unlike a take-charge Demelza, which is probably why Debbie Horsfield felt the need to change the delivery time and method for Elizabeth's letter announcing her engagement. Instead of the letter coming by post at 3 p.m. and sitting on the mantelpiece until Ross arrived home after 9 p.m., giving Demelza six hours to do something, it arrived by messenger just after Ross got home and was put directly into his hands by Prudie. Demelza had no opportunity to intercept it and hold it until morning. 



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Date: Nov 23 4:34 AM, 2017
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 The following youtube video was also submitted by PBS/Masterpiece.  Brief interviews with Aidan, Eleanor, Josh and Debbie Horsefield about Demelza and Hugh's relationship.  Just so sad this misinterpretation of the books.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-U_eVIEThM&feature=youtu.be



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After reading the last few posts and E.T.'s interview makes me wonder if  E.T. even read the book. I really find it hard to understand her thinking about Demelza's character otherwise. Yes, it is all but the money. Sometimes I think BBC or who in England produces these is under a great pressure from the US market to hurry up and get it done. Maybe they should do like Doc Martin do a film every other year. Of course, it also could be a generational thing. E.T.'s age and her fans have not had the experience to appreciate the nuances and subtleties of drama and character development. 



-- Edited by Dave on Thursday 23rd of November 2017 04:54:50 AM



-- Edited by Dave on Thursday 23rd of November 2017 04:55:37 AM

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Regarding Elizabeth's statement -  When George and Elizabeth are talking about Drake's closeness to Trenwith George asks Elizabeth if she has seen anything of the Poldark's lately and she says "Nothing".  WG says that this is her first lie.  So even on the bible she might have lied as it was very important to her that George have no doubts about Valentine.  Even so, George later gets suspicious again and says "she might have chosen better words" and he wanted "additional sentences".  So her statement was somewhat ambiguous and maybe to her just a half-lie.



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Drat, I swore to never read any interviews again or any comments as it has affected my reading of the books.  I am finishing "The Four Swans" and in every scene I picture how the series will make it worse than it is.  This feeling will go in time I trust.  I come across the interviews sometimes and can't resist reading them, hoping for something positive.  I wish I didn't care so much and I wish certain others cared more.



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I have found a fairly recent podcast/transcript of an interview given by Eleanor Tomlinson to PBS/Masterpiece which (I assume) provides an insight into her thinking as well as the way things work on producing the series. I found the transcript easier to digest than the podcast. To get the transcript just click on the transcript link on the page.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/podcasts/eleanor-tomlinson-thinks-demelza-deserves-a-good-time/

There are many clues in what she says that point to the way the series was made and why Demelza's actions and demeanour differed so greatly from that in 'The Four Swans.'

 



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Little Henry wrote: 

I watched the finale in Canada on Sunday.  Hated so much of it but thought I would just "say nothing".  But I get emails from PBS and I made the mistake of reading an interview with Eleanor Tomlinson which was very upsetting to me so I have to vent.  She thinks it is an accomplishment to have "created a character that people want to be unfaithful to the leading man".  She thinks Demelza deserved to have "a bit of fun" and her infidelity gave Ross that "kick he needed" as she was "constantly let down by Ross" etc. etc.  I want to scream at her.  It's one thing for her to think of infidelity as a bit of fun but to put that on Demelza is unbelievable.  How did they get Ross and Demelza so wrong?  The writer has to be the ultimate source.  What a short memory her Demelza has.   In Series 4 ET says Demelza has to "stick to her guns".  Oh no, wish I could look forward to that.

 

Little Henry- I  join you in venting.

The season finale was also shown here in the U.S. last Sunday. I didn't have the heart to re-watch all S3 episodes since I'd already suffered through them on YouTube. However, hearing so many accolades from tv fans, I thought I'd watch E9 (so essential a part of The Four Swans) and see if my initial knee jerk reaction was too harsh.  No. The episode was just as disappointing on second viewing. Unfortunately, it is Demelza and her henchwoman Prudie who cast a pall over the entire the production.

I too echo the belief that DH is contriving to transform Eleanor Tomlinson into a prima donna and make her the break-out star of the Poldark series. This strategy seems to be working as evidenced by the ratings and fan adulation. I find the motivations of DH & Co quite similar to those of George Warleggan's. For George it was all about money and power and the prestige that came with it. For DH & Co it appears to be all about the ratings, which apparently translate into power and prestige. Obviously, DH and ET believe only a diva with modern day sensibilities can guarantee ratings. 

Similar to others, I find Prudie's character revision bizarre. She has been transformed into D's most intimate confidant, in all her drunken griminess. Her sole purpose seems to be to sit like a devil on D's shoulder, fan the flames of her discontent, and whisper dissent in her ear.

