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Post Info TOPIC: Poldark TV Series 3 Episode 5


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Date: Jul 31 7:08 PM, 2017
RE: Poldark TV Series 3 Episode 5
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Now that I know prevaricate has a different meaning in the UK, I agree, it was the right word.



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Date: Jul 31 2:14 AM, 2017
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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Perhaps the American meaning of the word prevaricate differs from the English.

In the UK, prevaricate means 'unable to make up one's mind'.  It does not mean telling lies.

Morwenna did prevaricate because she did not wish to give an answer, especially since the answer she had in mind would nor please George.  In the books of course, she had no choice.  She was mere pawn in his quest for power.


Yes, in the books there was no question of George waiting for Morwenna to give an answer. In his mind, the decision was made, but Morwenna was just being difficult by protesting and using delaying tactics like wanting to get her mother's opinion. In some ways she was more "procrastinating" because there was no decision to be made, she was just trying to slow the juggernaut that was propelling her forward.



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Prevaricate in Aus tends to have the same meaning as the UK - mucking around and refusing to give a definite answer. Procrastinate is slightly different in that it means to delay putting into action, the decision that is already made.

As an example, if you had a uni assignment to do, you might prevaricate over which topic you were going to choose, but having chosen the topic you might procrastinate over getting the assignment written.

If I had been writing the script for George I would have selected prevaricate as the precise word I would want.



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Date: Jul 30 11:54 PM, 2017
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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Perhaps the American meaning of the word prevaricate differs from the English.

In the UK, prevaricate means 'unable to make up one's mind'.  It does not mean telling lies.

Morwenna did prevaricate because she did not wish to give an answer, especially since the answer she had in mind would nor please George.  In the books of course, she had no choice.  She was mere pawn in his quest for power.


Clearly it does have a different meaning. Does procrastinate have a different meaning there as well? 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Monday 31st of July 2017 12:03:02 AM

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Perhaps the American meaning of the word prevaricate differs from the English.

In the UK, prevaricate means 'unable to make up one's mind'.  It does not mean telling lies.

Morwenna did prevaricate because she did not wish to give an answer, especially since the answer she had in mind would nor please George.  In the books of course, she had no choice.  She was mere pawn in his quest for power.



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Date: Jul 30 8:35 PM, 2017
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I meant to bring this up this weeks ago when I first heard it, but other things got in the way.

In the scene in which George and Elizabeth are discussing the forthcoming gathering at Lord Falmouth's estate and the conspicuous absence of an invitation in their mail, punctilious George actually uses the wrong word -- or does he? 

ELIZABETH: If the Godolphins are going, Lady Whitworth will be there. She could procure you an invitation. Could you not speak to Osborne?
GEORGE: I could, if I had positive news for him, but while Morwenna continues to prevaricate, I can hardly beg favors of his mother.

Elizabeth doesn't seem to notice that he has just accused her cousin of lying. Presumably, George meant to say "procrastinate" -- to put off acting on something. Is this supposed to be a Freudian slip to show the girl isn't fooling George for a minute or does the "autocorrect" on Debbie Horsfield's computer need to be disabled. 

 

 



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Date: Jul 17 2:54 PM, 2017
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Fijane wrote:

That episode was such a relief! After the terrible Episode 3, and the nearly-as-bad Episode 4, this one was relatively good. Of course, that may only be in comparision, but I am happier that there is evidence that they can do things almost right sometimes.

There was lots of good in this episode: top of the list is that the nice Demelza is back (is that a precursor to the Seal Cave?). George's insecurity has surfaced, and he is the better for it. The rescue was done quite well, with the changes made appropriate to the constraints of TV. I think they made it clear that it was Henshawe's own decision to go. Drake is fantastic - his heartbreak and tears are so much more believable than Demelza's dry eyed sobbing. Ossie still makes the skin crawl, as he should. Henshawe's "funeral" was beautiful and I loved the voices. Overall, I really enjoyed this episode.

The bad: all the wasted opportunities to use WG's wonderful dialogue and replace it with melodramatic cliches (but at least DH had the grace to keep the scene when they find Dwight correct, although I would have liked to see Ross squat down beside Dwight). In particular, the scene where Caroline comes to Dwight and he is ashamed of his appearance. This is one of the most beautiful scenes in all the books, and covers three pages which leaves not only Caroline and Dwight weeping but also Ross and Verity. The scene in the show, while nice, was a let-down.

