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Post Info TOPIC: TV Poldark Series 3, Episode 8


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Date: Nov 13 7:48 PM, 2017
RE: TV Poldark Series 3, Episode 8
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Further to Dave's post on Episode 7 - it's those little asides and comments of Demelza's that are particularly irksome and unnecessary.  I hated in this episode all the remarks from Demelza and Prudie about Ross's negligence and not noticing her and criticizing his comments.  Very disrespectful and disloyal.  DH is apparently trying to show an age gap between Demelza and Ross and thus her attraction to the younger Hugh.  But in the books the only thing I remember about their ages is that "Ross was younger than his years and Demelza was older than her years", I think because of their wonderful relationship and was no problem at all.  After the horrible scene on the beach where they are yelling at each other, this episode opens at Agatha's grave, apparently quite over their ugly quarrel.  Thank goodness but still the damage is done.  I had seen Episode 8 before on my computer so I was prepared for the worst because I remembered the worst.  This time I saw more of the positive maybe because at least they weren't yelling and did show some closeness.  For once I liked the change that Demelza went to Truro with Ross as Ross invited her and showed some togetherness. 



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Date: Aug 8 4:07 AM, 2017
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A few episodes ago, I was really mad about how badly a particular episode was done. After watching this episode (8) this morning, I am just sad, sad, sad.

It is hard to review the episode because the damage that DH and the producers have done to Ross and Demelza is now so overwhelming, it is getting hard to remember any of the good stuff.

Even George and Elizabeth's storyline, which they have played out quite well until now, is suddenly rushing headlong like a runaway train. Within half an hour (show time) Elizabeth has worked it all out, and realised it was Agatha. What should have been a creeping glacier of iciness over a period of time, is now a sledgehammer. Aidan Turner played the scene in the church very, very well, and Heida Reed was adequate, so that scene was a highlight of the show.

I was tricked by the lovely scene at the start at the fire, where Demelza and Ross seemed to speak lovingly to each other. Then, just like last episode, as soon as Ross steps away Demelza fires off an awful insult, aided by her evil henchwoman, Prudie.

Later they seemed to try to make Demelza look like a nice woman again, but spoilt it by making her speak words that you would expect from someone who's next "love" will come via Tinder. She's all moony over Hugh, but there has been no poetry and somehow she seems to have fallen for him for no apparent reason.

Once again, the show is carried by Ossie and Morwenna's story which I think is well done, apart from the silly geographical errors, like having Morwenna gazing out to sea. Where is the poignant scene at the river, with the little girls, where she contemplates throwing herself in the mud? I would like Ossie to be a little less aggressive in his sexual advances, and more quietly insistent, which I find more creepy from the books.

Dreading next week, although I have already read your comments on the next thread.



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Date: Aug 6 2:25 PM, 2017
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we know that D and H will be kissing at the dunes and that does not take place before the visit to the seals. I think DH may be pressing things together. We will see tonight. 



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welmet wrote:

To your point, in fact when she goes to see Hugh the next morning she tells him that all she can be is his good friend, and that he must know that she is set and happy in her home and marrage.. Unfortunately, she tacitly agrees to accepting his poems, and as they turn more amorious over time it has an effect on her that even Ross senses. When Hugh unexpectly returns they go to see the seals, and we know what happens. Throughout this, however, there is never a question of her love for Ross. In fact, after that day with Hugh, when Ross returns they make deep love, so much so that Ross takes note of it. Can you imagine such a thing happening with DH's Demelza? Assuming the episode 9 will be her version of the trip to see the seals, we will have to wait a year to see if she and Ross are loving partners again so soon after her encounter with Hugh. Somehow I doubt it. How will DH ever get them back together again? There seems so little to build upon. 

 

 


 I don't see how they can get to the visit to the seals in the final episode of Series 3. Armitage was supposed to be leaving to go back to sea. He has to do that and then be sent home on a medical discharge before they can go visit the seals. Plus, there is all the Ossie and Rowella business that must be gotten through. And don't forget the militia business. Maybe the seals visit will be used as a cliffhanger.



