Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Favourites


Undergraduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 309
Date: Dec 15 10:20 PM, 2016
RE: Favourites
Permalink  
 


Stella Poldark wrote:
Aidan Turner has been talking about returning to the the theatre so it seems he will not be continuing beyond series 4. I wonder if Mammoth will find someone else or call it a day. 

         Stella


Not necessarily. Here in the US, television actors sometimes do limited-run stage productions during their show's hiatus period. I was under the impression that actors in the U.K. also do this. It keeps them busy -- and in town. If they make a movie during the hiatus, they can be halfway around the world. 



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 211
Date: Dec 15 4:52 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Ross Poldark wrote:
Stella Poldark wrote:

 

Aidan Turner has been talking about returning to the the theatre so it seems he will not be continuing beyond series 4. I wonder if Mammoth will find someone else or call it a day. 

Stella


 Well it would avoid the problem of Butto....


 Indeed it would Ross. I had not thought of that.

Stella



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Thursday 15th of December 2016 04:58:16 PM

__________________


Administration

Status: Offline
Posts: 1573
Date: Dec 15 2:09 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Stella Poldark wrote:

 

Aidan Turner has been talking about returning to the the theatre so it seems he will not be continuing beyond series 4. I wonder if Mammoth will find someone else or call it a day. 

Stella


 Well it would avoid the problem of Butto....



__________________

"Perfection is a full stop .... Ever the climbing but never the attaining Of the mountain top." W.G.

 

 



Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 211
Date: Dec 15 1:29 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Dark Mare wrote:
Mrs Gimlett wrote:

All the complicated decisions and scenes you describe, Dark Mare,  could have been avoided if they had followed the books more accurately.  The last few chapters are quite dramatic enough without additional inventions from DH & Co. 

I am one of those readers who found the books in the sixties and was so disappointed to finish Warleggan, knowing that was the end of the saga.  It is an excellent ending however, lurching from Ross trying to explain his actions and then Demelza adding her pennyworth, only to spoil it all.  I found myself wondering how they could possibly reconcile in the few pages left.  That is where WG was so clever.  He brought the story to a conclusion without  a frantic last minute tying-up of ends.  It was and still is, a brilliant ending, leaving the reader happy and sad, but also hopeful that everything really will work out for them.  I can remember being torn at wanting to read it to find what happened, but never wanting that book to end.

Don't forget, there was a gap of 20 years before the next book. I didn't have to wait that long, but it was years before The Black Moon arrived on the shelves.

From the TV point of view, I can see that galloping horses and crashing seas have an appeal.  What I cannot understand though, is the invention of so many scenes just for the sake of it.  If the story had been faithfully followed, making allowances for transition to film, the audience would have had their quota of the swashbuckling action and a final scene in the parlour/stables/kitchen would have made much more impact and sense than the few angry sentences and sulphurous looks we did get. Then suddenly, and for no apparent reason, R&D are on the cliff-edge again (perhaps it was meant to be a metaphor), and all appeared to be well.

I know what I prefer - can't beat the books.  We did have long discussions a few years ago about a radio series, which can often be more effective than film.

Perhaps I am just old fashioned, but I am convinced audiences are much more open to quiet dialogue and subtle scenes than producers want to give us. Going out with a bang, ending every episode with a cliff-hanger - is it all really necessary to keep an audience coming back?  If the story is good enough, won't they keep watching anyway?

 


 I saw an interview with Debbie Horsfield, the producer and the lead actors in which it was said some of the rearrangement of scenes was done to avoid location shooting in winter because it is too expensive. Is it possible that they had to make ten episodes on the same budget they got to make eight last year? It would explain the heavy reliance on B roll -- anonymous footage that can be reused repeatedly as filler, to mark scene changes, etc. That's your crashing waves and galloping horses -- as well as the opening shots for scenes set at Nampara, Trenwith, Kilewarren and Wheal Grace, among others. (In the Wheal Grace scene there are a few people and a black horse and they are always in the same spots so you can see that it is the same footage being reused.) As I understand it, everyone uses B roll, but this series seems to be more reliant on it. Or maybe has less of it to rely on. 

Personally, I agree with you on the quiet dialogue and subtle scenes, but living in Southern California, I do understand the economics of the entertainment industry. Quiet dialogue and subtle scenes work if you are making movies and television shows for a single country, but the industry is global now. Producers know audiences don't really like reading subtitles -- they can't read the subtitles and watch the action at the same time if there is too much dialogue -- or dubbing -- because it is distracting when the mouths are moving differently because the words being spoken and the ones being heard are not the same -- so it is better to use as little dialogue as possible. As they say in Hollywood, "Don't say it, show it."

Then again, "Downton Abbey" was successful in a surprisingly large number of countries all around the world, including many non-English-speaking ones, and it was very much a show of quiet dialogue and subtle scenes. However, it also looked extremely expensive to make. 


