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Post Info TOPIC: Poldark T.V. Series 3 Episode 7


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RE: Poldark T.V. Series 3 Episode 7
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The posts below have been amended until certain facts can be verified.

Mrs G

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Stella Poldark wrote:
JanetMaison wrote:
Stella Poldark wrote:
Mrs Gimlett wrote:

There is a great deal more mingling of all the characters on screen than ever happened in the books.  I know that there are only so many in the cast, but WGs plot writing relies on the characters not meeting all the time and therefore not having all the facts of certain events before them.  For instance, Demelza had no idea how miserable Morwenna was until much later.  She had only just about passed the time of day with her until her visit to Pally's shop. 

I can understand why the TV series has to be like this, but it highlights how difficult it is to represent a slice of 18th Century Cornish community in all its facets.  Andrew Graham is still listed as a consultant, so it must be assumed he has approved all the changes in this third series.  I think WG would be very troubled by much of it.

 


Stella - can you talk more about what you've read.  


 


 Mrs G - It is only lack of memory that prevents me posting what I've heard and perhaps I should not have posted without giving an example. I will try to find out some detail from someone with a better memory than I.


 



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Stella Poldark wrote:
JanetMaison wrote:
Stella Poldark wrote:
Mrs Gimlett wrote:

There is a great deal more mingling of all the characters on screen than ever happened in the books.  I know that there are only so many in the cast, but WGs plot writing relies on the characters not meeting all the time and therefore not having all the facts of certain events before them.  For instance, Demelza had no idea how miserable Morwenna was until much later.  She had only just about passed the time of day with her until her visit to Pally's shop. 

I can understand why the TV series has to be like this, but it highlights how difficult it is to represent a slice of 18th Century Cornish community in all its facets.  Andrew Graham is still listed as a consultant, so it must be assumed he has approved all the changes in this third series.  I think WG would be very troubled by much of it.

 


Stella - can you talk more about what you've read.  


 


 Mrs G - It is only lack of memory that prevents me posting what I've heard and perhaps I should not have posted without giving an example. I will try to find out some detail from someone with a better memory than I.


 



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JanetMaison wrote:
Stella Poldark wrote:
Mrs Gimlett wrote:

There is a great deal more mingling of all the characters on screen than ever happened in the books.  I know that there are only so many in the cast, but WGs plot writing relies on the characters not meeting all the time and therefore not having all the facts of certain events before them.  For instance, Demelza had no idea how miserable Morwenna was until much later.  She had only just about passed the time of day with her until her visit to Pally's shop. 

I can understand why the TV series has to be like this, but it highlights how difficult it is to represent a slice of 18th Century Cornish community in all its facets.  Andrew Graham is still listed as a consultant, so it must be assumed he has approved all the changes in this third series.  I think WG would be very troubled by much of it.

 


Stella - can you talk more about what you've read.  


 


 Mrs G - It is only lack of memory that prevents me posting what I've heard and perhaps I should not have posted without giving an example. I will try to find out some detail from someone with a better memory than I.



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Wednesday 2nd of August 2017 07:17:03 PM

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Stella Poldark wrote:
Mrs Gimlett wrote:

There is a great deal more mingling of all the characters on screen than ever happened in the books.  I know that there are only so many in the cast, but WGs plot writing relies on the characters not meeting all the time and therefore not having all the facts of certain events before them.  For instance, Demelza had no idea how miserable Morwenna was until much later.  She had only just about passed the time of day with her until her visit to Pally's shop. 

I can understand why the TV series has to be like this, but it highlights how difficult it is to represent a slice of 18th Century Cornish community in all its facets.  Andrew Graham is still listed as a consultant, so it must be assumed he has approved all the changes in this third series.  I think WG would be very troubled by much of it.

 


Stella - can you talk more about what you've read.  