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Dark Mare wrote:

That scene bothers me too, but maybe for different reasons. It comes too late in the story. It would have worked better as part of the bedroom scene in which Ross makes that snide remark about not every man in Cornwall being besotted with her. It would take little to create a segue into the book's scene. All she had to do to break the tension was get Ross to laugh. (I'd do it by denying I think every man in Cornwall is besotted with me and offer to name five who aren't: "Jud, George, Cary Warleggan, Tom Harry, and, judging by the way you said what you just did, you," following it with a wink or a chuckle.) Once he was laughing, she would need little to segue into the book's dialogue.

Further, in the book Demelza's wish for one day with Hugh envisioned a platonic encounter, not a romantic one -- and especially not a sexual one. From Demelza's end there was nothing for Ross to be threatened by -- unless her one day sounded to him like days he spent with Elizabeth before he joined the army (on Hugh's end, of course, there definitely was something to worry about). By pushing this scene later into the story, DH has Demelza essentially asking for a "hall pass," which is something entirely different. 

 ------------------

To your point, in fact when she goes to see Hugh the next morning she tells him that all she can be is his good friend, and that he must know that she is set and happy in her home and marrage.. Unfortunately, she tacitly agrees to accepting his poems, and as they turn more amorious over time it has an effect on her that even Ross senses. When Hugh unexpectly returns they go to see the seals, and we know what happens. Throughout this, however, there is never a question of her love for Ross. In fact, after that day with Hugh, when Ross returns they make deep love, so much so that Ross takes note of it. Can you imagine such a thing happening with DH's Demelza? Assuming the episode 9 will be her version of the trip to see the seals, we will have to wait a year to see if she and Ross are loving partners again so soon after her encounter with Hugh. Somehow I doubt it. How will DH ever get them back together again? There seems so little to build upon. 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Thursday 3rd of August 2017 03:27:53 AM


 



-- Edited by welmet on Sunday 6th of August 2017 04:09:06 AM



-- Edited by welmet on Sunday 6th of August 2017 04:09:41 AM

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I'm a new member as I was very hurt by the last few episodes, starting with Ross's change of character to mean, nasty and odious in his comment, out of the blue, to Demelza, after years of being a loving, caring husband.  It's nice to see others have been disappointed too.  A recurring theme throughout the series has been "I hate Ross" / "Poor Demelza" and here we go again.  Can't think why this is a good thing to do.  Very negative and utterly annoying.  The "lap dog" scene is an absolutely gross misrepresentation of the spirit of their conversation in the book.  There are just so many instances where their relationship is more than skewered, becoming the opposite of the book.  Where is the Graham family in all this.  I cannot think they would approve changing the characters of Ross and Demelza, taking away the very heart and soul of the books.



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Date: Aug 3 3:23 AM, 2017
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That scene bothers me too, but maybe for different reasons. It comes too late in the story. It would have worked better as part of the bedroom scene in which Ross makes that snide remark about not every man in Cornwall being besotted with her. It would take little to create a segue into the book's scene. All she had to do to break the tension was get Ross to laugh. (I'd do it by denying I think every man in Cornwall is besotted with me and offer to name five who aren't: "Jud, George, Cary Warleggan, Tom Harry, and, judging by the way you said what you just did, you," following it with a wink or a chuckle.) Once he was laughing, she would need little to segue into the book's dialogue.

Further, in the book Demelza's wish for one day with Hugh envisioned a platonic encounter, not a romantic one -- and especially not a sexual one. From Demelza's end there was nothing for Ross to be threatened by -- unless her one day sounded to him like days he spent with Elizabeth before he joined the army (on Hugh's end, of course, there definitely was something to worry about). By pushing this scene later into the story, DH has Demelza essentially asking for a "hall pass," which is something entirely different. 