 Dark Mare - I have read in more than one place that each series costs £10m so it is likely that the 10 episode series had to be produced within the same budget as series 1 with 8 episodes. They did use many B rolls as you call them, including one when Ross and Demelza are in bed. Demelza is asleep and Ross is going through paperwork. The only difference is that they were on different sides of the bed. Debbie Horsfield has said that they film many of the horse riding scenes on the same day and use them more than once. Filming on location is much more costly than studio filming. It is a great pity that more money could not be found to fund the dramatisation of these very special books. If I go to the preview of series 3 I shall try to put a question about series 2. The weather was quite bad while they were filming series 2 in contrast to the southern mediterranean weather  during the filming of  series one. At one point the set of Wheal Grace blew off the cliff. Such things add to the cost.

Aidan Turner has been talking about returning to the the theatre so it seems he will not be continuing beyond series 4. I wonder if Mammoth will find someone else or call it a day. 

Stella



__________________


Undergraduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 309
Date: Dec 15 12:54 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Mrs Gimlett wrote:

All the complicated decisions and scenes you describe, Dark Mare,  could have been avoided if they had followed the books more accurately.  The last few chapters are quite dramatic enough without additional inventions from DH & Co. 

I am one of those readers who found the books in the sixties and was so disappointed to finish Warleggan, knowing that was the end of the saga.  It is an excellent ending however, lurching from Ross trying to explain his actions and then Demelza adding her pennyworth, only to spoil it all.  I found myself wondering how they could possibly reconcile in the few pages left.  That is where WG was so clever.  He brought the story to a conclusion without  a frantic last minute tying-up of ends.  It was and still is, a brilliant ending, leaving the reader happy and sad, but also hopeful that everything really will work out for them.  I can remember being torn at wanting to read it to find what happened, but never wanting that book to end.

Don't forget, there was a gap of 20 years before the next book. I didn't have to wait that long, but it was years before The Black Moon arrived on the shelves.

From the TV point of view, I can see that galloping horses and crashing seas have an appeal.  What I cannot understand though, is the invention of so many scenes just for the sake of it.  If the story had been faithfully followed, making allowances for transition to film, the audience would have had their quota of the swashbuckling action and a final scene in the parlour/stables/kitchen would have made much more impact and sense than the few angry sentences and sulphurous looks we did get. Then suddenly, and for no apparent reason, R&D are on the cliff-edge again (perhaps it was meant to be a metaphor), and all appeared to be well.

I know what I prefer - can't beat the books.  We did have long discussions a few years ago about a radio series, which can often be more effective than film.

Perhaps I am just old fashioned, but I am convinced audiences are much more open to quiet dialogue and subtle scenes than producers want to give us. Going out with a bang, ending every episode with a cliff-hanger - is it all really necessary to keep an audience coming back?  If the story is good enough, won't they keep watching anyway?

 


 I saw an interview with Debbie Horsfield, the producer and the lead actors in which it was said some of the rearrangement of scenes was done to avoid location shooting in winter because it is too expensive. Is it possible that they had to make ten episodes on the same budget they got to make eight last year? It would explain the heavy reliance on B roll -- anonymous footage that can be reused repeatedly as filler, to mark scene changes, etc. That's your crashing waves and galloping horses -- as well as the opening shots for scenes set at Nampara, Trenwith, Kilewarren and Wheal Grace, among others. (In the Wheal Grace scene there are a few people and a black horse and they are always in the same spots so you can see that it is the same footage being reused.) As I understand it, everyone uses B roll, but this series seems to be more reliant on it. Or maybe has less of it to rely on. 

Personally, I agree with you on the quiet dialogue and subtle scenes, but living in Southern California, I do understand the economics of the entertainment industry. Quiet dialogue and subtle scenes work if you are making movies and television shows for a single country, but the industry is global now. Producers know audiences don't really like reading subtitles -- they can't read the subtitles and watch the action at the same time if there is too much dialogue -- or dubbing -- because it is distracting when the mouths are moving differently because the words being spoken and the ones being heard are not the same -- so it is better to use as little dialogue as possible. As they say in Hollywood, "Don't say it, show it."

Then again, "Downton Abbey" was successful in a surprisingly large number of countries all around the world, including many non-English-speaking ones, and it was very much a show of quiet dialogue and subtle scenes. However, it also looked extremely expensive to make. 



__________________


Honorary Life Member. Forum Moderator

Status: Offline
Posts: 662
Date: Dec 15 9:52 AM, 2016
Permalink  
 

All the complicated decisions and scenes you describe, Dark Mare,  could have been avoided if they had followed the books more accurately.  The last few chapters are quite dramatic enough without additional inventions from DH & Co. 

I am one of those readers who found the books in the sixties and was so disappointed to finish Warleggan, knowing that was the end of the saga.  It is an excellent ending however, lurching from Ross trying to explain his actions and then Demelza adding her pennyworth, only to spoil it all.  I found myself wondering how they could possibly reconcile in the few pages left.  That is where WG was so clever.  He brought the story to a conclusion without  a frantic last minute tying-up of ends.  It was and still is, a brilliant ending, leaving the reader happy and sad, but also hopeful that everything really will work out for them.  I can remember being torn at wanting to read it to find what happened, but never wanting that book to end.

Don't forget, there was a gap of 20 years before the next book. I didn't have to wait that long, but it was years before The Black Moon arrived on the shelves.