All the unnecessary foreshadowing, culminating in Demelza's terrible "consequences" speech at the end. DH leaves nothing for the viewer to be surprised about. Elizabeth (both character and actress) are a bit of a write off now. It is interesting to read reviews (from non-book people) who are surprised to find that Elizabeth is not really nice anymore - that's the downside of having made her too nice to start with. It is so wrong to see her sitting slumped in a chair, a position no lady would adopt in front of her husband.

I wish they hadn't shipped Verity over to Lisbon (another gripe of mine: there is no way she and baby Andrew would hop on a ship and cross the channel while there is war in France. Andrew Snr would be home before they arrived anyway) because it would have been lovely to have her receive the wounded men as in the books. Ruby Bentall has been fantastic, and they should have made more storylines that include her.

The sort of dream sequence was interesting and I am not sure how I feel about it. I like the fact that they were trying to convey Ross's feelings about the raid, and that he might possibly be bringing home two dead men to both of the women he loved, but somehow the way they did it seemed a little strange. And again Demelza was portrayed as angry, whereas she should have been heartbroken.

Aunt Agatha is much too spritely to be 99 (or 97?) and viewers are going to find it hard to accept that a centenarian in those times looked as good as she does.

Overall, a good job this time. It just proves that the closer they stick to the book story, the better quality show they produce. They really must wake up, and use the resource of WG's writing as much as they can because when they do, it works.


 I am interested to read your positive view of this series. I like to experience the Poldark story visually so I am prepared to put up with quite a bit for this. The problem for me is that so much is out of order and the story does not flow. Also a great deal is changed in this series. Events and dialogue in the books are taken out and other things not in the books and quite often not resembling anything that WG wrote are added and I find this confusing and irritating. Captain Henshawe need not have died. Jo Nanfan was not a main character in the books so we could have had another not main character to die. Ross and Demelza do not feel close to each other at all and the reconciliation has not really been shown. I think there are serious flaws in this production but I shall stick with it because I love the visual and I like to compare it to my imagination.



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Monday 17th of July 2017 02:54:49 PM



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Monday 17th of July 2017 02:56:38 PM

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Date: Jul 17 10:33 AM, 2017
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That episode was such a relief! After the terrible Episode 3, and the nearly-as-bad Episode 4, this one was relatively good. Of course, that may only be in comparision, but I am happier that there is evidence that they can do things almost right sometimes.

There was lots of good in this episode: top of the list is that the nice Demelza is back (is that a precursor to the Seal Cave?). George's insecurity has surfaced, and he is the better for it. The rescue was done quite well, with the changes made appropriate to the constraints of TV. I think they made it clear that it was Henshawe's own decision to go. Drake is fantastic - his heartbreak and tears are so much more believable than Demelza's dry eyed sobbing. Ossie still makes the skin crawl, as he should. Henshawe's "funeral" was beautiful and I loved the voices. Overall, I really enjoyed this episode.

The bad: all the wasted opportunities to use WG's wonderful dialogue and replace it with melodramatic cliches (but at least DH had the grace to keep the scene when they find Dwight correct, although I would have liked to see Ross squat down beside Dwight). In particular, the scene where Caroline comes to Dwight and he is ashamed of his appearance. This is one of the most beautiful scenes in all the books, and covers three pages which leaves not only Caroline and Dwight weeping but also Ross and Verity. The scene in the show, while nice, was a let-down.

All the unnecessary foreshadowing, culminating in Demelza's terrible "consequences" speech at the end. DH leaves nothing for the viewer to be surprised about. Elizabeth (both character and actress) are a bit of a write off now. It is interesting to read reviews (from non-book people) who are surprised to find that Elizabeth is not really nice anymore - that's the downside of having made her too nice to start with. It is so wrong to see her sitting slumped in a chair, a position no lady would adopt in front of her husband.

I wish they hadn't shipped Verity over to Lisbon (another gripe of mine: there is no way she and baby Andrew would hop on a ship and cross the channel while there is war in France. Andrew Snr would be home before they arrived anyway) because it would have been lovely to have her receive the wounded men as in the books. Ruby Bentall has been fantastic, and they should have made more storylines that include her.

The sort of dream sequence was interesting and I am not sure how I feel about it. I like the fact that they were trying to convey Ross's feelings about the raid, and that he might possibly be bringing home two dead men to both of the women he loved, but somehow the way they did it seemed a little strange. And again Demelza was portrayed as angry, whereas she should have been heartbroken.

Aunt Agatha is much too spritely to be 99 (or 97?) and viewers are going to find it hard to accept that a centenarian in those times looked as good as she does.