 



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Wednesday 2nd of August 2017 07:18:28 PM

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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

There is a great deal more mingling of all the characters on screen than ever happened in the books.  I know that there are only so many in the cast, but WGs plot writing relies on the characters not meeting all the time and therefore not having all the facts of certain events before them.  For instance, Demelza had no idea how miserable Morwenna was until much later.  She had only just about passed the time of day with her until her visit to Pally's shop. 

I can understand why the TV series has to be like this, but it highlights how difficult it is to represent a slice of 18th Century Cornish community in all its facets.  Andrew Graham is still listed as a consultant, so it must be assumed he has approved all the changes in this third series.  I think WG would be very troubled by much of it.

 

 




 


 



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Wednesday 2nd of August 2017 07:19:39 PM

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I agree Rowella is deflecting Osborne's attention from Morwenna.  However, many points are being missed.  Firstly, she was dressed in a very demure way in the books for the very reason that Ossie, when applying his eye to the hole in the wall was shocked to see her figure revealed when she undressed for the tub. He then became 'interested' in her,  fantasising about her naked and becoming very unsettled.  Since she wears a low-cut dress on TV, that effect was lost. 

Secondly, Rowella was very clever and a scholar.  All that has been revealed about her on TV is that Morwenna has obviously confided in her (something she would never have done) and she is determined to 'have' Ossie.  In the books, all this is much more subtle, which we know DH doesn't appear to understand.

Osborne himself is a little less conceited and loud than book Ossie.  As Fijane says, he always had to justify his actions in a theological way, which made Morwenna's flesh creep (along with the reader).  He had some great lines in the books, too, which tended to put George down somewhat.  He treated George as a conduit to plurality, which George began to despise; a good example of being careful what you wish for.  He discovered being very tenuously connected to the Godolphins benefited him not at all.  All of this has been by-passed in pursuit of more overt sexual violence.

There is a great deal more mingling of all the characters on screen than ever happened in the books.  I know that there are only so many in the cast, but WGs plot writing relies on the characters not meeting all the time and therefore not having all the facts of certain events before them.  For instance, Demelza had no idea how miserable Morwenna was until much later.  She had only just about passed the time of day with her until her visit to Pally's shop. 

I can understand why the TV series has to be like this, but it highlights how difficult it is to represent a slice of 18th Century Cornish community in all its facets.  Andrew Graham is still listed as a consultant, so it must be assumed he has approved all the changes in this third series.  I think WG would be very troubled by much of it.

 

 



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Tuesday 1st of August 2017 09:47:36 AM

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Fijane wrote:

 

... Rowella implying that she will be a real help to Morwenna (the books specifically state that Morwenna finds her hard to understand, and wishes it was Garlanda who had come). I've read the comments of some non-book-readers who are expecting Rowella to be some sort of self-sacrificing sister who will "save" Morwenna by deflecting Ossie;  George dumping Agatha's coffin in the graveyard (totally unrealistic - she was a well-known person in the social circle and a full funeral would be expected, and to not have one would have been a big scandal).

I think they missed a great opportunity to show Ossie's true nature. Making him threaten violence just brings him down to the level of any domestic abuser. Much more chilling was his "...let us just say a little prayer together, and then you shall be a wife to me..." with Morwenna trying to back up the bed. They are missing the way he justifies his behaviour using his theological knowledge...


I like Debbie Horsfield's Rowella better than Winston Graham's. He painted this mousy little thing who was really a cross between an 18th-century forerunner of the Lolita Humbert Humbert saw (rather than the girl Lolita really was) and an opportunist in the mold of the Chynoweth sisters' conman grandfather. DH made her a pretty little thing and added a little loyalty to WG's original mix so Rowella will be punishing Ossie for Morwenna's sake as well as fleecing him for her own -- I just hope DH gives her the chance to let Morwenna know she did what she is going to do it to help her, not hurt her, as well as to help herself to odious Ossie's money. 

