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Post Info TOPIC: Poldark TV Series 3 Episode 3


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Date: Jul 19 12:05 AM, 2017
RE: Poldark TV Series 3 Episode 3
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Stella Poldark wrote:
Dark Mare wrote:

Fijane -- I've messaged you privately.


 Dark Mare - My understanding about Spoilers is that it's OK to post them provided you put a spoiler alert in large, bold type at the top, Your topic sounds interesting to us all.


 I seem to have opened a can of worms here regarding something that happens in "The Angry Tide." I did not expect a vague reference to pique curiosity so I was surprised when Fijane asked about it. I thought it better that I answer her privately and so I did, but I used this thread to alert her. Now I see that Fijane is not the only one whose curiosity was piqued so I have posted my message to Fijane on a new thread for "The Angry Tide"  along with a recap of the discussion that led up to it.

(Fijane, I leave it to you to post what you replied to my message if you wish to. I hope you do.) 

 


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Date: Jul 11 9:00 AM, 2017
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Dark Mare wrote:

Fijane -- I've messaged you privately.


 Dark Mare - My understanding about Spoilers is that it's OK to post them provided you put a spoiler alert in large, bold type at the top, Your topic sounds interesting to us all.



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Date: Jul 11 1:08 AM, 2017
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Fijane -- I've messaged you privately.



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Date: Jul 10 7:32 AM, 2017
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Dark Mare wrote:
Fijane wrote:

I've not seen the episode yet, but I find your comment that the "bank" incident was out of character for Demelza to be odd. I have never seen it that way. She often had to make decisions on Ross's behalf when he wasn't there - the villagers petitioned her all the time. But only a few of these were intrinsic to the plot and therefore told in more detail. The "bank" was extremely important to Demelza, and she acted according to the instincts of her heart. I see it as quite similar to her actions in bringing Verity and Andrew together.

In the first two episodes, I do feel that they have mangled the relationship between the Carnes and R & D. They have made them too familiar with each other - the boys need to be more deferential in general. Drake is not as in awe of Geoffrey Charles as he ought to be.



-- Edited by Fijane on Wednesday 28th of June 2017 02:55:35 AM


 Fijane -- I'd like to explain why I found the bank incident to be out of character, but I don't think I can do so without being a spoiler. It isn't the whole incident, just a certain aspect of it. If you are curious, let me know here, and I'll message you privately.


 Can we start a new thread in the Experts section, or even in the relevant Book discussion? I would like to hear your view.



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Date: Jul 9 2:02 AM, 2017
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Fijane wrote:

I've not seen the episode yet, but I find your comment that the "bank" incident was out of character for Demelza to be odd. I have never seen it that way. She often had to make decisions on Ross's behalf when he wasn't there - the villagers petitioned her all the time. But only a few of these were intrinsic to the plot and therefore told in more detail. The "bank" was extremely important to Demelza, and she acted according to the instincts of her heart. I see it as quite similar to her actions in bringing Verity and Andrew together.

In the first two episodes, I do feel that they have mangled the relationship between the Carnes and R & D. They have made them too familiar with each other - the boys need to be more deferential in general. Drake is not as in awe of Geoffrey Charles as he ought to be.



-- Edited by Fijane on Wednesday 28th of June 2017 02:55:35 AM


 Fijane -- I'd like to explain why I found the bank incident to be out of character, but I don't think I can do so without being a spoiler. It isn't the whole incident, just a certain aspect of it. If you are curious, let me know here, and I'll message you privately.



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Date: Jul 3 9:20 AM, 2017
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Well, I am not going to mince words. That episode was terrible.

Usually, for me, the good outweighs the bad, but there is a definite tilt of the scales here. The few good things: Drake is lovely, Caroline is still good although I miss her comments about the poor being dispensible etc. The methodist's singing was lovely. Umm... the scenery was nice.

The bad: just about everything about the visit to Roscoff, everything George did, ridiculous storyline following Elizabeth and the sedative. The long periods of gazing out to sea, into fires etc. Chopping and changing of the scenes back and forth. Constant dragging people away to be beheaded. "Disguising" Ross with a silly green beanie. Little things like, Demelza never doing anything around the farm or kitchen except kneading a bit of bread. Do they bring out the same piece of dough each time. She had no time to be gazing from cliffs. She was too busy. Prudie hanging around in every conversation - she needs to learn her place. George starting to lose the complexity of his inferiority complex and just becoming evil.

