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Post Info TOPIC: Poldark T.V. Series 3 Episode 7


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Date: Nov 16 8:45 PM, 2017
RE: Poldark T.V. Series 3 Episode 7
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Naw it wasn't in the book but in the  TV film when she was really PO'd at him after the night with Elizabeth, however, I thought it fit in the story. There was a scene in the last book that I read that I thought was well done. It is where Ross comes back from London and teases Demelza about neglecting her duties at Nampara while he was gone. Demelza goes through a big list of things she had to tend at the Nampara household, good stuff. Will do a search for it. Also, I want to find the text where she mentions about Ross being away for much.



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I have heard many people comment that, although the 1970s series was not faithful to the books in the beginning, there was an extraordinary chemistry between Ross and Demelza.  Whether they argued and bickered I couldn't say, but I understand the casting of everyone was a triumph, especially the main characters and Jud and Prudie.

Did Demelza accuse Ross of wanting to 'save Cornwall' in the books?  I must check.  Really, she was very proud of her man and what he achieved.  She just longed to always be involved with him - and not at a distance.

I do get the feeling that some viewers (and some readers) expect the characters to behave as 21st Century ones, but dressed in Georgian clothing.  Just because R&D have more modern ideas and views some of the time, they still have to adhere to the conventions of the times in many instances.  DH quite clearly doesn't see this.



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Well done Mrs. Gimlett. Those are my sentiments also. I hated that beach scene as I think I posted on this board. Demelza in the books does lament Ross is away from her so often, very wifey like I believe HA HA !. That's life, Ross has to tend to business and earn a living and "save all of Cornwall" as Demelza once accused him of doing. I feel sorry for the non-book readers who miss all that. Like I mentioned before the film has a time and budget limit and I believe sometimes script writing problems. Well, that's life in TV land. I felt better after the next episode in the film and it seemed to stick more to the book. 



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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

____________________________________________________________________

To return to the relationship between R&D.  Several times through the books, Demelza longs for the days when they were first married, to be able immerse themselves in each other.  She hankers to keep Ross near her, not in a jealously possessive way, but just in the locale and not haring off on exploits.  Because the series has made Demelza so feisty and unpleasant, their enjoyment of each other's company is missing. As has been said, they didn't bicker and were a good team, but none of that side has been shown on TV.  It is either sly digging on her part or Ross totally ignoring her.  I loathed that scene on the beach.  Ross would never have talked to her like that but of course neither would Demelza ever have behaved like that.

____________________________________________________________________

 

Stella Poldark wrote:

____________________________________________________________________

There are times when I am arguing with people (not here but elsewhere) that series 3 especially gives a very different account of Ross and Demelza's relationship from that in the books. Sometimes it is difficult to get the message across but I feel duty bound to put the record straight

____________________________________________________________________

It seems to me that in series 3 there was an agenda to keep the audience sympathetic towards Demelza to the detriment of Ross. Otherwise why would they stray so far from what was written in 'The Four Swans?' I've no idea why! What if DH had kept to the Demelza and Hugh story as described in the book? How would the audience have reacted to that? Much of Demelza's emotional turmoil was kept to herself and it would have been difficult (but not impossible) to portray in a TV drama. However, an attempt should have been made to depict her growing infatuation with Hugh, including the deceits and half-truths she was willing to employ, rather than concocting a marital estrangement with Ross which never existed.

 



-- Edited by Moorland Rambler on Thursday 16th of November 2017 05:29:30 PM

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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Who appraised Ross of Agatha's death?  In the books, no-one; there was no need for it to be written, the book ended with the death.  In a country district such as Nampara/Trenwith, word would quickly have spread, even if no formal word came to Nampara.  The servants were all inter-related and the news would come to R&D more quickly than any letter.

As for the dinner at Tehidy; Francis Bassett was not petty minded and even though he had a feud with Lord Falmouth he wouldn't have let that prevent him from inviting a Boscawen relative if he wanted to.  At the time, there was no question of Hugh being put up for Parliament - he was returning to the Navy. The palace revolution for the Truro seats was still only a glimmer in Bassett's eye; one of the purposes of inviting R&D was to sound Ross out and offer him the chance of standing.  Ross quite rightly refused because he didn't want to become a pawn in the game.

