Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Poldark TV series 3 Episode 4


Undergraduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 404
Date: Jul 13 8:34 AM, 2017
RE: Poldark TV series 3 Episode 4
Permalink  
 


Fijane wrote:

There's a slight disconnect in our comments because Episode 5 hasn't been shown here yet (and I prefer to wait for the regular Sunday night ritual biggrin) so I didn't realise that DH had changed who went on the mission. Why would Drake go if he wasn't in that devastated frame of mind? And she has made Zacky more young and able than he was. I don't want to think about Henshawe dying - the only reason the event is tolerable in the books is because the reader is not overly attached to Joe Nanfan.

That excerpt is very telling. I hadn't really absorbed that Ross's actions to save Drake really tied Demelza's hands in terms of being able to complain about the mission. I still don't think she would have been actually whinging to him about going (because she knew of the necessity for the trip) but just intensely worried about it. Like the quote says, I think she was resigned to Ross's essential nature and didn't waste her breath trying to change his mind.

Save



-- Edited by Fijane on Thursday 13th of July 2017 07:30:44 AM


 Fijane, 

I'm sorry. I forgot you don't live in the UK. (I don't either, but we won't be getting "Poldark" until September so I have resorted to watching it via TVCatchup.com, which offers live broadcasts of a bunch of British channels. My Sunday at 9 p.m. ritual is now my Sunday at 1 p.m. ritual.) I don't want to spoil it for you because the broadcast is only a few days away. Let's just say it doesn't take as much to break Drake's heart in the series as it does in the book and Ross didn't know his crew of seven was going to grow to eight when he left home.

 

 



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 190
Date: Jul 13 7:29 AM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Dark Mare wrote:

Yes, she was different in the book, but Ross was setting off with a significantly different and less essential (to Wheal Grace) crew:

Book: Ross, Drake and Tholly plus John Bone, Dwight's manservant; Jacka Hoblyn, Rosina's father; Joe Nanfan and Tom Ellery, the two miners who nearly died in the collapse at Wheal Grace but then made a full recovery; and Wilf Jonas, the miller's son. 

Episode 5: 
Ross, Drake and Tholly plus Will Henshawe, Zacky Martin, Jacka Hoblyn and the two guys who stayed with the boat. (Were they ever identified?)
 
He was leaving her behind to run the mine without Henshawe and Zacky. We don't hear her specifically complain about that, but I don't think I'm the only viewer who felt her eyebrows rise when she saw who was accompanying him. (I so wished Debbie Horsfield had let her point this out and ask who was supposed to help her run the mine in Zacky and Henshawe's absence, her brother Sam? Oh and inform him that if they all get captured, she will be selling the mine to George Warleggan so she can finance a rescue mission to save the rescuers. Now that would be feisty.)
 
And there is something else to consider. The series shuffled the chronology so the days of the toads have not yet occurred and neither has the kerfuffle over Geoffrey Charles' bible. Ross hasn't gone to bat with George to save Drake's neck yet so Demelza doesn't owe him big time as she does in the book:
 
 
Page 427, "The Black Moon" 

It had been a curious leave-taking. That from Demelza had been muted - not in any way ungenuine, but set about with so many cross-currents that the main stream of her anxiety was not as clear as it had been last October. For one thing, she was not with child and was able to hide her fears better. For another, his saving of Drake from a prison sentence had created a sort of quid pro quo in her emotions. Although he had never told her what he had done or said on his visit to George, she knew he could only have achieved his ends by means of a threat, or bargain, which must have entailed some kind of risk to them all. So it seemed that his having courted one danger on her behalf left him freer to engage in another. Or it left her less able to protest. There was a sense of fatalism in her mind too, in that she perceived more clearly than he thought that she had married a man for whom an occasional adventure came as second nature. She liked the idea of it no more for that but saw it as something unavoidable. 

... Little had been said against Drake accompanying him, for the alternative seemed to be to allow him to cut adrift from all his friends. But again Demelza felt that, having preserved him from one hazard, they were now putting him in the way of another.


 

 


There's a slight disconnect in our comments because Episode 5 hasn't been shown here yet (and I prefer to wait for the regular Sunday night ritual biggrin) so I didn't realise that DH had changed who went on the mission. Why would Drake go if he wasn't in that devastated frame of mind? And she has made Zacky more young and able than he was. I don't want to think about Henshawe dying - the only reason the event is tolerable in the books is because the reader is not overly attached to Joe Nanfan.

That excerpt is very telling. I hadn't really absorbed that Ross's actions to save Drake really tied Demelza's hands in terms of being able to complain about the mission. I still don't think she would have been actually whinging to him about going (because she knew of the necessity for the trip) but just intensely worried about it. Like the quote says, I think she was resigned to Ross's essential nature and didn't waste her breath trying to change his mind.