As for Ossie's true nature, wait until the next episode. 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Tuesday 1st of August 2017 06:57:06 AM

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So many weird extras inserted into this episode.

Firstly, credit where credit is due, George and Agatha's final showdown was as good as anything we have seen so far. My opinion of them both as actors is growing with each episode, and I sat open-mouthed throughout, despite knowing what was going to happen. The only problem was Elizabeth finding out that Agatha had told George - it is a very important forward storyline that Elizabeth has no idea why George suddenly became so suspicious.

Once again we have split-personality Demelza. Unfortunately, nasty Demelza dominated in this episode, but I was glad that Ross finally turned on her on the beach. Stating that he would not be her "pet" was so satisfying. It is sad that it has come to the point where I am glad that Demelza was knocked down a peg.

Other weird things: Sam describing Drake's medallion as the "blessed virgin and the holy child" - not exactly Methodist terminology; Emma Tregirls is short and plump instead of tall and strong, and suddenly Sam was smitten - no indication of how he becomes attracted to her; Rowella implying that she will be a real help to Morwenna (the books specifically state that Morwenna finds her hard to understand, and wishes it was Garlanda who had come). I've read the comments of some non-book-readers who are expecting Rowella to be some sort of self-sacrificing sister who will "save" Morwenna by deflecting Ossie;  George dumping Agatha's coffin in the graveyard (totally unrealistic - she was a well-known person in the social circle and a full funeral would be expected, and to not have one would have been a big scandal).

I think they missed a great opportunity to show Ossie's true nature. Making him threaten violence just brings him down to the level of any domestic abuser. Much more chilling was his "...let us just say a little prayer together, and then you shall be a wife to me..." with Morwenna trying to back up the bed. They are missing the way he justifies his behaviour using his theological knowledge.

Like Elizabeth, they are making Hugh too nice and missing the smarminess that is evident in the books. And, of course, as you have all discussed below, Demelza's response may as well come from a totally fictitious character - she bears no resemblance to the Demelza we love.



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Moorland Rambler wrote:

Hollyhock - You are so right in your description of HA and his sketching. But what about the reaction of Demelza. At first I thought she was having her thigh felt by General Macarmick but he was nowhere to be seen. She was pouting and fluttering her eyes like a teenager sat opposite Justin Bieber.

And during the skittle game did Demelza deliberately stand on her own, twice, so that HA could whisper sweet nothings in her ear? She couldn't resist mentioning a snake! I was almost waiting for HA to suggest a bit more 'sketching' somewhere quieter, perhaps upstairs.

Near the end  in the 'What do you want?' scene, does Demelza's 'Perhaps I won't have to look too far,' remark blow a hole in any possibility that later on she will say, 'I never intended. This crept on me unawares. I never thought - you must know I never thought....' (TFS Bk 3 Ch10 II.)

I will miss Aunt Agatha, those scenes of hers lifted whole episodes.

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Exactly so. I could go along with everything up to the beach scene between Demelza and Ross. Up to that the interaction between the characters was "similar" to what is portrayed in the book, but setting up Ross as the one pushing Demelza to Hugh takes this down a whole different path. I am sure that there will be no bedroom discussion between Ross and Demelza where she says "Oh, Ross, Im so sad! For him? Well, I wish I were two people. Tell me. One, your loving wife, that I always wish to be and always shall be. And mother. Content, content, content But for a day There was a long silence. For a day youd like to be his lover. No. Not that. But Id like to be another person, not Demelza Poldark, but someone new, who could respond to him and make him happy, just for a day..." (TFS, 231) Which, of course, is exactly what happens in the book, but cannot hardly happen in DH's word.   Or could it ,.... We will have to wait and see. 

 


 



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 Stella - I came to the books after series 1, as well. Series 1 does not offend me, but I wonder if that's because it was first for me. I wonder if the books-first people were offended by series 1. Mrs. G? Ross?