To return to the relationship between R&D.  Several times through the books, Demelza longs for the days when they were first married, to be able immerse themselves in each other.  She hankers to keep Ross near her, not in a jealously possessive way, but just in the locale and not haring off on exploits.  Because the series has made Demelza so feisty and unpleasant, their enjoyment of each other's company is missing. As has been said, they didn't bicker and were a good team, but none of that side has been shown on TV.  It is either sly digging on her part or Ross totally ignoring her.  I loathed that scene on the beach.  Ross would never have talked to her like that but of course neither would Demelza ever have behaved like that.

Thank goodness for the books into which we can escape whenever we wish.  Even better, to imagine what is not written.  That way, each character always lives up to our expectations!


 Mrs Gimlett - Having searched for details of how Ross may have learned of Agatha's death I am relieved to read your reply. There is, however, a lot more in your reply that is, as always very helpful. You have brought clarity and sanity to the matter of the differences between the books and the series. There are times when I am arguing with people (not here but elsewhere) that series 3 especially gives a very different account of Ross and Demelza's relationship from that in the books. Sometimes it is difficult to get the message across but I feel duty bound to put the record straight.



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Who appraised Ross of Agatha's death?  In the books, no-one; there was no need for it to be written, the book ended with the death.  In a country district such as Nampara/Trenwith, word would quickly have spread, even if no formal word came to Nampara.  The servants were all inter-related and the news would come to R&D more quickly than any letter.

As for the dinner at Tehidy; Francis Bassett was not petty minded and even though he had a feud with Lord Falmouth he wouldn't have let that prevent him from inviting a Boscawen relative if he wanted to.  At the time, there was no question of Hugh being put up for Parliament - he was returning to the Navy. The palace revolution for the Truro seats was still only a glimmer in Bassett's eye; one of the purposes of inviting R&D was to sound Ross out and offer him the chance of standing.  Ross quite rightly refused because he didn't want to become a pawn in the game.

To return to the relationship between R&D.  Several times through the books, Demelza longs for the days when they were first married, to be able immerse themselves in each other.  She hankers to keep Ross near her, not in a jealously possessive way, but just in the locale and not haring off on exploits.  Because the series has made Demelza so feisty and unpleasant, their enjoyment of each other's company is missing. As has been said, they didn't bicker and were a good team, but none of that side has been shown on TV.  It is either sly digging on her part or Ross totally ignoring her.  I loathed that scene on the beach.  Ross would never have talked to her like that but of course neither would Demelza ever have behaved like that.

Thank goodness for the books into which we can escape whenever we wish.  Even better, to imagine what is not written.  That way, each character always lives up to our expectations!



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I will have to look at the film again. I thought Geoffery Charles sent Ross the note. As for as H.A. he is always "bird-dogging " after Demelza, hee hee. I got the episodes mixed up with my last posting so I am not sure which one we are discussing. I thought the latest stuck more to the book and Demelza was better. 



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Hollyhock wrote:

... Interestingly, in this episode, DH & Company did attempt, unsuccessfully, to answer a couple of questions that puzzled me in the books. Why was HA at that dinner in the first place since Sir Francis Basset and Viscount Falmouth were bitter enemies. DH's answer doesn't ring true--Basset didn't particularly like Hugh.  And, how did Ross get the message that his aunt had died. George would never have written--well maybe to gloat--but he was still stewing over Agatha's bombshell. And Elizabeth was still terribly angry with Ross. 

 


Judd might have been the person who told Ross as he was a grave digger at that time. It is strange that WG did not specify how Ross heard the sad news.


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Hollyhock wrote:

... Interestingly, in this episode, DH & Company did attempt, unsuccessfully, to answer a couple of questions that puzzled me in the books. Why was HA at that dinner in the first place since Sir Francis Basset and Viscount Falmouth were bitter enemies. DH's answer doesn't ring true--Basset didn't particularly like Hugh.  And, how did Ross get the message that his aunt had died. George would never have written--well maybe to gloat--but he was still stewing over Agatha's bombshell. And Elizabeth was still terribly angry with Ross. 

 


Presumably, Hugh Armitage's 15 minutes of Quimper fame had not yet run out when the Bassets were assembling their dinner guest list. If they were inviting Ross and Dwight, the other two Quimper "celebrities," they had to invite Hugh or they would have looked crudely partisan, which is considered bad form where war and diplomacy are concerned. (Here in America, we say, "Politics end at the water's edge.) Then again, being a savvy politician, wouldn't Basset want to size up the post-Quimper Armitage? He had to recognize that Lord Falmouth would eventually try to run the Quimper survivor for Parliament. 