 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Thursday 3rd of August 2017 03:27:53 AM

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In a moment of weakness, I went on YouTube and watched some of the videos from this episode as well as others. The particular scene where Demelza says she would like to be two people and she will look at him that way again had me shaking me head in disgust.  None of the sweetness and intimacy of the books.  In WG's version, Demelza began looking that way again at Ross on Christmas Eve, 1793!  And wanting Hugh did not prevent her from wanting/loving Ross.  TFS: "If he had noticed, Ross might have been aware of some extra warmth in Demelza's kiss and that her hands, holding his cost by each upper arm, retained their grip longer than usual."  And later that day:  "She felt no less in love with Ross than before - perhaps, perversely a little more so."

I may have said this somewhere else on this forum, but what I absolutely cherish about Winston Graham's books is that they provide a realistic road map or template, illustrating how a couple can have a strong, loving and long-lasting (42+ years!) marriage - through tragedy and betrayals.  One of Winston Graham's tenets is an essential respect for the other.  In the books, Ross and Demelza are never petty, mean or vindictive.  They never resort to nasty sarcasm and they never put down the other.  Even through their toughest times (after May 9th, after Hugh), they value the other person.  Even when Ross is conflicted about Elizabeth, it's clear he still loves Demelza and, similarly, when Demelza is smitten with Hugh, she still loves Ross.  What I absolutely detest about DH's version is the inherent decency, love and respect between Ross and Demelza - as illustrated by Winston Graham - is absent.  I'm always shocked at how mean and sarcastic they are on TV.  What we see is not a recipe for a happy, long-lasting marriage.  Maybe DH thinks thinks complicated feelings are too sophisticated for today's viewers.   I hate this series and I hate it even more because DH betrays the text.

 

 



-- Edited by JanetMaison on Tuesday 1st of August 2017 10:01:10 PM

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welmet wrote:

Season 3. Episode 8 was very moving, and in some ways one that was very close to what WG wrote in TFS. I can away, however, with a very different feeling about where R and D stood, what their bedroom talk said about their relationship and the future. To clarify this, I compared both the WG version and the one presented by DH. Considering what DH added and removed, I go a very different picture than from what I got reading WG  starting with how it portrayed in the book and  staged by DH.

In TFS WG has D and R coming together and talking about why she is so distressed. In DHs version, it is much more formal without the warmth or even physical contact that is in the book.  Here are the two accounts:

 WG-------------

Feeling sick, love? he asked. No. You were a thought liberal with your port. Its long since you drank it for Dutch courage. It was not for Dutch courage. No. I think I know. Do you? Well, tell me. I cant. He sat on the bed beside her and put his arm round her shoulder. She leaned her head against him.

 DH-------------- 

We said we would keep no more secrets from each other, Ross, I have nothings to tell, do you. Yes, but I think you will find it hard to hear. Tell me.

In both versions D tells of how she wishs she could be two different people, but the words are slightly different, resulting in a big difference. Here are the two accounts:

WG--------------

 Oh, Ross, Im so sad! For him? Well, I wish I were two people. Tell me. One, your loving wife, that I always wish to be and always shall be. And mother. Content, content, content But for a day There was a long silence. For a day youd like to be his lover. No. Not that. But Id like to be another person, not Demelza Poldark, but someone new, who could respond to him and make him happy, just for a day Someone who could laugh with him, talk with him, flirt with him maybe, go off with him, ride, swim, talk, without feeling I was being disloyal to the man I really and truly and absolutely love.

DH--------------

I want to tell you I wish I could be two people. One your loving wife, the mother of your children, content in our life as I am and as I ever wish to be. And the other. Someone else, someone new that could love another just for a day, laugh with him, kiss him, love him for a day without feeling disloyal to the man I truly love

What is different? In DHs version R asks her if she wants to be his lover, and she says NO. She wants to respond to him and make him happy, just for a day Someone who could laugh with him, talk with him, flirt with him maybe, go off with him, ride, swim, talk, . (and later)  I do not want to be disloyal! I do not want to love elsewhere! Thats not it at all. I want to give another man some sort of happiness some of my happiness perhaps and I cannot and it hurts In DHs version if R asked that if she wanted to be his lover the answer would be YES. Yes, I want to " laugh with him, kiss him, love him for a day.