But worst of all, Demelza. None of the actions she took were inherently bad in themselves, but it was all about the attitude. Everything was phrased as snubbing her nose at Ross. She somehow has taken his trip to Roscoff as a personal slight. Where is the love she holds for Dwight, and the acceptance of whatever it takes to rescue him? I had no problem with her giving the shed, but why make it about being boss of her marriage. And the stupid line "what's his is mine" - this is the 1700's, girlfriend, the husband owns everything and the wife nothing!

Then when he returns, the agenda is firstly to put him in his place with a speech that sounded like a quote from the 21st century feminist bible, then she graciously bestows some affection on him (but only after he acknowledges that the power of the relationship has passed to her). He has to earn her love with submission. He should have been non-responsive after her tirade, but instead meekly submitted. It feels like the first steps of emotional domestic abuse. How unattractive this whole plotline is to the viewer.

DH has totally lost the plot - not only WG's plot but the plot of a genuine historical drama.

This episode had better be the lowest they go.



-- Edited by Fijane on Monday 3rd of July 2017 09:22:55 AM



-- Edited by Fijane on Monday 3rd of July 2017 09:26:26 AM

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Date: Jun 28 9:18 PM, 2017
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Hollyhock wrote:

Disappointing.  I've tried (as much as possible) to not carry over my knowledge of WG's characters and events and approach this adaptation as a stand-alone.  Unfortunately, even as stand-alone, this series has grown progressively un-engaging and tedious. The major flaw is that there is no real warmth between R&D; I'm not feeling any chemistry outside the bedroom. The two spend most of their waking hours bickering, or at least nursing resentments.

Eleanor Tomlinson: DH has transformed Demelza from a charming, sweet-natured, determined woman into a harridan. I would not care to spend five minutes in the company of this bossy woman who constantly nurses her grudges and seems so MISERABLE. (Is this DH's way of rationalizing a certain future event?) Like George, Demelza seems to be omnipresent and is a control freak. They'd make a great couple running roughshod over everyone and everything.

Heida Reed: E3's revision is unintentionally comical. Is DH really turning the oh-so-controlled Elizabeth into a disheveled dope fiend/alcoholic?  Really? Why?  

New cast: One of my fears is that my mental images of WG's lovely characters, e.g., Drake and Morweena, will be tainted by these distortions that DH is creating. I also think that DH is doing a disservice to viewers in feeding them scenes that are culturally inaccurate--servants sharing meals with the gentry, etc.     

Positives: Caroline, Dwight, Geoffrey Charles, and Aunt Agatha. Strong performances.

Aidan Turner: Totally carrying S3.  I've taken to reading a mystery novel and only looking up at the screen when the oh-so-delicious Aidan speaks or appears, especially when he bears his chest. nod.gif

Even the cameras adore that man; he is a consummate actor and brings WG's Ross alive.  The only reason I might continue to watch is to see how Aidan interprets and portrays Ross' reactions to the upcoming events threatening his world.   

** 2 stars out of 5 

 ------------------------

Dark Mare--thanks for the YouTube tip. 


 Hollyhock - I love your post mainly because it has put into words what I have been feeling about these screen characters but not wishing to fully admit it to myself. They are not the characters from the Poldark books at all except perhaps for Ross. It isn't the fault of the actors although I'm not very impressed by Heida or Gabriella. DH carries the responsibility for this. Such a pity as I thought series one was very good.



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Date: Jun 28 6:59 PM, 2017
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Disappointing.  I've tried (as much as possible) to not carry over my knowledge of WG's characters and events and approach this adaptation as a stand-alone.  Unfortunately, even as stand-alone, this series has grown progressively un-engaging and tedious. The major flaw is that there is no real warmth between R&D; I'm not feeling any chemistry outside the bedroom. The two spend most of their waking hours bickering, or at least nursing resentments.

Eleanor Tomlinson: DH has transformed Demelza from a charming, sweet-natured, determined woman into a harridan. I would not care to spend five minutes in the company of this bossy woman who constantly nurses her grudges and seems so MISERABLE. (Is this DH's way of rationalizing a certain future event?) Like George, Demelza seems to be omnipresent and is a control freak. They'd make a great couple running roughshod over everyone and everything.

Heida Reed: E3's revision is unintentionally comical. Is DH really turning the oh-so-controlled Elizabeth into a disheveled dope fiend/alcoholic?  Really? Why?  