As for how the Nampara Poldarks found out Agatha was dead, I can't believe Elizabeth would let her anger at Ross get in the way of simple etiquette. As a former Poldark, she, not George, would be the one to write the letter, I would think. I suppose she could have written to Verity and asked her to tell Ross, but that would have required an explanation. WG seemed to lose interest in Agatha once she breathed her last so Debbie Horsfield was on her own. The only reference to the funeral I can find in "The Four Swans" is the lead-in to the churchyard encounter between Elizabeth and Ross on Page 196):

Just near Aunt Agathas grave, as Elizabeth had noticed at the time of the funeral, were three stunted hawthorn trees, so bent and slanted by the wind that they might have been clipped into their distorted shape by giant shears. Coming on them now, silhouetted against a sky gone sallow with the fall of evening, they produced a replica of Aunt Agatha herself, etched and magnified in black against the chalky light....



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"Perhaps  I won't have to look too far" says Demelza half under her breath in Series Three Episode  Seven. No-no- no this will not do. What a departure from the Demelza in the books. I hear Eleanor T. is responsible for this horrid dialogue in the beach scene depicting her confrontation with Ross. If so she betrays her immaturity in portraying Demelza with a 21st-century feminist "strong" women mode. If not immaturity maybe even worse it is due to her poor acting chops as she unable to portray a Demelza who is quite aware of the influence H.A. is having on her and is depending on her defenses to fend off his seduction, at least until that fateful boat trip to see the seals. I will write more on that after I see the scene portrayed in the film. As it is now Demelza is what? A co-conspirator? A co-seducer? Just a harlot, a slut, a shameful adulterer for sure.

I have notice E.T. appears to be made up older for this series which is OK but it appears to me to give her a hard edge. Not very attractive in my opinion.

 

I feel so fortunate to have read the books. My wife, Phyllis and my daughter Nancy, have not read the books so I am reinterpreting these scenes for them as they should have been done. I feel sorry for other viewers who are clueless due to not reading the books. 



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Little Henry wrote:

I actually love both of them when they're Ross and Demelza (which is probably why I keep watching)  but when they're Miss Feminist and Mr. Nasty, it's too dramatic for me and takes me right back into our time.  The charm of the story is lost.  Demelza's actions and speeches are too in your face and obvious. In Memoirs of a Private Man WG says someone described him as an "instinctive feminist" and he says that maybe that's right.  I often have been thinking that in the books Demelza is feminist as is.  She is naturally wise and Ross always seeks her opinion but in the series she screams it, i.e. "Will you never learn".  I heard Aidan Turner say something like 'no one wants to see a couple bickering all the time' and I thought it was interesting that in one of the later books it is noted that Ross and Demelza prided themselves on never bickering.  There was outright war but no bickering.


 It would appear that Eleanor has more influence over the scripts than Aidan, yet he is the more experienced actor. He comes across as quite laid back yet in saying that "no one wants to see a couple bickering all the time" he is making a stand, I think, and perhaps demanding to be listened to. He is right, I think - most people are fed up with the way this relationship is being portrayed. It is comforting to hear that some of us, at least, prefer the characters in the books and prefer the portrayal that Winston gave of a successful marriage. DH's marriage does not feel real to me.



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I actually love both of them when they're Ross and Demelza (which is probably why I keep watching)  but when they're Miss Feminist and Mr. Nasty, it's too dramatic for me and takes me right back into our time.  The charm of the story is lost.  Demelza's actions and speeches are too in your face and obvious. In Memoirs of a Private Man WG says someone described him as an "instinctive feminist" and he says that maybe that's right.  I often have been thinking that in the books Demelza is feminist as is.  She is naturally wise and Ross always seeks her opinion but in the series she screams it, i.e. "Will you never learn".  I heard Aidan Turner say something like 'no one wants to see a couple bickering all the time' and I thought it was interesting that in one of the later books it is noted that Ross and Demelza prided themselves on never bickering.  There was outright war but no bickering.



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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

I agree with your analysis, Little Henry.  In my opinion, viewers can forgive changing the story around a bit because of technical difficulties but to change the characters of the main couple cannot be forgiven.  There is so much detail in the books and the thoughts, actions and nuances of both Ross and Demelza so very well drawn by WG, there is no need whatever for interference by dramatists. WGs characters are flawed - that is why they are so believable.  Their attributes do not seem to be exploited by DH and I find they infinitely outweigh the bad.  I do not think their is much chemistry between R&D since the end of Series 1.  We lurch from crisis to gloom and despondency with nary a ray of sunshine between.