Save



-- Edited by Fijane on Thursday 13th of July 2017 07:30:44 AM

__________________


Undergraduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 404
Date: Jul 13 7:09 AM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Fijane wrote:

Thanks for the reminder about the corn shipment. I did have a vague memory but it seemed so apart from Nampara that I had forgotten. It was greatly embellished on screen though. ...

... About Demelza, I don't have a problem with her becoming more responsible and having to make decisions. But I do think that making her so angry about the French trips was out of character. Book Demelza accepted that Ross needed to do whatever he could for Dwight. After all, she loved Dwight just as much as Ross did. She still worried (a lot) but she didn't blame Ross or take it out on him. And underlying this, screen Demelza keeps talking to Ross as if he is a little naughty boy who has to be disciplined. I really dislike that. There is no equality in their marriage anymore.


You're welcome.

Yes, she was different in the book, but Ross was setting off with a significantly different and less essential (to Wheal Grace) crew:

Book: Ross, Drake and Tholly plus John Bone, Dwight's manservant; Jacka Hoblyn, Rosina's father; Joe Nanfan and Tom Ellery, the two miners who nearly died in the collapse at Wheal Grace but then made a full recovery; and Wilf Jonas, the miller's son. 

Episode 5: 
Ross, Drake and Tholly plus Will Henshawe, Zacky Martin, Jacka Hoblyn and the two guys who stayed with the boat. (Were they ever identified?)
 
He was leaving her behind to run the mine without Henshawe and Zacky. We don't hear her specifically complain about that, but I don't think I'm the only viewer who felt her eyebrows rise when she saw who was accompanying him. (I so wished Debbie Horsfield had let her point this out and ask who was supposed to help her run the mine in Zacky and Henshawe's absence, her brother Sam? Oh and inform him that if they all get captured, she will be selling the mine to George Warleggan so she can finance a rescue mission to save the rescuers. Now that would be feisty.)
 
And there is something else to consider. The series shuffled the chronology so the days of the toads have not yet occurred and neither has the kerfuffle over Geoffrey Charles' bible. Ross hasn't gone to bat with George to save Drake's neck yet so Demelza doesn't owe him big time as she does in the book:
 
 
Page 427, "The Black Moon" 

It had been a curious leave-taking. That from Demelza had been muted - not in any way ungenuine, but set about with so many cross-currents that the main stream of her anxiety was not as clear as it had been last October. For one thing, she was not with child and was able to hide her fears better. For another, his saving of Drake from a prison sentence had created a sort of quid pro quo in her emotions. Although he had never told her what he had done or said on his visit to George, she knew he could only have achieved his ends by means of a threat, or bargain, which must have entailed some kind of risk to them all. So it seemed that his having courted one danger on her behalf left him freer to engage in another. Or it left her less able to protest. There was a sense of fatalism in her mind too, in that she perceived more clearly than he thought that she had married a man for whom an occasional adventure came as second nature. She liked the idea of it no more for that but saw it as something unavoidable. 

... Little had been said against Drake accompanying him, for the alternative seemed to be to allow him to cut adrift from all his friends. But again Demelza felt that, having preserved him from one hazard, they were now putting him in the way of another.


 

 



__________________


Newbie

Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Date: Jul 11 3:22 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

 When discussing episode 3 and commenting on Demelza's bossy and miserable temperament, Hollyhock asked the question - Is this DH's way of rationalising a certain future event? Yes I think it is! 

 It is possible that DH and/or the director has given this surly demeanour to Demelza early on so that viewers can make some sense of her actions in the second half of the series? I am suggesting that they are trying to prepare the ground so that her future exploits are not just met with disbelief by the audience.

 In interviews/magazine articles Eleanor has said that 'Ross neglects Demelza,' but I don't get a sense of that when reading either The Black Moon or the Four Swans. The only real neglect (in The Four Swans) is his strangely uncharacteristic reticence to intervene in his own wife's personal affairs, which has devastating consequences. Demelza has plenty of things to occupy her time and thinking and should be focusing more on her own family. Not the least she has young baby to admire and fuss over which you would think would provide her with a main focus of attention.

 

 



-- Edited by Moorland Rambler on Saturday 15th of July 2017 04:48:20 PM

__________________


Newbie

Status: Offline
Posts: 18
Date: Jul 11 2:18 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

I think DH has changed Demelza to relate to modern women but in my opinion this is back fired as she comes across as "Angry" about almost everything.  On watching episode one my husband said "She's not going to punch him again is she?" just get over it !!!! 

if this continues after her liaison with Hugh I don't think she will be a very popular character at all.



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 190
Date: Jul 11 6:19 AM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Thanks for the reminder about the corn shipment. I did have a vague memory but it seemed so apart from Nampara that I had forgotten. It was greatly embellished on screen though.