From the TV point of view, I can see that galloping horses and crashing seas have an appeal.  What I cannot understand though, is the invention of so many scenes just for the sake of it.  If the story had been faithfully followed, making allowances for transition to film, the audience would have had their quota of the swashbuckling action and a final scene in the parlour/stables/kitchen would have made much more impact and sense than the few angry sentences and sulphurous looks we did get. Then suddenly, and for no apparent reason, R&D are on the cliff-edge again (perhaps it was meant to be a metaphor), and all appeared to be well.

I know what I prefer - can't beat the books.  We did have long discussions a few years ago about a radio series, which can often be more effective than film.

Perhaps I am just old fashioned, but I am convinced audiences are much more open to quiet dialogue and subtle scenes than producers want to give us. Going out with a bang, ending every episode with a cliff-hanger - is it all really necessary to keep an audience coming back?  If the story is good enough, won't they keep watching anyway?

 



__________________


Undergraduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 309
Date: Dec 15 6:22 AM, 2016
Permalink  
 

I think they would have been wiser to go with the ending they threw out. (I previously assumed they discarded that ending because they had used the wrong brooch in the market scene. [They used a gold brooch with an inset ruby, which was similar to the gold filigree one described in the book, instead of the one with a yellowish stone on a yellow ribbon used last season.]   But I just looked at the scene again, and now I'm not sure this mistake is why it was thrown out. The scene lasts less than three seconds and consists of the brooch and three hands -- Aidan Turner's right hand is passing the brooch into the jeweler's hands. It looks like something that could be fixed with CGI.) 

However, it didn't include was the speech from the book about bringing an idealized love down to the level of an imperfect one. (Given that I didn't like it in the book -- the wording seemed clumsy -- they could have lost it without losing me.)

There was something touching about the line explaining how he got her brooch back.

"That's my brooch, the one we sold. How did you find it again?"

"By searching." (Ross' gaze moves from the floor to Demelza's eyes) "And refusing to give up."

In the book he had found a similar brooch in a shop in London seemingly by chance. This is different. This isn't fate lending Ross a hand. This is Ross making the effort to restore to her the cherished thing -- her first piece of jewelry, which had been a gift from him -- she volunteered to sell to help make the interest payment on the £1,000 loan. (This would have been even more touching if they hadn't rewritten the "sell everything" scene to make it his idea and not hers.)

I now suspect the scene was discarded because the answer to Demelza's last question -- "What did you think when you saw Elizabeth tonight?"  -- didn't make sense because there was no shot of Ross and Elizabeth making eye contact in the confrontation scene outside Trenwith. (Either because no shot was called for in the script or it got deleted.) Without that, his line that she seemed a stranger, even an enemy, was too much of a stretch. Then again, I suppose it would have been difficult to shoot something that would convey her hostility when she is standing at a window inside the house and he is sitting on a horse amid a crowd assembled outside the house. How could they light the scene sufficiently for Ross to see her looking daggers at him from inside the dark house?

If they had used the discarded scene, they still would have had to tie up the loose end of Demelza's visit to Elizabeth. She had told Elizabeth she was leaving Ross and he was all hers if she wanted him. Her pride wouldn't let her back down from that simply on the basis of Ross answering "No" to George's question "Isn't that why you came back?" and extending his hand to her. It takes more than a ride home to win over Demelza. After all, she's "fierce, proud, steadfast and true." (Seriously, I had no trouble with that line. Wait, I do think starting with "fierce" was a little lame. But those of you who dislike it, were you looking for something more like "I'm steadfast and self-sufficient. I wanted you, but I didn't need you. And you didn't appreciate that, you punished me for it."?)

Still I like the deleted ending much better -- except Demelza asking if the thing he had for her was a bribe. That attempt to use something from the book failed because it was Ross who had said it was an attempted bribe:   

"... But if you suppose or suspect that in buying these things, I was hoping to buy myself back into your favor, then you're right. I admit it. It is true, my dear...."  

The deleted scene has more warmth to it. The scene they chose seemed cold and unresolved. Maybe it needed a geyser of beer. 

 

 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Thursday 15th of December 2016 06:25:20 AM

__________________


Initiate

Status: Offline
Posts: 87
Date: Dec 14 11:19 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

I so agree with this. I had really enjoyed the series, and could forgive a lot of what they did with it right up to the final episode. Even bits of that were OK. But they ruined it, not only as our beloved Poldark but also as a story-line in general. It could have been so beautiful, but instead it was as if they had manipulated it to fit into certain set pieces, so it lost all narrative and character flow. Demelza's awful speech about being steadfast and true was a disaster, Ross waiting to the last moment to change his mind about signing on was just silly (they seemed more concerned about setting up a cliff-hanger for the trailer) and the stuff about her going home to her father was ridiculous - not to mention being out-of-sequence to the logic of the story and undermining the nice bit at the end of the scene outside Trenwith (which I actually liked, and would have accepted as creating a visually dramatic crescendo to the series.) Ross's very simple "No" and holding out his hand to her, and them just turning their backs and riding away was brilliant. It would have led perfectly into their final romantic reconciliation, but they went and mucked it up! 