Somewhere I read that Eleanor Tomlinson wanted to play a particular section in a certain way (I forget which now) because it would add to her CV.  That ought not to be even considered when adapting such well-known material. 

This new adaptation was expected to be a triumph, after the bungling of the first few episodes in the original series. To be fair, the first episodes, once the mad racing around on horseback abated, were very promising.  I feel Mammoth got carried away with the success at the expense of accuracy.  So long as the team have the viewing figures necessary to continue, story integrity seems to have gone by the wayside.

No doubt this is a minority view and thousands of fans will be eagerly awaiting next year's series.  I call it a lost opportunity...


Mrs G -  I would hope that it would not be a minority view on this forum but I am happy to join this minority view as I agree with all you say including the loss of chemistry between R&D from series two onwards. I think Eleanor Tomlinson is too personally ambitious and may have more influence with Debbie H than she should have.



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Thanks for changing the topic site.  I went on the "odd word" site as I wanted to comment on Ross's character regarding his abandonment of big pronouncements because I just hadn't seen that.  I think when he gave up mining he was at an emotional and spiritual crisis (and financial) so when circumstances changed and he suddenly has been given some money, it made sense to me to change his mind.  I don't look on that as a character flaw or as having a lack of integrity.  I knew I was going to end up off topic by going on about the TV series as it is current in Canada right now.  There are some parts that I love but thank heavens for fast forward and mute on the TV if I re-watch an episode.  You may know that we get 7 or 8 minutes cut out of the U.K. version and I noticed two nice Ross and Demelza scenes that were cut.  I just hope they cut out some of the awful ones that are coming up (episode 7 is coming up on Sunday).  I am savouring the reading of TBM again and paying special attention to all that Ross says.



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I agree with your analysis, Little Henry.  In my opinion, viewers can forgive changing the story around a bit because of technical difficulties but to change the characters of the main couple cannot be forgiven.  There is so much detail in the books and the thoughts, actions and nuances of both Ross and Demelza so very well drawn by WG, there is no need whatever for interference by dramatists. WGs characters are flawed - that is why they are so believable.  Their attributes do not seem to be exploited by DH and I find they infinitely outweigh the bad.  I do not think there is much chemistry between R&D since the end of Series 1.  We lurch from crisis to gloom and despondency with nary a ray of sunshine between.

Somewhere I read that Eleanor Tomlinson wanted to play a particular section in a certain way (I forget which now) because it would add to her CV.  That ought not to be even considered when adapting such well-known material. 

This new adaptation was expected to be a triumph, after the bungling of the first few episodes in the original series. To be fair, the first episodes, once the mad racing around on horseback abated, were very promising.  I feel Mammoth got carried away with the success at the expense of accuracy.  So long as the team have the viewing figures necessary to continue, story integrity seems to have gone by the wayside.

No doubt this is a minority view and thousands of fans will be eagerly awaiting next year's series.  I call it a lost opportunity...



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Thursday 16th of November 2017 10:02:27 AM

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The posts below have been amended until certain facts can be verified.

Mrs G

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Stella Poldark wrote:
JanetMaison wrote:
Stella Poldark wrote:
Mrs Gimlett wrote:

There is a great deal more mingling of all the characters on screen than ever happened in the books.  I know that there are only so many in the cast, but WGs plot writing relies on the characters not meeting all the time and therefore not having all the facts of certain events before them.  For instance, Demelza had no idea how miserable Morwenna was until much later.  She had only just about passed the time of day with her until her visit to Pally's shop. 

I can understand why the TV series has to be like this, but it highlights how difficult it is to represent a slice of 18th Century Cornish community in all its facets.  Andrew Graham is still listed as a consultant, so it must be assumed he has approved all the changes in this third series.  I think WG would be very troubled by much of it.

 


Stella - can you talk more about what you've read.  


 


 Mrs G - It is only lack of memory that prevents me posting what I've heard and perhaps I should not have posted without giving an example. I will try to find out some detail from someone with a better memory than I.


 



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Stella Poldark wrote:
JanetMaison wrote:
Stella Poldark wrote:
Mrs Gimlett wrote:

There is a great deal more mingling of all the characters on screen than ever happened in the books.  I know that there are only so many in the cast, but WGs plot writing relies on the characters not meeting all the time and therefore not having all the facts of certain events before them.  For instance, Demelza had no idea how miserable Morwenna was until much later.  She had only just about passed the time of day with her until her visit to Pally's shop. 