However, more than anything else, it is Demelza's gratuitous nastiness that overshadows everything and makes her character so unappealing. So much so that the pivotal ending of E9 becomes a travesty in DH's heavy-handed revision. Just as she seeks to control everything else, Demelza becomes the aggressor in the so-called seduction scene. When, like the creepy stalker he is, HA uses his failing eye sight to gain her sympathy, she takes the lead in the sexual encounter, urging him on. Even he looked surprised at her boldness. Then, afterwards, she had the temerity to go and jump in the bed with Ross and imply she had contemplated running off with her lover. Disgusting and too over the top. Interestingly, the only thing tv Demelza had in common with book Demelza was their lack of remorse over their adultery and betrayal of Ross' belief in their loyalty.  

Unbelievably and sadly, her fans applauded her actions. So the series ended on this unfortunate note, rationalizing, justifying, and cheering adultery. Apparently in DH's universe, the goose and the gander are not to be judged equally when it comes to adultery. 

Except for the vindictive D, there were good performances. I very much liked Heida's portrayal of Elizabeth in her confrontation with George. Her reducing him to a blathering mess was very well done. (I actually like tv Elizabeth much more than tv Demelza.)

And of course, despite DH and ET's efforts to emasculate him, Aidan continues to perform brilliantly. He captures the integrity of book Ross, no matter how many ridiculous situations DH places him in (Ross threatening villagers with guns, really?). Despite all obstacles, Aidan continues to bring the essence of WG's Ross to the screen. I don't think there can be any compliment higher than that. 

 

 



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Was Ross and Elizabeth's night together a tryst or rape? I know this is a difficult topic for many of you. I was surprised in the film S 3, E.9 where Elizabeth is swearing on the bible, and this was taken seriously in those times, she said: "I swear I have never given myself to another man......".  I interpret that as meaning she was forced and not with her consent. I thought when I heard that dialogue it struck me as interesting. 



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OK well after watching Episode 9 Season 3 on the TV some thoughts.

I have come to terms with this season and their handling of the Poldark characters in particular Demelza. I just wish they could have spent more effort in better script writing. I feel if they wanted to do so with some work they could get to the spirit of W.G.'s writings. As I have stated before my wife Phyllis and daughter Nancy are watching this series but they haven't read the books. So I am doing the best to try explaining the real intent of W.G.'s writing about these characters and situations. It is really hard to do without revealing spoilers especially since Phyllis doesn't want to hear them.  I and I am sure those of you who have read the books feel so superior to those poor souls who haven't read the books. They have missed so much. I know this sounds so bookish, snobbish, elitist but it is the truth.

 

I will end here as I don't want to get too lengthy. Will give more of my thoughts on Episode 9 later. 



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Debbie Horsfield is so revered I feel I'm missing something and I try hard to reconcile what she writes with the books but just can't sometimes.  Aidan Turner says that the best thing about being on Poldark is DH and her brilliant writing and how she takes care of him.  I would love to ask him in fun if telling your wife angrily to "look elsewhere for a pet" is so brilliant.  Demelza is so popular but shouldn't both parties in a love story be loved or at least liked.  I find there is a great disconnect between what the main parties say and what is actually shown on the series.  For instance they mention the love and respect R & D have but don't show it, they say that Demelza is not revengeful but spend many episodes indicating that that's where she's heading, and even going back to Ross and Elizabeth's tryst, they made a big deal of it being consensual sex but I thought they wrote and filmed it very violently.  Thank you Stella for making me feel I'm not the alien.  I notice so many people are reading the books and that can only be good.



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Date: Nov 21 9:17 PM, 2017
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Little Henry wrote:

I watched the finale in Canada on Sunday.  Hated so much of it but thought I would just "say nothing".  But I get emails from PBS and I made the mistake of reading an interview with Eleanor Tomlinson which was very upsetting to me so I have to vent.  She thinks it is an accomplishment to have "created a character that people want to be unfaithful to the leading man".  She thinks Demelza deserved to have "a bit of fun" and her infidelity gave Ross that "kick he needed" as she was "constantly let down by Ross" etc. etc.  I want to scream at her.  It's one thing for her to think of infidelity as a bit of fun but to put that on Demelza is unbelievable.  How did they get Ross and Demelza so wrong?  The writer has to be the ultimate source.  What a short memory her Demelza has.   In Series 4 ET says Demelza has to "stick to her guns".  Oh no, wish I could look forward to that.


 Little Henry

I feel as angry as you do. Eleanor Tomlinson has too much power and control in this production. She appears to have just grabbed it. I wonder how Aidan Turner feels about this. Together with Debbie Horsfield, she has strayed so far from the books that the characters are barely recognisable. Yet some people say it is a production that represents their perception of the stories and the characters as portrayed by Winston Graham. Clearly some people live on a different planet.

It doesn't feel like a true historical drama with Demelza behaving as if she lived in the present day. Thank goodness we have the books to retreat into for some sanity.