New cast: One of my fears is that my mental images of WG's lovely characters, e.g., Drake and Morweena, will be tainted by these distortions that DH is creating. I also think that DH is doing a disservice to viewers in feeding them scenes that are culturally inaccurate--servants sharing meals with the gentry, etc.     

Positives: Caroline, Dwight, Geoffrey Charles, and Aunt Agatha. Strong performances.

Aidan Turner: Totally carrying S3.  I've taken to reading a mystery novel and only looking up at the screen when the oh-so-delicious Aidan speaks or appears, especially when he bears his chest. nod.gif

Even the cameras adore that man; he is a consummate actor and brings WG's Ross alive.  The only reason I might continue to watch is to see how Aidan interprets and portrays Ross' reactions to the upcoming events threatening his world.   

** 2 stars out of 5 

 ------------------------

Dark Mare--thanks for the YouTube tip. 



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Date: Jun 28 11:51 AM, 2017
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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

In my opinion, this is going from bad to worse.

I do not enjoy seeing Demelza behaving in a manner completely unlike the books.  Yes, she did occasionally take matters into her own hands, but giving her brothers a barn to convert into a church?  Ross would have gone ballistic if that had happened.  It is one thing to allow them to renovate an old mine building some distance away; this is on their doorstep! 

The new characters being introduced are more caricatures to my mind.  Tholly, yes - he is an old rogue, but Ross in the books makes it perfectly clear to him who is the 'boss' and if he doesn't toe the line woe betide him.  I can see the draw of portraying the Revolution in all its blood and gore, but WG, who as we know was meticulous about historical accuracy, said that the small fishing villages were pretty much left alone to continue trading with the English.  I have read this elsewhere too.  It looked very peculiar to see two men lurking in Roscoff, obviously not natives and only being picked up when Ross refuses the landlady's attentions.  That is actually quite a good scene to have been enacted faithfully too.  I suppose it wasn't dramatic enough, without a fight thrown in.

As far as I can see, they are trying to make Ross a super hero, all action, brooding and galloping everywhere.  The trouble is, he wasn't really like that in very much of the books.  He spent time at home, doing paperwork, up at the mine, always busy, yes, but not constantly punching his way out of trouble.  He is being made into a modern day type action man, probably because that is what audiences have become used to seeing. 

Perhaps Mammoth Screen think it would be boring for the majority if they kept the main characters as they are on the page.  Maybe they don't credit us with any appreciation of subtlety, or perhaps they are scared to try.

Sorry, but I am really disappointed in how this is developing and I have heard many comments from locals who do not watch any more or say it hasn't the draw that even the 1970s series had.

What do others feel?


 Mrs G - After the first episode of series 3 I decided that if I were to continue to watch this production I would have to keep the books out of my mind and enjoy it for what it is. To a large extent I have succeeded in this although I have been drawn back many times to The Black Moon to check my memory. The books are always there for me to pick up any time and there is comfort in that. So that is how I have coped with the change in order of events, the many significant deviations from the story lines and characters and missing characters. I shall probably miss the next episode as I shall be on holiday in Cornwall but there is always iPlayer. I am determined to watch it all the way through. There is some evidence that Mammoth staff keep a watch on comments about the series on Facebook. If anyone wants their views to be made known you can post on any one of the many Poldark groups.



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Date: Jun 28 9:39 AM, 2017
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In the books,  all the decisions Demelza takes when Ross is away are governed by her thinking 'what would he do/want'.  By giving her brothers the barn she was acting in spite, because Ross was away.  She would have known his reaction to it.  By making her like this, the character is becoming too modern. 

If I recall correctly, when Ross went to Roscoff, she was very anxious, but because she was pregnant spent most of her time going about her normal work.  She was just as invested in knowing what was happening to Dwight as Ross and Caroline were.  Yes, she thought he shouldn't have left her in her condition, but once the decision was taken, she was resigned to it and made the best of it too. 

What a pity the scene where Ross returns when she is playing the spinet wasn't included - that could have been a very intimate moment. DH missed a trick there.



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Date: Jun 28 2:55 AM, 2017
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I've not seen the episode yet, but I find your comment that the "bank" incident was out of character for Demelza to be odd. I have never seen it that way. She often had to make decisions on Ross's behalf when he wasn't there - the villagers petitioned her all the time. But only a few of these were intrinsic to the plot and therefore told in more detail. The "bank" was extremely important to Demelza, and she acted according to the instincts of her heart. I see it as quite similar to her actions in bringing Verity and Andrew together.