I can understand why the TV series has to be like this, but it highlights how difficult it is to represent a slice of 18th Century Cornish community in all its facets.  Andrew Graham is still listed as a consultant, so it must be assumed he has approved all the changes in this third series.  I think WG would be very troubled by much of it.

 


Stella - can you talk more about what you've read.  


 


 Mrs G - It is only lack of memory that prevents me posting what I've heard and perhaps I should not have posted without giving an example. I will try to find out some detail from someone with a better memory than I.


 



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JanetMaison wrote:
Stella Poldark wrote:
Mrs Gimlett wrote:

There is a great deal more mingling of all the characters on screen than ever happened in the books.  I know that there are only so many in the cast, but WGs plot writing relies on the characters not meeting all the time and therefore not having all the facts of certain events before them.  For instance, Demelza had no idea how miserable Morwenna was until much later.  She had only just about passed the time of day with her until her visit to Pally's shop. 

I can understand why the TV series has to be like this, but it highlights how difficult it is to represent a slice of 18th Century Cornish community in all its facets.  Andrew Graham is still listed as a consultant, so it must be assumed he has approved all the changes in this third series.  I think WG would be very troubled by much of it.

 


Stella - can you talk more about what you've read.  


 


 Mrs G - It is only lack of memory that prevents me posting what I've heard and perhaps I should not have posted without giving an example. I will try to find out some detail from someone with a better memory than I.



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Wednesday 2nd of August 2017 07:17:03 PM

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Stella Poldark wrote:
Mrs Gimlett wrote:

There is a great deal more mingling of all the characters on screen than ever happened in the books.  I know that there are only so many in the cast, but WGs plot writing relies on the characters not meeting all the time and therefore not having all the facts of certain events before them.  For instance, Demelza had no idea how miserable Morwenna was until much later.  She had only just about passed the time of day with her until her visit to Pally's shop. 

I can understand why the TV series has to be like this, but it highlights how difficult it is to represent a slice of 18th Century Cornish community in all its facets.  Andrew Graham is still listed as a consultant, so it must be assumed he has approved all the changes in this third series.  I think WG would be very troubled by much of it.

 


Stella - can you talk more about what you've read.  


 



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Wednesday 2nd of August 2017 07:18:28 PM

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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

There is a great deal more mingling of all the characters on screen than ever happened in the books.  I know that there are only so many in the cast, but WGs plot writing relies on the characters not meeting all the time and therefore not having all the facts of certain events before them.  For instance, Demelza had no idea how miserable Morwenna was until much later.  She had only just about passed the time of day with her until her visit to Pally's shop. 

I can understand why the TV series has to be like this, but it highlights how difficult it is to represent a slice of 18th Century Cornish community in all its facets.  Andrew Graham is still listed as a consultant, so it must be assumed he has approved all the changes in this third series.  I think WG would be very troubled by much of it.

 

 




 


 



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Wednesday 2nd of August 2017 07:19:39 PM

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I agree Rowella is deflecting Osborne's attention from Morwenna.  However, many points are being missed.  Firstly, she was dressed in a very demure way in the books for the very reason that Ossie, when applying his eye to the hole in the wall was shocked to see her figure revealed when she undressed for the tub. He then became 'interested' in her,  fantasising about her naked and becoming very unsettled.  Since she wears a low-cut dress on TV, that effect was lost. 

Secondly, Rowella was very clever and a scholar.  All that has been revealed about her on TV is that Morwenna has obviously confided in her (something she would never have done) and she is determined to 'have' Ossie.  In the books, all this is much more subtle, which we know DH doesn't appear to understand.

Osborne himself is a little less conceited and loud than book Ossie.  As Fijane says, he always had to justify his actions in a theological way, which made Morwenna's flesh creep (along with the reader).  He had some great lines in the books, too, which tended to put George down somewhat.  He treated George as a conduit to plurality, which George began to despise; a good example of being careful what you wish for.  He discovered being very tenuously connected to the Godolphins benefited him not at all.  All of this has been by-passed in pursuit of more overt sexual violence.

There is a great deal more mingling of all the characters on screen than ever happened in the books.  I know that there are only so many in the cast, but WGs plot writing relies on the characters not meeting all the time and therefore not having all the facts of certain events before them.  For instance, Demelza had no idea how miserable Morwenna was until much later.  She had only just about passed the time of day with her until her visit to Pally's shop. 

I can understand why the TV series has to be like this, but it highlights how difficult it is to represent a slice of 18th Century Cornish community in all its facets.  Andrew Graham is still listed as a consultant, so it must be assumed he has approved all the changes in this third series.  I think WG would be very troubled by much of it.