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I watched the finale in Canada on Sunday.  Hated so much of it but thought I would just "say nothing".  But I get emails from PBS and I made the mistake of reading an interview with Eleanor Tomlinson which was very upsetting to me so I have to vent.  She thinks it is an accomplishment to have "created a character that people want to be unfaithful to the leading man".  She thinks Demelza deserved to have "a bit of fun" and her infidelity gave Ross that "kick he needed" as she was "constantly let down by Ross" etc. etc.  I want to scream at her.  It's one thing for her to think of infidelity as a bit of fun but to put that on Demelza is unbelievable.  How did they get Ross and Demelza so wrong?  The writer has to be the ultimate source.  What a short memory her Demelza has.   In Series 4 ET says Demelza has to "stick to her guns".  Oh no, wish I could look forward to that.



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Date: Aug 22 4:37 AM, 2017
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I've just been watching The Handmaid's Tale. Now _that's_ the way to do an adaptation.

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Fijane wrote:
As an antidote, I intend to go back and just watch the first series, and maybe a little of the second - to cleanse my palate and go back to the way I felt back then.

I like the way you put that: "cleanse my palate."  The first series was different, wasn't it?  DH didn't stray as much from the the essence of the characters. She promised she would remain true to the books, and we believed her; we were more innocent then.  I've only watched bits of this new series and what I've seen and read here has convinced me to wait.  This book-to-TV translation makes me think of Prince of Tides, which was book-to-film.  I read the book first and while Barbara Streisand could in no way include even 10% of the action, the essence of the characters remained true.  I love the book and the movie.  So it can be done.



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Stella, I agree with you about Heida. I think that Jack is bringing out possibly the best of her acting ability, but most of the rest of the time she is quite immobile.

Now that Poldark is finished, I am catching up on Outlander, and I have to say that the difference in the acting skills, dialogue, and authenticity of the crowd scenes is very startling.



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Date: Aug 15 8:41 PM, 2017
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Fijane wrote:

Well, that is the end of Series 3 for us here in Australia. And like many of you I am glad, because I am weary of the cycle of hope, then disappointment each week.

In thinking about this last episode, I have realised that if all the Demelza, Prudie, and Hugh scenes were cut, I would have quite liked it. Both Demelza and Prudie are just appalling in this episode (I didn't think Demelza could get worse, but...) and I now find Demelza to be so obnoxious and Prudie is just a nasty-minded snitch, I don't want to see either of them on screen anymore.

 Fijane - I agree with you about Demelza and Prudie and it is down to DH to write good lines for them. As she writes more she seems to get ever more slapdash.

I am surprised that there has been no mention in this thread about the amazing performance of Jack Farthing, and ably supported by Heida Reed. I was mesmorised by the "oath" scene, and George's obvious devastation from the jealousy and his love for Elizabeth. In my opinion, one of the premier scenes of the whole three series. (Of course, all the best done scenes have been lifted almost verbatim from the books).

I agree about Jack Farthing's acting but I do not think Heida can act very well. She found her voice with the scripts she was given in this episode and it is the best acting we've seen from her. She has been somewhat robotic I think.

They switched the timeline of Drake's story around, and I can't see the necessity of that. Why burn the smithy now, when it is quite important for it to burn later while Drake is away in St Margarets.

Ossie, Morwenna, Rowella and Arthur was also well done, although once again the subtleties were skipped and Rowella's scheming motives are laid bare from the start. I would have liked to see Arthur looking more nervous and less assertive, and I don't think it would have hurt to hint about Rowella having to contantly keep him buoyed up. I don't like Morwenna showing affection for Conan - it will make her later actions look wrong. And of course her little trip to watch Drake working was ridiculous.

Re the French invasion that-never-was: DH took a side issue of Ross going off (to distant parts) to train militia groups and turned it into a really huge deal. I can sort of see why she wanted to do that, but it seemed a very elaborate scheme just to make Ross change his mind about parliament. And once again, they couldn't find enough extras to make the scenes convincing. Very amateur all around.

Couldn't agree more with this last point. It was all very confusing and made no sense to me.

Personally, I think Ross's real reason for accepting Lord Falmouth is more compelling. He clearly states (later) the difficulty of explaining that when the first offer came he was content at home and secure with Demelza, whereas later he was not. He had good reason to suspect Demelza had cheated, and everything (personally) had changed. Again, probably too nuanced for DH to cope with.

I agree with this point but wonder how DH could have explained Ross's feeling of wanting to put distance between himself and Demelza. I think this is quite difficult to convey in a drama. It would need Ross to explain his reasons to someone other than Demelza but he would have felt disloyal. Fijane - do you have any ideas how this could be done? Perhaps series two of the 1970s version may help here.

To sum up, a reasonable episode if you can eliminate Demelza, with an excellent continuance of George and Elizabeth's tribulations.

This episode was better than many this series.


 



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