In both versions R asks if D would be happy with the one day. In WG version she does not respond. In DHs version she says, I think so, for I know who it is that truly owns my heart. Do you doubt it. (R says) Not till tonight. To me there is a big difference here.  If Ross owns her heart why is she putting herself and him through all this? For me what she is tell R is that she loves him, but she wants him to sit by as she cockhold him for her pleasure. Very different from WG version when she says, " I do not want to be disloyal! I do not want to love elsewhere! Thats not it at all. I want to give another man some sort of happiness.

In WG version R shows some understanding, which DH does not include.

In both versions R notes that she is look(ing) at another man the way you look at me. In WGs version it come in the context this this is very hurtful, and D reaction is to burst into tears. He said no more for a while, content that she was beside him and that he was sharing her mind and emotion. In DHs version, R says, I saw you look at him the way you once looked at me. And D says, I will look at you again, Ross. Just be patient with me. As I have been patient with you.

DHs response seems to me to be cold, and calculating. See seems to be saying, you had your fling and now it is my turn.

It will be interesting to see how things progress next week. In WG version Demelza is very clear with Hugh, who persists. Here is what she says and does after her talk with Ross: Hugh Armitages leave-taking Im happy to be your friend, really, I am. But that is all it can be. Oh, Hugh, dont you see how I am set? Im happily wed. Two beautiful children. Everything I want in the world. I want to be kind to you. I like you deeply. But you do see I cannot be more than kind. I dont think that is where she is after DHs version of her talk with Ross.

 



-- Edited by welmet on Tuesday 1st of August 2017 08:46:58 PM



-- Edited by welmet on Tuesday 1st of August 2017 08:48:50 PM


 Welmet - You do well in highlighting the differences between book Demelza and television Demelza and how it deprives the series of the real Demelza and again skews the story. I had thought this was the best episode of this series so far but now see I was mistaken. If nothing else an adaptation should be true to the characters and this most definitely has not been. Alas this does not bode well for series 4 unless some attention is paid to some of the criticisms on forums such as Facebook and Goodreads. The Angry Tide is a very thick book and a great book too.



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Season 3. Episode 8 was very moving, and in some ways one that was very close to what WG wrote in TFS. I came away, however, with a very different feeling about where R and D stood, what their bedroom talk said about their relationship and the future. To clarify this, I compared both the WG version and the one presented by DH. Considering what DH added and removed, I go a very different picture than from what I got reading WG  starting with how it portrayed in the book and  staged by DH.

In TFS WG has D and R coming together and talking about why she is so distressed. In DHs version, it is much more formal without the warmth or even physical contact that is in the book.  Here are the two accounts:

 WG-------------

Feeling sick, love? he asked. No. You were a thought liberal with your port. Its long since you drank it for Dutch courage. It was not for Dutch courage. No. I think I know. Do you? Well, tell me. I cant. He sat on the bed beside her and put his arm round her shoulder. She leaned her head against him.

 DH-------------- 

We said we would keep no more secrets from each other, Ross, I have nothings to tell, do you. Yes, but I think you will find it hard to hear. Tell me.

In both versions D tells of how she wishs she could be two different people, but the words are slightly different, resulting in a big difference. Here are the two accounts:

WG--------------

 Oh, Ross, Im so sad! For him? Well, I wish I were two people. Tell me. One, your loving wife, that I always wish to be and always shall be. And mother. Content, content, content But for a day There was a long silence. For a day youd like to be his lover. No. Not that. But Id like to be another person, not Demelza Poldark, but someone new, who could respond to him and make him happy, just for a day Someone who could laugh with him, talk with him, flirt with him maybe, go off with him, ride, swim, talk, without feeling I was being disloyal to the man I really and truly and absolutely love.