Overall, a good job this time. It just proves that the closer they stick to the book story, the better quality show they produce. They really must wake up, and use the resource of WG's writing as much as they can because when they do, it works.



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Date: Jul 13 7:53 AM, 2017
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Stella Poldark wrote:
Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Stella, where did you get the idea that Agatha consulted Tarot cards in the books?  As far as I recall there is not one mention of that.  She was always seeing 'omens', but these were part of her old-fashioned mind, not playing with cards.

She is not that convincing to me.  For a woman who is about to be 100, she is nowhere near deaf or 'old' enough.  However, on TV she is trying to fulfil more roles than just her own.  That is part of the problem, I think.  DH perhaps wasn't forward thinking enough when deciding not to include some characters - Nicholas Warleggan springs to mind.

I didn't see all the episode, but suddenly heard George say 'My child has rickets!'  It all seemed a bit disjointed.  In fact this series has been a succession of vignettes, with no flow or cohesion. 

I cannot understand why all the landings have to be on Hendrawna Beach or Nampara Cove, both locations being having dangerous access. Charlestown could have stood in for Falmouth, as it did previously.   The One and All, indeed any sizeable ship, would have to use a proper port.  And how did that somewhat rickety boat get from a river in 'France' (actually on the river Fal) and end up on Hendrawna?  It made it seem as though they had rowed the Channel, had it not been for the tall ship pasted onto the horizon.  Dwight was far too robust for one who has endured a year in a prison camp. I was hoping to see a more convincing storming of the gaol. 

However, it is so well written  by WG there was no hope for a good reproduction on screen.  I know it couldn't have been reproduced exactly, but when reading it I always feel that once in that kitchen, with no visible means of escape, would make a really excellent scene for TV. The section after that would also have translated well to TV.

 

Mrs G - I do sometimes get confused between the television series and the books, especially just now as I have a lot going on. I agree that many of the characters have to perform more than one role and that Nicholas Warleggan should have been included. He was at times a calming influence as, unlike Cary and George, he did have a few principles. George now is way over the top I think and barely credible. Now we have lost Henshawe and I'm not sure how that will affect the rest of this series.

However, I thought the rescue was quite well done. It isn't a problem for me where they land although I agree Charlestown would have been better. I wonder if the change in ownership of Charlestown has something to do with this. I hear it is now a 'pay to get in' site with free access to one of the boats included. Perhaps the new owner is the reason they are using other sites.

You are right about it being a series of vignettes, with no flow or cohesion and some of the actors are not as good as they were. Overall, I am disappointed with this series but, as you say, we have the books. DH has gone too far away from the books and, at times, it is very amateurish.

 


 


 I agree about Nicholas Warleggan. In the earlier seasons, George played the moderating influence on Cary, but it never made sense. George was so much younger than his uncle yet seemed to be the senior partner. 

I'm wondering what happened to Joan Chynoweth. Once George hired her a nurse, it was as if she disappeared, and she has not been mentioned since.

i suspect the heavy reliance on Hendrawna Beach is dictated by budget and logistics.

i'm really curious to see where the rickets thread is going to go. George is already noticing how much Elizabeth is drinking and how often she adds a few drops from that little bottle (Is that laudanum?) to her glass. I have a feeling poor Dwight's first patient is going to be Valentine. I just hope Choake doesn't try some of the horrible treatments the first two doctors did in the book.



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Date: Jul 12 11:40 AM, 2017
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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Stella, where did you get the idea that Agatha consulted Tarot cards in the books?  As far as I recall there is not one mention of that.  She was always seeing 'omens', but these were part of her old-fashioned mind, not playing with cards.

She is not that convincing to me.  For a woman who is about to be 100, she is nowhere near deaf or 'old' enough.  However, on TV she is trying to fulfil more roles than just her own.  That is part of the problem, I think.  DH perhaps wasn't forward thinking enough when deciding not to include some characters - Nicholas Warleggan springs to mind.

I didn't see all the episode, but suddenly heard George say 'My child has rickets!'  It all seemed a bit disjointed.  In fact this series has been a succession of vignettes, with no flow or cohesion. 

I cannot understand why all the landings have to be on Hendrawna Beach or Nampara Cove, both locations being having dangerous access. Charlestown could have stood in for Falmouth, as it did previously.   The One and All, indeed any sizeable ship, would have to use a proper port.  And how did that somewhat rickety boat get from a river in 'France' (actually on the river Fal) and end up on Hendrawna?  It made it seem as though they had rowed the Channel, had it not been for the tall ship pasted onto the horizon.  Dwight was far too robust for one who has endured a year in a prison camp. I was hoping to see a more convincing storming of the gaol. 