__________________


Initiate

Status: Offline
Posts: 71
Date: Nov 30 6:28 AM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Stella Poldark wrote:
MrsMartin wrote:

 I'm sorry but I don't think that Debbie Horsfield's adaptation after May 9th, is smart in anyway. What she has done is to reduce Ross to a stereotypical feminist version of a male that has no sensitivity, no understanding,  no respect,  no ownership for his actions and then he considers running away rather than face them.This is evident in the brilliant lines she gave Ross' to spew, "I had not choice.", yes, that is the thing you tell your wife after you have come home from having sex with your first love; "I know that I betrayed your trust and that your pride is wounded", this is an uncaring man that doesn't understand, that it is her heart that is wounded; he says "If you could see it from his prospective", he tells her that "In the moment, I admit it. There was no thought of you." this is an insensitive man that doesn't appreciate the extent of the pain he has inflicted and then he asks, "Demelza, it was one night. How long will it take you to forgive me?",  this is how he asks for forgiveness.  The implication that he would run away and go to war, because it would be better fight the enemy, than to stay at home and fight for his marriage, is insulting.

What bothers me the most of Debbie Horsfield's version of a "feisty" Demelza, is that she has reduced her to a character with few emotions. Demelza shows no pleasure in Ross' success in the mine or concern when he comes home all bloodied from his meeting with George, she doesn't show in anyway still loves or cares for Ross, all she displays is anger and contempt.  She doesn't show any gratitude for what Caroline did for them, she tells Elizabeth that she is welcome to Ross, that she is leaving Ross and that she refuses to be second best. Why would she leave Ross, when Ross has already stated that he was going to rejoin his regiment and go off to war?

It suspends belief that these two characters would reconcile, by Ross simply stating that his one true real love was for Demelza and that Elizabeth would never come between them again. Without showing that he is truly sorry for his actions or the pain he has inflicted and without showing that Demelza needs or wants to be asked for her forgiveness,  how do they start to heal? I am absolutely disgusted with this adaptations handling of the aftermath of May 9th.

 

 


 I agree with all you say Mrs Martin. When I read Warleggan the book I have sympathy with both Ross and Demelza and what happened, as described in the book, feels 'real'. Yes I feel exasperated with Ross, but he is so emotionally illiterate and seems unable to communicate with Demelza. When I watched episodes 8 to 10 my sympathy for Demelza drained away. That told me that DH had got it wrong but looking at the published scripts we cannot blame her entirely. The scripts have been tampered with throughout, with a lot cut out and the order of things changed. If I can I will post some examples.



Mrs Martin - I totally agree with everything you say.  Such a relief to find fellow commiserators. Stella, I have downloaded the script and while there are some things that have been changed, I think the TV series does reflect DH's intention. In her script, Demelza is shrewish, Ross says I had no choice, Demelza hits him, there is no gradual thaw, Ross does say it was only one night, the miners go to Trenwith to burn it down. There is barely any change in their relationship until Ross says Demelza is his true love. And then they live happily ever after. And no apology! Just garbage. 



__________________


Initiate

Status: Offline
Posts: 71
Date: Nov 30 6:13 AM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Stella Poldark wrote:

My sentence is from Warleggan - near the end of the book at the end of Chapter 6 after 

"If the history of the last ten years had been the tragedy of a woman unable to make up her mind, the last six months was the history of a man in a similar case."

"For a long time he had been quite unsure of his own feelings; then they had crystallised; and from that moment a private meeting was impossible.

Now it was too late."

My reason is that I cannot decide its likely meaning. Does it mean that Ross had finally realised it was Demelza he loved or Elizabeth? Why from that moment was a private meeting impossible? Did Ross feel he could not tell Elizabeth face to face that he loved Demelza? Or did he think he could not resist Elizabeth if he met her again? Or did he, as we all must hope, realise that his real and abiding love was forDemelza as he tells her later in the book? WG loves to leaves us uncertain. I would love to hear how others interpret its meaning. 

Stella



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Saturday 19th of November 2016 02:43:28 PM


By this point in the text Ross realizes Demelza Is his true love. He hasn't yet declared his love, but it's obvious he's worked this out for himself. I take The sentence "Now it was too late" to mean that it would've been disloyal to Demelza to have a private meeting with Elizabeth once his feelings had crystalized. 



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 176
Date: Nov 29 11:24 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Now there is a lull after the conclusion of series 2, we have a chance to dip in the books at leisure.

What joy...

 

What is your favourite sentence?  It can be from any of the books and any of the characters.

We could post the sentence without a reference, and see how quickly it is recognised.  Or you can tell us why you like it above all the other thousands.  Perhaps we should try to keep to just the one or at most two sentences.

 

I await replies

Mrs G


 Mrs. Gimlett,

I can't confine myself to one sentence I'm afraid.

Demelza was one of those women who usually contrive to retain some element of attractiveness under the most adverse conditions; and he had seen her in plenty; hair lank and sweaty with fever, face twisted in the pains of childbirth, dirty and unkempt from taking some nasty job out of the servants hands; bitter from that long disastrous quarrel. But perhaps her greatest asset was an ability to bloom with, excitement at, quite small things. Nothing ever seemed to stale. The first baby wren to hatch was as fascinating this year as last. An evening out was as much of an adventure at twenty-six as it had been at sixteen. 