DH--------------

I want to tell you I wish I could be two people. One your loving wife, the mother of your children, content in our life as I am and as I ever wish to be. And the other. Someone else, someone new that could love another just for a day, laugh with him, kiss him, love him for a day without feeling disloyal to the man I truly love

What is different? In DHs version R asks her if she wants to be his lover, and she says NO. She wants to respond to him and make him happy, just for a day Someone who could laugh with him, talk with him, flirt with him maybe, go off with him, ride, swim, talk, . (and later)  I do not want to be disloyal! I do not want to love elsewhere! Thats not it at all. I want to give another man some sort of happiness some of my happiness perhaps and I cannot and it hurts In DHs version if R asked that if she wanted to be his lover the answer would be YES. Yes, I want to " laugh with him, kiss him, love him for a day.

In both versions R asks if D would be happy with the one day. In WG version she does not respond. In DHs version she says, I think so, for I know who it is that truly owns my heart. Do you doubt it. (R says) Not till tonight. To me there is a big difference here.  If Ross owns her heart why is she putting herself and him through all this? For me what she is tell R is that she loves him, but she wants him to sit by as she cockhold him for her pleasure. Very different from WG version when she says, " I do not want to be disloyal! I do not want to love elsewhere! Thats not it at all. I want to give another man some sort of happiness.

In WG version R shows some understanding, which DH does not include.

In both versions R notes that she is look(ing) at another man the way you look at me. In WGs version it come in the context this this is very hurtful, and D reaction is to burst into tears. He said no more for a while, content that she was beside him and that he was sharing her mind and emotion. In DHs version, R says, I saw you look at him the way you once looked at me. And D says, I will look at you again, Ross. Just be patient with me. As I have been patient with you.

DHs response seems to me to be cold, and calculating. See seems to be saying, you had your fling and now it is my turn.

It will be interesting to see how things progress next week. In WG version Demelza is very clear with Hugh, who persists. Here is what she says and does after her talk with Ross: Hugh Armitages leave-taking Im happy to be your friend, really, I am. But that is all it can be. Oh, Hugh, dont you see how I am set? Im happily wed. Two beautiful children. Everything I want in the world. I want to be kind to you. I like you deeply. But you do see I cannot be more than kind. I dont think that is where she is after DHs version of her talk with Ross.

 



-- Edited by welmet on Tuesday 1st of August 2017 08:46:58 PM



-- Edited by welmet on Tuesday 1st of August 2017 08:48:50 PM



-- Edited by welmet on Wednesday 2nd of August 2017 01:39:38 AM

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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Well, what of last night's offering?

It seems Truro gets nearer to Nampara each week! 

There are several odd things which glare out, to me at any rate.  Why does Harris Pascoe meet Ross in the Red Lion?  Bankers normally spend their days in, well, the bank!  Also, what was Sam Carne doing in a pub? Why did R&D go to Truro for the election anyway?  He didn't have a vote.  I could go on about several small anomalies, but will end with this one.  How does Lord Falmouth think Ross can do anything to help him just after George has been elected and no General Election is planned?  Once again DH's timings are mixed up.

The election was not accurately portrayed.  If the Burgesses had been able to cast a vote by the means shown last night, George would not have won.  The only reason he won in the books was because those 25 men had to state out loud how they were voting and by those means many were forced to side with Warleggan, as he had a financial stranglehold over them.  I didn't at all like the depiction of Lord Falmouth's actions, far too overt and wooden.  Yes, he did offer contracts and put work and favours the voters' way, but not like that. 

Once more some golden opportunities were missed.  The conversation between Ross and Demelza in the Tregothnan bedroom, when she had overdone the port and talks to Ross of Hugh Armitage, would have made a splendid scene.  Instead we got severe Demelza, telling her husband she will look at him lovingly again, but not yet!  No wonder he is confused.

The most glaring alteration, however, was the revelation about Aunt Agatha.  Now a different ending will have to be contrived for the conclusion of The Angry Tide.  It is all so unnecessary, if the chronology was adhered to.