However, it is so well written  by WG there was no hope for a good reproduction on screen.  I know it couldn't have been reproduced exactly, but when reading it I always feel that once in that kitchen, with no visible means of escape, would make a really excellent scene for TV. The section after that would also have translated well to TV.

 

Mrs G - I do sometimes get confused between the television series and the books, especially just now as I have a lot going on. I agree that many of the characters have to perform more than one role and that Nicholas Warleggan should have been included. He was at times a calming influence as, unlike Cary and George, he did have a few principles. George now is way over the top I think and barely credible. Now we have lost Henshawe and I'm not sure how that will affect the rest of this series.

However, I thought the rescue was quite well done. It isn't a problem for me where they land although I agree Charlestown would have been better. I wonder if the change in ownership of Charlestown has something to do with this. I hear it is now a 'pay to get in' site with free access to one of the boats included. Perhaps the new owner is the reason they are using other sites.

You are right about it being a series of vignettes, with no flow or cohesion and some of the actors are not as good as they were. Overall, I am disappointed with this series but, as you say, we have the books. DH has gone too far away from the books and, at times, it is very amateurish.

 


 



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Stella, where did you get the idea that Agatha consulted Tarot cards in the books?  As far as I recall there is not one mention of that.  She was always seeing 'omens', but these were part of her old-fashioned mind, not playing with cards.

She is not that convincing to me.  For a woman who is about to be 100, she is nowhere near deaf or 'old' enough.  However, on TV she is trying to fulfil more roles than just her own.  That is part of the problem, I think.  DH perhaps wasn't forward thinking enough when deciding not to include some characters - Nicholas Warleggan springs to mind.

I didn't see all the episode, but suddenly heard George say 'My child has rickets!'  It all seemed a bit disjointed.  In fact this series has been a succession of vignettes, with no flow or cohesion. 

I cannot understand why all the landings have to be on Hendrawna Beach or Nampara Cove, both locations  having dangerous access. Charlestown could have stood in for Falmouth, as it did previously.   The One and All, indeed any sizeable ship, would have to use a proper port.  And how did that somewhat rickety boat get from a river in 'France' (actually on the river Fal) and end up on Hendrawna?  It made it seem as though they had rowed the Channel, had it not been for the tall ship pasted onto the horizon.  Dwight was far too robust for one who has endured a year in a prison camp. I was hoping to see a more convincing storming of the gaol. 

However, it is so well written  by WG there was no hope for a good reproduction on screen.  I know it couldn't have been reproduced exactly, but when reading it I always feel that once in that kitchen, with no visible means of escape, would make a really excellent scene for TV. The section after that would also have translated well to TV.

 



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Tuesday 25th of July 2017 10:01:53 PM

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ModernPoldark wrote:

Actually I'm not blaming the actors, I indeed think Aidan, Eleanor, Luke, Jack, Sean, the Carne brothers and Morwenna do a good job. I could just be a bit to loyal to the books. It's just sad that the BBC don't have so much funds to put some extra details in the series.

 

About Aunt Agatha, I never read in the books that she reads tarot cards. I know she believed in bad omens and superstitious things, but putting in stuff that didn't happened in the books aren't so nice for me.

 

This is just my opinion of all. I'm not angry,  I just feel there needs something more.


 You are probably right about Aunt Agatha and the Tarot Cards; I cannot remember them specifically but they are a way of conveying the sort of character she is. In fact I would say that, of all the characters, Aunt Agatha is kept most closely to the books after Ross.



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Actually I'm not blaming the actors, I indeed think Aidan, Eleanor, Luke, Jack, Sean, the Carne brothers and Morwenna do a good job. I could just be a bit to loyal to the books. It's just sad that the BBC don't have so much funds to put some extra details in the series.

 

About Aunt Agatha, I never read in the books that she reads tarot cards. I know she believed in bad omens and superstitious things, but putting in stuff that didn't happened in the books aren't so nice for me.

 

This is just my opinion of all. I'm not angry,  I just feel there needs something more.



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I think Stella sums up episode 5 quite nicely, Captain Henshaw being killed off was a real shame, DH may have decided to kill off Henshaw as opposed to Joe Nanfan for a bigger impact as Henshaw's character was weaved into many scenes during series 1 and 2 and was a popular character.

As to the rest of the episode well I feel I am in the minority here but I really enjoyed it, I thought Aidan was brilliant, the scenery as usual was exceptional and Drake and Morwenna were lovely really feeling them as characters and the reconciliation between Caroline and Dwight was beautiful although it could have been longer.