For me it's two completely different worlds and I guess much the same as reading any series of novels before watching any film version. You first have your own solid imagination imprints of all that happens in the books and what comes after is a bit like oil and water, the initial oil is much thicker and denser whereas the later water just seems to sit on top and stays that way, well for me at least. Conversely being a mild fan of Thomas Hardy I saw the film "Far From The Madding Crowd" with Julie Christie and Alan Bates first which I found very enjoyable before reading the books, because it immediately brought the books to life as sometimes his writing can be quite hard to follow in places.

However with the Poldark novels I'd read the first 11 books as Bella still hadn't been published before discovering a film had been made in the 70s, which if you like was world 1 or the bottom layer of imagination/oil. So watching the first 70s series being a completely visual world or the water floating on the surface was really of unrelated passing interest, however over the years since then I think the oil must have solidified so I guess any water lying around since then has presumably long since evaporated. But this is just my own view of course.



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Moorland Rambler--yes, Demelza is already besotted; all it took was that unidentifiable sketch to start her heart pounding. Hugh probably used that anonymous drawing for all his gullible-woman-in-every-port conquests. But no matter, even with her "Perhaps I won't have to look too far" declaration, D will shift the blame for her Hugh attraction to Ross. As in the book, she will not apologize, but will probably give Ross a punch or two for 'forcing' her hand. If Demelza hasn't beaten all the sense out of him, Ross will flee back to the comparative safety of Quimper as soon as she skips happily off to seal cove.

Similar to fake news, I think DH & Company have created a new genre--the fake historical melodrama featuring a bitter 21st century protagonist stuck in an 18th century body. Mistress Demelza is starting to make Elizabeth look nice.

Interestingly, in this episode, DH & Company did attempt, unsuccessfully, to answer a couple of questions that puzzled me in the books. Why was HA at that dinner in the first place since Sir Francis Basset and Viscount Falmouth were bitter enemies. DH's answer doesn't ring true--Basset didn't particularly like Hugh.  And, how did Ross get the message that his aunt had died. George would never have written--well maybe to gloat--but he was still stewing over Agatha's bombshell. And Elizabeth was still terribly angry with Ross. 

 



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Stella Poldark wrote:
JanetMaison wrote:
Stella Poldark wrote:

I found this episode bore almost no resemblance to the books and it left me feeling very angry. What do others think?


I've been angry since Series 2, Episode 1.  I gave up hoping to see - on the tv screen - the books' characters and story that I love. After Series 1, the essential natures of characters were utterly changed.  Who knows what was in DH's mind.  In my mind, there's enough drama, character and intrigue on the WG's written pages. Since I'm in the USA, it's not on tv yet here, and I'm staying away from alternative ways of watching.  It's too painful.  Your comments are confirming that that was a good decision.  I'm grateful that there's a forum like this where I can just read about the books.


 Janet - I agree with all you say. After series one it went rapidly down hill. It was series one that took me to the books. It is very unsettling to see a production supposedly based on books but which is, in reality, a corruption of those books. From what I hear from other sources there are two camps - those that love the series and those that detest it. It is certainly creating strong feelings. I cannot now stop watching but there are only two more episodes. As you haven't watched it yet and love the books I would advise giving it a miss.



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Monday 24th of July 2017 09:18:03 PM


 Stella - I came to the books after series 1, as well. Series 1 does not offend me, but I wonder if that's because it was first for me. I wonder if the books-first people were offended by series 1. Mrs. G? Ross?



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....biggrin



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Hollyhock - You are so right in your description of HA and his sketching. But what about the reaction of Demelza. At first I thought she was having her thigh felt by General Macarmick but he was nowhere to be seen. She was pouting and fluttering her eyes like a teenager sat opposite Justin Bieber.

And during the skittle game did Demelza deliberately stand on her own, twice, so that HA could whisper sweet nothings in her ear? She couldn't resist mentioning a snake! I was almost waiting for HA to suggest a bit more 'sketching' somewhere quieter, perhaps upstairs.