Just some of the many reasons, Ross loves and appreciates Demelza. This is why Elizabeth could never hold a candle to Demelza, in his heart. 



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 176
Date: Nov 29 1:56 AM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Stella,

Anything you can supply and at anytime. I will wait for as long as it takes you. Thank you in advance for your effort.

Mrs. Martin



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 211
Date: Nov 28 8:11 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

MrsMartin wrote:

Stella, 

Anything you can supply will be sufficient and much appreciated.

 


 I will scan in some relevant pages which will show the sort of changes that were made to Debbie H's scripts. I will do this as soon as I can but I have a rather busy week so don't think I've forgotten.

Stella



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 101
Date: Nov 28 3:45 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Dark Mare wrote:

Adderley's death was in part Demelza's fault, and her mistake was not telling Ross the night he introduced her to the man that practically the first words out of Adderley's mouth to her were about his dueling exploits. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although the duel was inevitable (especially once George tasked Monk with seducing Demelza), I too think that Demelza was more than a little to blame; however my reasons are very different. Demelza knew Ross was deeply wounded by and still smarting from her affair of the heart with Hugh Armitage, which she practically flaunted in his face. Her self-absorption in that affair vied with Elizabeth's in her games with Ross. Any sensible and truly sensitive woman attempting to re-build her marriage and her husband's trust in her would have avoided Monk like the plague. Instead she invites his company. Her excuse, that she was not gentle born and not sure how to act in society, had worn thin by the Angry Tide. I don't believe that any woman, gentle or rough born, would have behaved as Demelza did with Monk. That whole conversation between her and Ross after Demelza acquiesced to Monk's caresses in the theatre was disturbing. When Ross took exception to her behavior (as any husband would have), she again countered with the tired excuse that she didn't know how to act in society. She asserted, "I have to be polite!?"  To Ross' question, "Why?" she offers the most self-centered, coquettish excuses, with no consideration for her husband's feelings, and once again tries to shift the blame to him:

 "Sometimes, Ross, you try me hard. You really do. I am - I am in London for the first time? A man comes up to me and starts paying me compliments. He is a - he is educated, well bred, a member of Parliament. Do I turn my back on him to please you? [Yes! --my interjection] Do I smack his face to satisfy you? Do I sit in a corner and refuse to answer him? Better that I should never have come!'"

"Better that you should never have come than that he should contrive to paw you? He must know every bone in your left arm from wrist to shoulder.' There was silence. 'Then tell me what I must do,' Demelza said. 'Do you wish me to go home?' 'Of course not!' 'Tell me how I must behave then.' 'You know very well how to behave.' 'That's not fair! Anyway,' Demelza said mutinously, 'he won't take no for an answer. He says he is coming to take me to Vauxhall."

This just doesn't show any understanding or compassion on her part. I think Demelza was more than a little taken with Monk's bad boy persona. I don't see any real growth in Demelza up to that point. Demelza's childhood deprivations aside, she seems to have gained little maturity over the years. She remains a truly sweet-natured, charming, caring person, but I just don't see her accepting any responsibility for any of her actions that would indicate a deepening maturity. Like her body which ages little, her maturity seems similarly static.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dark Mare wrote: I do wonder why Ross accepted Lord Falmouth's patronage...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ross accepted the Falmouth proposal because he wanted to get as far away from Demelza as he could and Parliament offered an immediate escape. The military was a poor, second choice. He had no quarrel with the Boscawens. He even told Dwight that, except for making a cuckold of him, he admired HA (that's a big person). One can only imagine what Ross would have had to endure at the funeral with Demelza grieving so openly and so rawly for HA. Ross was sick at heart and needed to distance himself. I find it interesting that people (not necessary on this site) are so quick to sympathize with Demelza's devastation when Ross betrayed her with Elizabeth, yet cannot equally sympathize with Ross' deep depression when Demelza cheated on him with HA.  As he confided to Caroline:  

"When I first found out about Demelza it was as if I had lost some belief - some faith in human character. It was not so much her I blamed as - as something in humanity... 'It was like finding an absolute flawed. If something has driven me of late, there may be jealousy in it, but it is not just jealousy. At times I have discovered a new lowness of spirit, a new need to revolt, to kick against the constraints that a civilized life tries to impose.' He stopped and regarded her. 'Because what is civilized life but an imposition of unreal standards upon flawed and defective human beings by other human beings no less flawed and defective? It has seemed to me that there is a rottenness to it that I have constantly wanted to kick against and to overset.' He stopped again, breathing slowly, trying to marshal the complexities of his own feelings."

 Fundamentally, this is the story of two people who keep hurting each other deeply yet still manage to care for each other deeply. I am awed by WG's intense, often painful, examination of the nature of love and its associated emotions, with their sometimes devastating effects on the heart and soul.   

 



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 176
Date: Nov 27 8:15 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Stella, 

Anything you can supply will be sufficient and much appreciated.