I am still apprehensive about how the Demelza / Hugh Storyline is going to progress but as Stella says without the "gratitude element"  the relationship and feelings between Ross and Hugh could change quite significantly.

So for me I am enjoying the season so far and looking forward to the rest.



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ModernPoldark wrote:

Why did DH murder Captain Henshawe??? I'm reading The Angry Tide and Captain Henshawe is still very alive in that book!

Ross did not land on Hendrowna beach, he sailed to Falmouth and let Dwight and Drake stay with Verity!

And time and again Aunt Agatha with her pathetic tarot cards! This whole series is a piece of crap, that people wants to make you believe is gold worth!

 

Pathetic!


 I hate that Debbie Horsfield did this because Captain Henshawe deserved the bright future Winston Graham gave him and his family when he wrote him out of the story, not to be left behind dying in a French forest, leaving a wife and children. (Graham left someone behind too, but he chose Joe Nanfan, a bachelor miner who had cheated death in the mine collapse at Wheal Grace. He left an extended family but no wife and young children.) That said, she did give him a heroic end and a funeral worthy of the tears I shed watching it.

Actually, I think DH came up with a very cost-effective Plan B for getting the band from Cornwall to and from France. (Indeed, I suspect Ross would have wished to have Mr. Trencrom and the One And All to fall back on.) There was no way she could have stayed faithful to WG's narrative because the production costs would have been prohibitive. The only downside is she had to surrender the reciprocal gratitude that would give Hugh Armitage that first toehold in the books. By having the rescuers brought home on the One And All instead of having them steal a fishing boat and set off from France without a navigator -- boy were they lucky Lt. Armitage was in the Royal Navy rather than the army -- she freed both Poldarks of their gratitude to Armitage. Without that, will they still have to be as accepting of the Boscawens' attention or will they seem guilty of the inevitable charges of "social climbing" that will come from George? 



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ModernPoldark wrote:

Why did DH murder Captain Henshawe??? I'm reading The Angry Tide and Captain Henshawe is still very alive in that book!

Ross did not land on Hendrowna beach, he sailed to Falmouth and let Dwight and Drake stay with Verity!

And time and again Aunt Agatha with her pathetic tarot cards! This whole series is a piece of crap, that people wants to make you believe is gold worth!

 

Pathetic!


 With so many characters and threads it would be impossible to include everything that happens and every character especially when the production is being created by the BBC. The BBC is the poor relation of all the T.V. channels, being starved of funding by a government that doesn't like the public sector.

I imagine we all wonder why Henshawe was killed off. I read that, like Judd, his part would be much smaller in future episodes. The actor playing Henshawe was approached about this and he agreed that he should be killed off. The BBC cannot afford to pay for all the characters that are in the books.

Aunt Agatha and her Tarot cards are straight from the books. I cannot agree with you, Modern Poldark, that this whole series is a piece of crap. There is some very good acting from Aidan Turner, Luke Norris, Kyle Soller, Jack Farthing, Eleanor Tomlinson and many others. Also the locations that are chosen add such a great deal to the productions and require a lot of work to get the necessary equipment down very narrow lanes etc.

Some people prefer the books, especially on the Society forums. I like both but am glad of the books because they will always be better than any production, but I can also enjoy the visual aspect of the television series.



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Why did DH murder Captain Henshawe??? I'm reading The Angry Tide and Captain Henshawe is still very alive in that book!

Ross did not land on Hendrowna beach, he sailed to Falmouth and let Dwight and Drake stay with Verity!

And time and again Aunt Agatha with her pathetic tarot cards! This whole series is a piece of crap, that people wants to make you believe is gold worth!

 

Pathetic!



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Date: Jul 10 12:35 PM, 2017
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Fijane wrote:

Are you all still out there watching?

What was the best and worst of Episode 5?


 I need to watch it again but what springs to mind is this. Scenes between Drake and Morwenna were very well acted and the background of the woods for one scene was well chosen I thought. Also, the scenes between Drake and Demelza after Morwenna had told Drake were well done. However I must pick up on something Mrs G said about another episode. It concerns Demelza's acting which I think has deteriorated and not only because of what she has been given. There seems to be a problem with her acting in this series. To me it feels that she is not quite 'in the part'.

I thought the escape scenes were good and at last George appears to be being snubbed by the gentry. As to Elizabeth - well I gave up on her long ago. She cannot act but what on earth has DH done to her.

In this episode there were more than the usual number of words directly from the book.



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Are you all still out there watching?

What was the best and worst of Episode 5?



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