In the first two episodes, I do feel that they have mangled the relationship between the Carnes and R & D. They have made them too familiar with each other - the boys need to be more deferential in general. Drake is not as in awe of Geoffrey Charles as he ought to be.



-- Edited by Fijane on Wednesday 28th of June 2017 02:55:35 AM

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Date: Jun 27 10:28 PM, 2017
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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

In my opinion, this is going from bad to worse.

I do not enjoy seeing Demelza behaving in a manner completely unlike the books.  Yes, she did occasionally take matters into her own hands, but giving her brothers a barn to convert into a church?  Ross would have gone ballistic if that had happened.  It is one thing to allow them to renovate an old mine building some distance away; this is on their doorstep! 

The new characters being introduced are more caricatures to my mind.  Tholly, yes - he is an old rogue, but Ross in the books makes it perfectly clear to him who is the 'boss' and if he doesn't toe the line woe betide him.  I can see the draw of portraying the Revolution in all its blood and gore, but WG, who as we know was meticulous about historical accuracy, said that the small fishing villages were pretty much left alone to continue trading with the English.  I have read this elsewhere too.  It looked very peculiar to see two men lurking in Roscoff, obviously not natives and only being picked up when Ross refuses the landlady's attentions.  That is actually quite a good scene to have been enacted faithfully too.  I suppose it wasn't dramatic enough, without a fight thrown in.

As far as I can see, they are trying to make Ross a super hero, all action, brooding and galloping everywhere.  The trouble is, he wasn't really like that in very much of the books.  He spent time at home, doing paperwork, up at the mine, always busy, yes, but not constantly punching his way out of trouble.  He is being made into a modern day type action man, probably because that is what audiences have become used to seeing. 

Perhaps Mammoth Screen think it would be boring for the majority if they kept the main characters as they are on the page.  Maybe they don't credit us with any appreciation of subtlety, or perhaps they are scared to try.

Sorry, but I am really disappointed in how this is developing and I have heard many comments from locals who do not watch any more or say it hasn't the draw that even the 1970s series had.

What do others feel?


Interesting you saw the gift of the storehouse that way. I thought it a good way to begin laying the groundwork for making sense of something WG had Demelza do in "The Angry Tide" that I found to be totally out of character for the post-Bodmin version of herself. (To avoid being a spoiler, let me just say it involved a bank.)

I did come across an observation somewhere that Ross' fight scene must be his audition tape for James Bond. 



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Date: Jun 27 8:23 PM, 2017
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In my opinion, this is going from bad to worse.

I do not enjoy seeing Demelza behaving in a manner completely unlike the books.  Yes, she did occasionally take matters into her own hands, but giving her brothers a barn to convert into a church?  Ross would have gone ballistic if that had happened.  It is one thing to allow them to renovate an old mine building some distance away; this is on their doorstep! 

The new characters being introduced are more caricatures to my mind.  Tholly, yes - he is an old rogue, but Ross in the books makes it perfectly clear to him who is the 'boss' and if he doesn't toe the line woe betide him.  I can see the draw of portraying the Revolution in all its blood and gore, but WG, who as we know was meticulous about historical accuracy, said that the small fishing villages were pretty much left alone to continue trading with the English.  I have read this elsewhere too.  It looked very peculiar to see two men lurking in Roscoff, obviously not natives and only being picked up when Ross refuses the landlady's attentions.  That is actually quite a good scene to have been enacted faithfully too.  I suppose it wasn't dramatic enough, without a fight thrown in.

As far as I can see, they are trying to make Ross a super hero, all action, brooding and galloping everywhere.  The trouble is, he wasn't really like that in very much of the books.  He spent time at home, doing paperwork, up at the mine, always busy, yes, but not constantly punching his way out of trouble.  He is being made into a modern day type action man, probably because that is what audiences have become used to seeing. 

Perhaps Mammoth Screen think it would be boring for the majority if they kept the main characters as they are on the page.  Maybe they don't credit us with any appreciation of subtlety, or perhaps they are scared to try.

Sorry, but I am really disappointed in how this is developing and I have heard many comments from locals who do not watch any more or say it hasn't the draw that even the 1970s series had.

What do others feel?



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