 



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 211
Date: Nov 27 7:30 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

MrsMartin wrote:

 Stella,

If you could please post some of the published scripts, that show that Debbie Horsfield didn't get pivotal period in the books so totally wrong, I would appreciated it. As it stands right now I am unsure that I will continue watching this adaptation. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think I can go that far. The scripts book is much thicker this year even allowing for the extra 2 episodes. I will see what I can post from episodes 8 to 10. Would that be sufficient? It will have to be later in the week but I will do what I can.

Stella

 



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Sunday 27th of November 2016 07:31:07 PM

__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 176
Date: Nov 27 7:23 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Stella Poldark wrote:

 I agree with all you say Mrs Martin. When I read Warleggan the book I have sympathy with both Ross and Demelza and what happened, as described in the book, feels 'real'. Yes I feel exasperated with Ross, but he is so emotionally illiterate and seems unable to communicate with Demelza. When I watched episodes 8 to 10 my sympathy for Demelza drained away. That told me that DH had got it wrong but looking at the published scripts we cannot blame her entirely. The scripts have been tampered with throughout, with a lot cut out and the order of things changed. If I can I will post some examples.


 Stella,

If you could please post some of the published scripts, that show that Debbie Horsfield didn't get pivotal period in the books so totally wrong, I would appreciated it. As it stands right now I am unsure that I will continue watching this adaptation. 



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 211
Date: Nov 27 7:12 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

MrsMartin wrote:

 I'm sorry but I don't think that Debbie Horsfield's adaptation after May 9th, is smart in anyway. What she has done is to reduce Ross to a stereotypical feminist version of a male that has no sensitivity, no understanding,  no respect,  no ownership for his actions and then he considers running away rather than face them.This is evident in the brilliant lines she gave Ross' to spew, "I had not choice.", yes, that is the thing you tell your wife after you have come home from having sex with your first love; "I know that I betrayed your trust and that your pride is wounded", this is an uncaring man that doesn't understand, that it is her heart that is wounded; he says "If you could see it from his prospective", he tells her that "In the moment, I admit it. There was no thought of you." this is an insensitive man that doesn't appreciate the extent of the pain he has inflicted and then he asks, "Demelza, it was one night. How long will it take you to forgive me?",  this is how he asks for forgiveness.  The implication that he would run away and go to war, because it would be better fight the enemy, than to stay at home and fight for his marriage, is insulting.

What bothers me the most of Debbie Horsfield's version of a "feisty" Demelza, is that she has reduced her to a character with few emotions. Demelza shows no pleasure in Ross' success in the mine or concern when he comes home all bloodied from his meeting with George, she doesn't show in anyway still loves or cares for Ross, all she displays is anger and contempt.  She doesn't show any gratitude for what Caroline did for them, she tells Elizabeth that she is welcome to Ross, that she is leaving Ross and that she refuses to be second best. Why would she leave Ross, when Ross has already stated that he was going to rejoin his regiment and go off to war?

It suspends belief that these two characters would reconcile, by Ross simply stating that his one true real love was for Demelza and that Elizabeth would never come between them again. Without showing that he is truly sorry for his actions or the pain he has inflicted and without showing that Demelza needs or wants to be asked for her forgiveness,  how do they start to heal? I am absolutely disgusted with this adaptations handling of the aftermath of May 9th.

 

 


 I agree with all you say Mrs Martin. When I read Warleggan the book I have sympathy with both Ross and Demelza and what happened, as described in the book, feels 'real'. Yes I feel exasperated with Ross, but he is so emotionally illiterate and seems unable to communicate with Demelza. When I watched episodes 8 to 10 my sympathy for Demelza drained away. That told me that DH had got it wrong but looking at the published scripts we cannot blame her entirely. The scripts have been tampered with throughout, with a lot cut out and the order of things changed. If I can I will post some examples.



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 176
Date: Nov 27 3:56 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Dark Mare wrote:
 

Debbie Horsfield was smart to have deleted this and instead had Demelza arrange his move downstairs -- and how dumb of PBS to trim the scene that told him he had new, less comfortable accommodations. The look on Aidan Turner's face when he opens the door and finds the made-up cot with the letter on the pillow makes no sense without the preceding scene telling him there is a letter from Elizabeth in the library "on your pillow." 

I think Horsfield's Demelza has taken Francis' advice to heart, and although she comes off as feistier -- and maybe even shrewish to some viewers -- it is the right call. Why did WG bother to put Francis' advice in the book if Demelza wasn't supposed to take it? And yet, she didn't in the book. 

Then again, Horsfield did cheat Demelza out of a real apology, which was what she was holding out for, unaware that Ross thought his voluntary banishment was the apology. Nope, not if the recipient misinterprets it as a rejection.  

 



 I'm sorry but I don't think that Debbie Horsfield's adaptation after May 9th, is smart in anyway. What she has done is to reduce Ross to a stereotypical feminist version of a male that has no sensitivity, no understanding,  no respect,  no ownership for his actions and then he considers running away rather than face them.This is evident in the brilliant lines she gave Ross' to spew, "I had not choice.", yes, that is the thing you tell your wife after you have come home from having sex with your first love; "I know that I betrayed your trust and that your pride is wounded", this is an uncaring man that doesn't understand, that it is her heart that is wounded; he says "If you could see it from his prospective", he tells her that "In the moment, I admit it. There was no thought of you." this is an insensitive man that doesn't appreciate the extent of the pain he has inflicted and then he asks, "Demelza, it was one night. How long will it take you to forgive me?",  this is how he asks for forgiveness.  The implication that he would run away and go to war, because it would be better fight the enemy, than to stay at home and fight for his marriage, is insulting.