 

 



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Tuesday 1st of August 2017 09:47:36 AM

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Fijane wrote:

 

... Rowella implying that she will be a real help to Morwenna (the books specifically state that Morwenna finds her hard to understand, and wishes it was Garlanda who had come). I've read the comments of some non-book-readers who are expecting Rowella to be some sort of self-sacrificing sister who will "save" Morwenna by deflecting Ossie;  George dumping Agatha's coffin in the graveyard (totally unrealistic - she was a well-known person in the social circle and a full funeral would be expected, and to not have one would have been a big scandal).

I think they missed a great opportunity to show Ossie's true nature. Making him threaten violence just brings him down to the level of any domestic abuser. Much more chilling was his "...let us just say a little prayer together, and then you shall be a wife to me..." with Morwenna trying to back up the bed. They are missing the way he justifies his behaviour using his theological knowledge...


I like Debbie Horsfield's Rowella better than Winston Graham's. He painted this mousy little thing who was really a cross between an 18th-century forerunner of the Lolita Humbert Humbert saw (rather than the girl Lolita really was) and an opportunist in the mold of the Chynoweth sisters' conman grandfather. DH made her a pretty little thing and added a little loyalty to WG's original mix so Rowella will be punishing Ossie for Morwenna's sake as well as fleecing him for her own -- I just hope DH gives her the chance to let Morwenna know she did what she is going to do it to help her, not hurt her, as well as to help herself to odious Ossie's money. 

As for Ossie's true nature, wait until the next episode. 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Tuesday 1st of August 2017 06:57:06 AM

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So many weird extras inserted into this episode.

Firstly, credit where credit is due, George and Agatha's final showdown was as good as anything we have seen so far. My opinion of them both as actors is growing with each episode, and I sat open-mouthed throughout, despite knowing what was going to happen. The only problem was Elizabeth finding out that Agatha had told George - it is a very important forward storyline that Elizabeth has no idea why George suddenly became so suspicious.

Once again we have split-personality Demelza. Unfortunately, nasty Demelza dominated in this episode, but I was glad that Ross finally turned on her on the beach. Stating that he would not be her "pet" was so satisfying. It is sad that it has come to the point where I am glad that Demelza was knocked down a peg.

Other weird things: Sam describing Drake's medallion as the "blessed virgin and the holy child" - not exactly Methodist terminology; Emma Tregirls is short and plump instead of tall and strong, and suddenly Sam was smitten - no indication of how he becomes attracted to her; Rowella implying that she will be a real help to Morwenna (the books specifically state that Morwenna finds her hard to understand, and wishes it was Garlanda who had come). I've read the comments of some non-book-readers who are expecting Rowella to be some sort of self-sacrificing sister who will "save" Morwenna by deflecting Ossie;  George dumping Agatha's coffin in the graveyard (totally unrealistic - she was a well-known person in the social circle and a full funeral would be expected, and to not have one would have been a big scandal).

I think they missed a great opportunity to show Ossie's true nature. Making him threaten violence just brings him down to the level of any domestic abuser. Much more chilling was his "...let us just say a little prayer together, and then you shall be a wife to me..." with Morwenna trying to back up the bed. They are missing the way he justifies his behaviour using his theological knowledge.

Like Elizabeth, they are making Hugh too nice and missing the smarminess that is evident in the books. And, of course, as you have all discussed below, Demelza's response may as well come from a totally fictitious character - she bears no resemblance to the Demelza we love.



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Date: Jul 26 6:37 PM, 2017
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Moorland Rambler wrote:

Hollyhock - You are so right in your description of HA and his sketching. But what about the reaction of Demelza. At first I thought she was having her thigh felt by General Macarmick but he was nowhere to be seen. She was pouting and fluttering her eyes like a teenager sat opposite Justin Bieber.

And during the skittle game did Demelza deliberately stand on her own, twice, so that HA could whisper sweet nothings in her ear? She couldn't resist mentioning a snake! I was almost waiting for HA to suggest a bit more 'sketching' somewhere quieter, perhaps upstairs.

Near the end  in the 'What do you want?' scene, does Demelza's 'Perhaps I won't have to look too far,' remark blow a hole in any possibility that later on she will say, 'I never intended. This crept on me unawares. I never thought - you must know I never thought....' (TFS Bk 3 Ch10 II.)

I will miss Aunt Agatha, those scenes of hers lifted whole episodes.