The money negotiations were good (but not great) on screen, but in my opinion missed the feeling that was built in the book. Ossie does a lot more talking about his living and his expenses, and George gets much more irate. There are also letters written, and George deliberately tries to keep Ossie stewing. Also, the sexual undertones are missing. I would have liked to see Ossie becoming more frustrated about this during the negotiations. I admit it is difficult to portray the fantasies that he was having about Morwenna.

About Demelza, I don't have a problem with her becoming more responsible and having to make decisions. But I do think that making her so angry about the French trips was out of character. Book Demelza accepted that Ross needed to do whatever he could for Dwight. After all, she loved Dwight just as much as Ross did. She still worried (a lot) but she didn't blame Ross or take it out on him. And underlying this, screen Demelza keeps talking to Ross as if he is a little naughty boy who has to be disciplined. I really dislike that. There is no equality in their marriage anymore.



__________________


Undergraduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 404
Date: Jul 11 1:57 AM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Fijane wrote:

... But most of the scenes just between our characters are still mostly good. I have to say that the new Ossie is excellent.In the books there is always the discordance between what we know about his character and the fact that he is described as handsome and charming in company. I think this actor is managing to get the balance right. The script, unfortunately, lost all the tension of the money negotiations, especially Ossie's rabid ambition to accumulate more livings. Maybe that will come later. And where is Morwenna's quite strong refusal to marry him, her pleading that she will appeal to her mother etc. Maybe that also is to come...

... And finally, to the perennial bugbear of Demelza's damaged personality. Not quite so much snarkiness this episode but still the underlying attitude that she is the boss and that Ross must bow to her wishes. I'm starting to wish he hadn't married her. The scenes where they are loving to each other feel fake now.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 I have to disagree. I loved the negotiations between George and Ossie, especially the way they were cut into and out of Caroline and Demelza's outings as footpads for the poor. I thought Jack Farthing was great in those scenes. I don't remember getting a sense for Ossie's capacity for evil until after the wedding. 

As for Demelza's change in attitude, I think it is realistic. Ross' adventures are bigger and more dangerous now, and he is leaving her responsible for a lot more than just Nampara. Think about this: He took the whole top management structure for Wheal Grace to France with him to break Dwight out of prison after a scouting mission that had him doubting whether he'd survive that trip. If the second trip went worse than it did, Demelza could have been left to run Wheal Grace without either Mr. Henshawe or Zacky Martin -- something even Ross had never done. 



__________________


Undergraduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 404
Date: Jul 10 3:12 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Fijane wrote:

... The whole made up storyline of buying the ship contents was OK. It was relatively in character, although I couldn't get my head around the logistics of what they seemed to be doing. How did they unload a whole grain shipment on Hendrawna beach?

 

Are you saying that the whole purchase of the corn shipment to resell to the poor was made up or just the way the shipment was delivered and distributed? The corn subscription and distribution was definitely in "The Black Moon," pages 264-5 and 267  -- although the donation levels were more than twice what they were in the book. The whole shipment went to St. Ann's and the distribution was handled at that village's church. There was no separate landing of a portion of the corn on Hendrawna Beach and no distribution at the Methodists' meeting house. And the closure of Wheal Leisure had nothing to do with the corn shipment, of course.



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 190
Date: Jul 10 7:28 AM, 2017
Permalink  
 

This ep wasn't quite as bad as Episode three. There are some clues that DH might have actually read The Black Moon/Four Swans - she has included some semblance of Ross's visit to Agatha, even managing to put it on Clowance's christening day. A pity that old slatternly Lucy Pipe didn't make the casting list - the young maid was quite unconvincing. Missed opportunity there.

I think the editing team need to be replaced. All the chopping and changing of tiny scenes looks like they don't know how to construct a scene from start to finish. I find this a very jarring change from the first two series.

And what I call the "general crowd" scenes, like the miners gathering to receive the bread, warming their hands - these are just amateur theatre. They are so poorly done that it feels like scenes from Horrible Histories (one of our favourite shows, BTW) - that is, they are meant to be overly melodramatic.

But most of the scenes just between our characters are still mostly good. I have to say that the new Ossie is excellent.In the books there is always the discordance between what we know about his character and the fact that he is described as handsome and charming in company. I think this actor is managing to get the balance right. The script, unfortunately, lost all the tension of the money negotiations, especially Ossie's rabid ambition to accumulate more livings. Maybe that will come later. And where is Morwenna's quite strong refusal to marry him, her pleading that she will appeal to her mother etc. Maybe that also is to come.

The whole made up storyline of buying the ship contents was OK. It was relatively in character, although I couldn't get my head around the logistics of what they seemed to be doing. How did they unload a whole grain shipment on Hendrawna beach?