What bothers me the most of Debbie Horsfield's version of a "feisty" Demelza, is that she has reduced her to a character with few emotions. Demelza shows no pleasure in Ross' success in the mine or concern when he comes home all bloodied from his meeting with George, she doesn't show in anyway still loves or cares for Ross, all she displays is anger and contempt.  She doesn't show any gratitude for what Caroline did for them, she tells Elizabeth that she is welcome to Ross, that she is leaving Ross and that she refuses to be second best. Why would she leave Ross, when Ross has already stated that he was going to rejoin his regiment and go off to war?

It suspends belief that these two characters would reconcile, by Ross simply stating that his one true real love was for Demelza and that Elizabeth would never come between them again. Without showing that he is truly sorry for his actions or the pain he has inflicted and without showing that Demelza needs or wants to be asked for her forgiveness,  how do they start to heal? I am absolutely disgusted with this adaptations handling of the aftermath of May 9th.

 

 



__________________


Undergraduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 309
Date: Nov 27 7:21 AM, 2016
Permalink  
 

MrsMartin wrote:
 I believe it is also the reason it took him so long to apologise to Demelza after May 9th. He had been disloyal to her and to him that was absolutely unforgivable. Therefore, he could not for the longest time beg her for her forgiveness.

  

Which only made the situation worse because Demelza, not recalling Francis' advice

"I believe that a greater regard for yourself, a greater personal independence on your part ... If you look on his feeling for Elizabeth as something unreal, and by exposing to it your own warm blood and your own good sense ... How can she stand against those?"

took his distance as the very thing it wasn't, a rejection of her. Ross, like the schoolboy who knows he's going to stand in the corner for what he just did on the playground so he goes right to the corner without being told to, banished himself to his father's old room, assuming that she was going to bar him from their bedroom. Major error on his part because Demelza didn't realize he was acknowledging wrongdoing and accepting his punishment. She thought he was repulsed by her after having experienced the fragile charms of the lilylike Elizabeth. 

Debbie Horsfield was smart to have deleted this and instead had Demelza arrange his move downstairs -- and how dumb of PBS to trim the scene that told him he had new, less comfortable accommodations. The look on Aidan Turner's face when he opens the door and finds the made-up cot with the letter on the pillow makes no sense without the preceding scene telling him there is a letter from Elizabeth in the library "on your pillow." 

I think Horsfield's Demelza has taken Francis' advice to heart, and although she comes off as feistier -- and maybe even shrewish to some viewers -- it is the right call. Why did WG bother to put Francis' advice in the book if Demelza wasn't supposed to take it? And yet, she didn't in the book. 

Then again, Horsfield did cheat Demelza out of a real apology, which was what she was holding out for, unaware that Ross thought his voluntary banishment was the apology. Nope, not if the recipient misinterprets it as a rejection. 

 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Sunday 27th of November 2016 07:22:08 AM



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Sunday 27th of November 2016 07:23:37 AM



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Sunday 27th of November 2016 07:28:26 AM

__________________


Undergraduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 309
Date: Nov 27 3:04 AM, 2016
Permalink  
 

The issue isn't what he believes once he has calmed down and thought about it but the nasty conclusion he initially jumps to. None of the women in his life are "easy," least of all Demelza. Why does he initially expect it of her? That's what I'm getting at.

Adderley's death was in part Demelza's fault, and her mistake was not telling Ross the night he introduced her to the man that practically the first words out of Adderley's mouth to her were about his dueling exploits. (She had admired the buttons on his coat, and he told her the hair inside the buttons were from the last man he killed in a duel. He then proceeded to tell her about all his duels.) Knowing Ross has a hair trigger and is too quick to take offense at comments made about her, she decided she must avoid ruffling Adderley's feathers no matter what. Big mistake. Had she first reminded Ross of what he had told her about the first time he met Adderley -- something like the hairs on the back of his neck stood up -- she would have been able to tell him about the conversation about dueling without repercussions if she had said she now knew what he had meant about the hairs on the back of his neck.

Ross had immediately recognized that Demelza was out of her depth with Hugh Armitage, and he had made an effort to be supportive. But with Adderley, he acted jealous -- yes, Caroline did call that one right -- and assumed the worst. She was afraid to tell him she feared Adderley would try to push him into a duel because it might cause one, but that is exactly what happened because she didn't tell him

I do wonder why Ross accepted Lord Falmouth's patronage if he was so desperately hurt by the Armitage affair. Maybe I'm weird, but I would want nothing to do with the Boscawens. 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Sunday 27th of November 2016 03:07:55 AM

__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 176
Date: Nov 25 1:17 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Dark Mare wrote:

That's not exactly true. Long before he had ever heard of Hugh Armitage, Ross was jumping to wrong conclusions about Demelza and other men and then talking himself down because his suspicions made no sense. On Page 162 of Chapter 18 in "Jeremy Poldark," Ross lies to Demelza when she catches him thinking about Elizabeth the night of the second Christmas visit to Trenwith, and then he asks her about Bodmin:

He said, What did you do with your time while you were in Bodmin? Youve never told me.