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Exactly so. I could go along with everything up to the beach scene between Demelza and Ross. Up to that the interaction between the characters was "similar" to what is portrayed in the book, but setting up Ross as the one pushing Demelza to Hugh takes this down a whole different path. I am sure that there will be no bedroom discussion between Ross and Demelza where she says "Oh, Ross, Im so sad! For him? Well, I wish I were two people. Tell me. One, your loving wife, that I always wish to be and always shall be. And mother. Content, content, content But for a day There was a long silence. For a day youd like to be his lover. No. Not that. But Id like to be another person, not Demelza Poldark, but someone new, who could respond to him and make him happy, just for a day..." (TFS, 231) Which, of course, is exactly what happens in the book, but cannot hardly happen in DH's word.   Or could it ,.... We will have to wait and see. 

 


 



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 Stella - I came to the books after series 1, as well. Series 1 does not offend me, but I wonder if that's because it was first for me. I wonder if the books-first people were offended by series 1. Mrs. G? Ross?


For me it's two completely different worlds and I guess much the same as reading any series of novels before watching any film version. You first have your own solid imagination imprints of all that happens in the books and what comes after is a bit like oil and water, the initial oil is much thicker and denser whereas the later water just seems to sit on top and stays that way, well for me at least. Conversely being a mild fan of Thomas Hardy I saw the film "Far From The Madding Crowd" with Julie Christie and Alan Bates first which I found very enjoyable before reading the books, because it immediately brought the books to life as sometimes his writing can be quite hard to follow in places.

However with the Poldark novels I'd read the first 11 books as Bella still hadn't been published before discovering a film had been made in the 70s, which if you like was world 1 or the bottom layer of imagination/oil. So watching the first 70s series being a completely visual world or the water floating on the surface was really of unrelated passing interest, however over the years since then I think the oil must have solidified so I guess any water lying around since then has presumably long since evaporated. But this is just my own view of course.



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Moorland Rambler--yes, Demelza is already besotted; all it took was that unidentifiable sketch to start her heart pounding. Hugh probably used that anonymous drawing for all his gullible-woman-in-every-port conquests. But no matter, even with her "Perhaps I won't have to look too far" declaration, D will shift the blame for her Hugh attraction to Ross. As in the book, she will not apologize, but will probably give Ross a punch or two for 'forcing' her hand. If Demelza hasn't beaten all the sense out of him, Ross will flee back to the comparative safety of Quimper as soon as she skips happily off to seal cove.

Similar to fake news, I think DH & Company have created a new genre--the fake historical melodrama featuring a bitter 21st century protagonist stuck in an 18th century body. Mistress Demelza is starting to make Elizabeth look nice.

Interestingly, in this episode, DH & Company did attempt, unsuccessfully, to answer a couple of questions that puzzled me in the books. Why was HA at that dinner in the first place since Sir Francis Basset and Viscount Falmouth were bitter enemies. DH's answer doesn't ring true--Basset didn't particularly like Hugh.  And, how did Ross get the message that his aunt had died. George would never have written--well maybe to gloat--but he was still stewing over Agatha's bombshell. And Elizabeth was still terribly angry with Ross. 

 



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Stella Poldark wrote:
JanetMaison wrote:
Stella Poldark wrote:

I found this episode bore almost no resemblance to the books and it left me feeling very angry. What do others think?


I've been angry since Series 2, Episode 1.  I gave up hoping to see - on the tv screen - the books' characters and story that I love. After Series 1, the essential natures of characters were utterly changed.  Who knows what was in DH's mind.  In my mind, there's enough drama, character and intrigue on the WG's written pages. Since I'm in the USA, it's not on tv yet here, and I'm staying away from alternative ways of watching.  It's too painful.  Your comments are confirming that that was a good decision.  I'm grateful that there's a forum like this where I can just read about the books.


 Janet - I agree with all you say. After series one it went rapidly down hill. It was series one that took me to the books. It is very unsettling to see a production supposedly based on books but which is, in reality, a corruption of those books. From what I hear from other sources there are two camps - those that love the series and those that detest it. It is certainly creating strong feelings. I cannot now stop watching but there are only two more episodes. As you haven't watched it yet and love the books I would advise giving it a miss.



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Monday 24th of July 2017 09:18:03 PM


 Stella - I came to the books after series 1, as well. Series 1 does not offend me, but I wonder if that's because it was first for me. I wonder if the books-first people were offended by series 1. Mrs. G? Ross?