I would like to see the background of the planning of the French landing built up more. From the promos I suspect that DH has cut that out completely. It is a pity because I think the tension of Ross going with the expedition, and then waiting while it all goes wrong, is essential to the atmosphere of his ultimate decision to go to Quimper to do the rescue.

And finally, to the perennial bugbear of Demelza's damaged personality. Not quite so much snarkiness this episode but still the underlying attitude that she is the boss and that Ross must bow to her wishes. I'm starting to wish he hadn't married her. The scenes where they are loving to each other feel fake now.

I have seen several comments over the last couple of weeks about the decline in ratings in Australia. Although, non-book readers seem to be still hooked, and they are surprised by the ratings. They have no idea how much of the best parts of the story are being butchered. Hopefully they will go to the books after seeing the show.



__________________


Undergraduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 404
Date: Jul 9 2:30 AM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Mrs Gimlett wrote:

... I have also wondered why, in an age when only a low percentage of folk could read, he finds it necessary to put up written notices warning them off his land.  Would a person be trespassing if they were unable to read the sign which told them that? ... 


 What's that old saying, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."? 



__________________


Fan

Status: Offline
Posts: 26
Date: Jul 6 1:25 AM, 2017
Permalink  
 

I agree 100% with all comments made.

__________________

 

 



Honorary Life Member. Forum Moderator

Status: Offline
Posts: 766
Date: Jul 5 9:38 AM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Fijane, I think you are right.  The producers/writers etc. are still basking in the glory of their first few episodes.  Unfortunately, they seem to think they now have a free rein because a following has been built up.  However, I think punters very quickly turn off these days - there is so much competition - and in my opinion, if they continue in this vein, audience figures will plummet.

Regardless of whether fans of the series have read the books, most can differentiate between excellent and mediocre and I am very much saddened that it is/has become the latter.

I do not know if any comments from this site are looked at.  It would be interesting to know; at the very beginning when a re-make was announced, those who mattered were keen to get opinions and take advice on board.  Now I suspect this has been jettisoned.  I am not sure if Andrew Graham is even involved with the current series as advisor.

In general, I watch very little TV, but the buzz created by a new series of say, Sherlock or Dr Who, and the interest taken in them by all forms of media are far greater than Poldark seems to get.  Perhaps that alone should inform Mammoth Screen that they are not sitting on a certain success, if they continue on their current path.

I wonder if the first series, which got huge publicity to begin with, is only memorable for many because of Aiden Turner's scything scene!



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 190
Date: Jul 5 2:40 AM, 2017
Permalink  
 

What concerns me is that they are racing ahead so fast with the new series, that they don't have time to take in the "free market research" that is available on the net. I want them to slow down, take all the feedback on board and adjust back.

I can't cope with the fact that they are still patting themselves on the back because the first series was good, and then presuming all is progressing equally well on the basis of a season that aired two years ago.

In a nutshell "Please listen to the fans! We are telling you the truth about what you are doing!"

__________________


Honorary Life Member. Forum Moderator

Status: Offline
Posts: 766
Date: Jul 4 10:02 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

I do find this series getting tedious,  even if you watch just it as a costume drama and forget about the books.

The scenes are for ever switching without anything actually happening.  George has become much more of a hate figure than ever he did in the books  It is true we are not meant to like him in either version, but in the books he does have a few redeeming features.  He attempts to curry favour with GC for instance, rather than just wanting to be rid of him.  Neither is he quite so high and mighty.  This is supposed to be a man who is not quite comfortable in the company of the upper classes.  He was very careful to watch and try to fit in, whilst all the time imagining people thought him not quite up to snuff.  Not so TV George.  He is lording it over everyone, except the one person who he would like to see put down. 

I have also wondered why, in an age when only a low percentage of folk could read, he finds it necessary to put up written notices warning them off his land.  Would a person be trespassing if they were unable to read the sign which told them that?

Demelza gets worse by the week.  Not the actress - she has to do what is required of her, but the character is becoming quite unlikeable.  When Clowance is born, obviously a straightforward birth, but surely Ross would have enquired after her, rather than just pick the child up.  He was always very anxious about Demelza giving birth.

I don't think I can go on any longer,  watching this deteriorate into a second rate series.  DH is taking too many liberties, not least her making the females 'modern' women.  It just doesn't work for me, and possibly not for many other viewers. Elizabeth is on the way to becoming hooked on something, so how she can tell Morwenna her marriage is a success is laughable.

Sorry to be so negative, but I would be interested in hearing what others think.

Mrs G



__________________


Honorary Life Member. Forum Moderator

Status: Offline
Posts: 766
Date: Jul 3 9:13 PM, 2017
Permalink  
 

Comments anyone?



__________________
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.