 Mrs G - All you say is true but compared with all that has gone before in this series I think this episode was so much better and closer to the books than any other episode. So for me getting some of the details wrong did not matter. Until this episode, this series has been quite a way off the books for no good reasons and has been jumping all over the place so I was thankful last night that I could at last enjoy an episode. Morwenna's acting has been excellent I think as has her sister Rowella's. At last Ross and Demelza seem to be communicating again. I was losing the will to live watching this series so dreaded what might come last night. It was, fortunately, a pleasant surprise.



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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

 

Once more some golden opportunities were missed.  The conversation between Ross and Demelza in the Tregothnan bedroom, when she had overdone the port and talks to Ross of Hugh Armitage, would have made a splendid scene.  Instead we got severe Demelza, telling her husband she will look at him lovingly again, but not yet!  No wonder he is confused.

 


The conversation between Ross and Demelza at the end of episode 8 was so devoid of emotion, it could have taken place in a solicitor's office. What a contrast to the emotional fireworks being lit in the equivalent scene in the book, with Demelza hurting, crying, and laughing in quick succession.

In the book, (TFS Bk 1 Ch 13 I ) Demelza's wish to be another person for a day was a dreamlike aspiration, full of her fantasies to please. It was blurted out in a fit of emotion, fuelled by an abundance of port. Ross reasons with her and the dialogue between them shows how much they think about and care for each other.

Contrast that with Demelza's cool, calculated approach taken in episode 8, which implied to me that this 'one day' was not just a wish, she was going to make it happen! Ross just had to listen and put up with it. His acquiescence was rediculously unrealistic, especially after she had used phrases such as 'kiss him' and 'love him,' words even tipsy Demelza in the book never went near.

The final ignomy for Ross was Demelza's cold retort - 'I will look at you that way again Ross. Just be patient with me.' Does this mean, 'Let me get on with it!' And afterwards she might just start noticing him again? It is so out of context with the book where she is being torn apart by such strong emotions for both men, there is no setting aside one of them so she can get to grips with the other.

It seems she has a choice between Mr. Nice or Mr. Nasty

At the end of the scene in the book, Ross playfully threatens to give Demelza 'a good beating.' I'm slightly surprised that DH didn't use such a scenario as an alternative ending to this scene to further demonise Ross and provide Demelza with a greater excuse for her behaviour in the next episode.

 



-- Edited by Moorland Rambler on Monday 31st of July 2017 05:57:08 PM



-- Edited by Moorland Rambler on Tuesday 1st of August 2017 10:48:15 AM

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Well, what of last night's offering?

It seems Truro gets nearer to Nampara each week! 

There are several odd things which glare out, to me at any rate.  Why does Harris Pascoe meet Ross in the Red Lion?  Bankers normally spend their days in, well, the bank!  Also, what was Sam Carne doing in a pub? Why did R&D go to Truro for the election anyway?  He didn't have a vote.  I could go on about several small anomalies, but will end with this one.  How does Lord Falmouth think Ross can do anything to help him just after George has been elected and no General Election is planned?  Once again DH's timings are mixed up.

The election was not accurately portrayed.  If the Burgesses had been able to cast a vote by the means shown last night, George would not have won.  The only reason he won in the books was because those 25 men had to state out loud how they were voting and by those means many were forced to side with Warleggan, as he had a financial stranglehold over them.  I didn't at all like the depiction of Lord Falmouth's actions, far too overt and wooden.  Yes, he did offer contracts and put work and favours the voters' way, but not like that. 

Once more some golden opportunities were missed.  The conversation between Ross and Demelza in the Tregothnan bedroom, when she had overdone the port and talks to Ross of Hugh Armitage, would have made a splendid scene.  Instead we got severe Demelza, telling her husband she will look at him lovingly again, but not yet!  No wonder he is confused.

The most glaring alteration, however, was the revelation about Aunt Agatha.  Now a different ending will have to be contrived for the conclusion of The Angry Tide.  It is all so unnecessary, if the chronology was adhered to.



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