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....biggrin



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Hollyhock - You are so right in your description of HA and his sketching. But what about the reaction of Demelza. At first I thought she was having her thigh felt by General Macarmick but he was nowhere to be seen. She was pouting and fluttering her eyes like a teenager sat opposite Justin Bieber.

And during the skittle game did Demelza deliberately stand on her own, twice, so that HA could whisper sweet nothings in her ear? She couldn't resist mentioning a snake! I was almost waiting for HA to suggest a bit more 'sketching' somewhere quieter, perhaps upstairs.

Near the end  in the 'What do you want?' scene, does Demelza's 'Perhaps I won't have to look too far,' remark blow a hole in any possibility that later on she will say, 'I never intended. This crept on me unawares. I never thought - you must know I never thought....' (TFS Bk 3 Ch10 II.)

I will miss Aunt Agatha, those scenes of hers lifted whole episodes.

 



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Date: Jul 25 3:22 PM, 2017
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Caroline Blakiston will probably be nominated for an award for her portrayal of Aunt Agatha's final showdown with George. Backed into a corner she comes out battling the slimy, evil demon and gives him that strategic wound that almost does him in. And did George's eyes actually flash demonic red after Aunt Agatha's well aimed, final barb? The book's description of that epic battle is better but CB does not dissappoint.  

Demelza is still devoting her harpy existence to brow beating Ross. So much so that she does not even commiserate with him on the death of his aunt. Instead, while he is traumatized and heartbroken by yet anoher Poldark death, she uses the event to berate him on his political views. Really?  Her new love interest, Hugh, is even more sophomoric than the real one. Who but a social moron sits through an entire formal dinner sketching pictures of another's man's wife? He is a creepy stalker and a sensible woman would shriek and run a mile when he slithered into view.

 

 

 

 



-- Edited by Hollyhock on Tuesday 25th of July 2017 06:37:35 PM

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Have yet to see this episode.  Have visitors all week.  However, I am not expecting great things, especially after reading this.

 



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Date: Jul 24 9:16 PM, 2017
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JanetMaison wrote:
Stella Poldark wrote:

I found this episode bore almost no resemblance to the books and it left me feeling very angry. What do others think?


I've been angry since Series 2, Episode 1.  I gave up hoping to see - on the tv screen - the books' characters and story that I love. After Series 1, the essential natures of characters were utterly changed.  Who knows what was in DH's mind.  In my mind, there's enough drama, character and intrigue on the WG's written pages. Since I'm in the USA, it's not on tv yet here, and I'm staying away from alternative ways of watching.  It's too painful.  Your comments are confirming that that was a good decision.  I'm grateful that there's a forum like this where I can just read about the books.


 Janet - I agree with all you say. After series one it went rapidly down hill. It was series one that took me to the books. It is very unsettling to see a production supposedly based on books but which is, in reality, a corruption of those books. From what I hear from other sources there are two camps - those that love the series and those that detest it. It is certainly creating strong feelings. I cannot now stop watching but there are only two more episodes. As you haven't watched it yet and love the books I would advise giving it a miss.



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Monday 24th of July 2017 09:18:03 PM

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Date: Jul 24 8:22 PM, 2017
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Stella Poldark wrote:

I found this episode bore almost no resemblance to the books and it left me feeling very angry. What do others think?


I've been angry since Series 2, Episode 1.  I gave up hoping to see - on the tv screen - the books' characters and story that I love. After Series 1, the essential natures of characters were utterly changed.  Who knows what was in DH's mind.  In my mind, there's enough drama, character and intrigue on the WG's written pages. Since I'm in the USA, it's not on tv yet here, and I'm staying away from alternative ways of watching.  It's too painful.  Your comments are confirming that that was a good decision.  I'm grateful that there's a forum like this where I can just read about the books.



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Date: Jul 24 6:19 PM, 2017
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Stella Poldark wrote:


I found this episode bore almost no resemblance to the books and it left me feeling very angry. What do others think?


 The same for me. Thankfully I have read till The Angry Tide. The concept I get when watching the series, is that Ross is encouraging Demelza to cheat on him with Hugh Armitage.

For the people who haven't read the books, makes them think Ross is so dumb and Demelza a kind of an 18th century feminist, who on some ways make men fall like flies for her. 

 

I don't like the concept that they made Elizabeth a kind of an alcoholic or addicted to laudanum.

 

So this is my opinion and a little ranting of the series.



-- Edited by ModernPoldark on Monday 24th of July 2017 06:22:17 PM



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I found this episode bore almost no resemblance to the books and it left me feeling very angry. What do others think?



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