Near the end  in the 'What do you want?' scene, does Demelza's 'Perhaps I won't have to look too far,' remark blow a hole in any possibility that later on she will say, 'I never intended. This crept on me unawares. I never thought - you must know I never thought....' (TFS Bk 3 Ch10 II.)

I will miss Aunt Agatha, those scenes of hers lifted whole episodes.

 



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Caroline Blakiston will probably be nominated for an award for her portrayal of Aunt Agatha's final showdown with George. Backed into a corner she comes out battling the slimy, evil demon and gives him that strategic wound that almost does him in. And did George's eyes actually flash demonic red after Aunt Agatha's well aimed, final barb? The book's description of that epic battle is better but CB does not dissappoint.  

Demelza is still devoting her harpy existence to brow beating Ross. So much so that she does not even commiserate with him on the death of his aunt. Instead, while he is traumatized and heartbroken by yet anoher Poldark death, she uses the event to berate him on his political views. Really?  Her new love interest, Hugh, is even more sophomoric than the real one. Who but a social moron sits through an entire formal dinner sketching pictures of another's man's wife? He is a creepy stalker and a sensible woman would shriek and run a mile when he slithered into view.

 

 

 

 



-- Edited by Hollyhock on Tuesday 25th of July 2017 06:37:35 PM

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Have yet to see this episode.  Have visitors all week.  However, I am not expecting great things, especially after reading this.

 



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JanetMaison wrote:
Stella Poldark wrote:

I found this episode bore almost no resemblance to the books and it left me feeling very angry. What do others think?


I've been angry since Series 2, Episode 1.  I gave up hoping to see - on the tv screen - the books' characters and story that I love. After Series 1, the essential natures of characters were utterly changed.  Who knows what was in DH's mind.  In my mind, there's enough drama, character and intrigue on the WG's written pages. Since I'm in the USA, it's not on tv yet here, and I'm staying away from alternative ways of watching.  It's too painful.  Your comments are confirming that that was a good decision.  I'm grateful that there's a forum like this where I can just read about the books.


 Janet - I agree with all you say. After series one it went rapidly down hill. It was series one that took me to the books. It is very unsettling to see a production supposedly based on books but which is, in reality, a corruption of those books. From what I hear from other sources there are two camps - those that love the series and those that detest it. It is certainly creating strong feelings. I cannot now stop watching but there are only two more episodes. As you haven't watched it yet and love the books I would advise giving it a miss.



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Monday 24th of July 2017 09:18:03 PM

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Stella Poldark wrote:

I found this episode bore almost no resemblance to the books and it left me feeling very angry. What do others think?


I've been angry since Series 2, Episode 1.  I gave up hoping to see - on the tv screen - the books' characters and story that I love. After Series 1, the essential natures of characters were utterly changed.  Who knows what was in DH's mind.  In my mind, there's enough drama, character and intrigue on the WG's written pages. Since I'm in the USA, it's not on tv yet here, and I'm staying away from alternative ways of watching.  It's too painful.  Your comments are confirming that that was a good decision.  I'm grateful that there's a forum like this where I can just read about the books.



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Stella Poldark wrote:


I found this episode bore almost no resemblance to the books and it left me feeling very angry. What do others think?


 The same for me. Thankfully I have read till The Angry Tide. The concept I get when watching the series, is that Ross is encouraging Demelza to cheat on him with Hugh Armitage.

For the people who haven't read the books, makes them think Ross is so dumb and Demelza a kind of an 18th century feminist, who on some ways make men fall like flies for her. 

 

I don't like the concept that they made Elizabeth a kind of an alcoholic or addicted to laudanum.

 

So this is my opinion and a little ranting of the series.



-- Edited by ModernPoldark on Monday 24th of July 2017 06:22:17 PM



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I found this episode bore almost no resemblance to the books and it left me feeling very angry. What do others think?



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