Demelza hesitated but felt this the worst moment for confessions. I was so worried I cant hardly remember I dont know what I shouldve done if it hadnt been for Verity, that I dont.

No, Ross said dryly. So she was hiding something. Queer if she too had met someone. But who? In that seething jumble almost anyone in Cornwall. One of the Trevaunances? She had been visiting there before the trial on some strange business of her own. It would explain her interest now in Caroline Penvenen, her shying away from where they had met. Oh, it was impossible. The Trevaunances were not her sort, nor she theirs

(Poor Demelza lied here because she was too embarrassed to tell him about her failed attempt to help. I suspect she was still shaken by the fact that she had willingly put his life in greater danger and her own freedom at risk because she was so sure she could save the day even though people who knew more than she did had told her what she had in mind would make things worse for Ross, not better.) 

 


 Ross knows she is hiding something and he is feeling guilty for having thoughts about Elizabeth but that doesn't mean that he believes that Demelza has been disloyal to him.

Ross checked his horse. 'If by difficult times you mean Demelza's passion for Lieutenant Armitage, then, yes, I grant you, they were difficult. What do you do about a young man, a brave one, in many ways an admirable one, but sick - and as it turned out mortal sick -who attempts - and succeeds or fails, I know not - to make a cuckold of you? And what do you do about a wife whose loyalty has hitherto been absolute, and you see her like a sapling blown in a hurricane, bowing to the ground, perhaps uprooted by it?



__________________


Undergraduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 309
Date: Nov 25 12:09 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

MrsMartin wrote:

The discontent had been more active since Francis died; but all the same Demelza had known him in and out of love with herself, more in than out, and had felt that that intense sense of, loyalties which was one of the faults and one of the virtues of his nature would preserve him to herself in the last resort.

I love this line because describes the dichotomy of Ross' sense of loyalty. I never really realised that loyalty was such key characteristic traits of Ross and how important it is for him. It explains why he feels so betrayed when people have been disloyal to him and how he deeply he feels when he as been disloyal to someone. It is one of the things that he cherishes in Demelza and never questions, until Hugh.

 


That's not exactly true. Long before he had ever heard of Hugh Armitage, Ross was jumping to wrong conclusions about Demelza and other men and then talking himself down because his suspicions made no sense. On Page 162 of Chapter 18 in "Jeremy Poldark," Ross lies to Demelza when she catches him thinking about Elizabeth the night of the second Christmas visit to Trenwith, and then he asks her about Bodmin:

He said, What did you do with your time while you were in Bodmin? Youve never told me.

Demelza hesitated but felt this the worst moment for confessions. I was so worried I cant hardly remember I dont know what I shouldve done if it hadnt been for Verity, that I dont.

No, Ross said dryly. So she was hiding something. Queer if she too had met someone. But who? In that seething jumble almost anyone in Cornwall. One of the Trevaunances? She had been visiting there before the trial on some strange business of her own. It would explain her interest now in Caroline Penvenen, her shying away from where they had met. Oh, it was impossible. The Trevaunances were not her sort, nor she theirs

(Poor Demelza lied here because she was too embarrassed to tell him about her failed attempt to help. I suspect she was still shaken by the fact that she had willingly put his life in greater danger and her own freedom at risk because she was so sure she could save the day even though people who knew more than she did had told her what she had in mind would make things worse for Ross, not better.)

 

 



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 176
Date: Nov 24 8:30 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Stella Poldark wrote:

 I had not thought through the importance of loyalty to Ross until now but, as you point out Mrs Martin, it is vital to Ross. Any disloyalty seems to wound him deeply. Perhaps he saw Elizabeth's betrothal to Francis as disloyalty. He certainly felt her decision to marry George as disloyalty of the worst kind.


 I believe it is also the reason it took him so long to apologise to Demelza after May 9th. He had been disloyal to her and to him that was absolutely unforgivable. Therefore, he could not for the longest time beg her for her forgiveness.



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 211
Date: Nov 24 8:17 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

MrsMartin wrote:

The discontent had been more active since Francis died; but all the same Demelza had known him in and out of love with herself, more in than out, and had felt that that intense sense of, loyalties which was one of the faults and one of the virtues of his nature would preserve him to herself in the last resort.

I love this line because describes the dichotomy of Ross' sense of loyalty. I never really realised that loyalty was such key characteristic traits of Ross and how important it is for him. It explains why he feels so betrayed when people have been disloyal to him and how he deeply he feels when he as been disloyal to someone. It is one of the things that he cherishes in Demelza and never questions, until Hugh.

 


 I had not thought through the importance of loyalty to Ross until now but, as you point out Mrs Martin, it is vital to Ross. Any disloyalty seems to wound him deeply. Perhaps he saw Elizabeth's betrothal to Francis as disloyalty. He certainly felt her decision to marry George as disloyalty of the worst kind.



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 176
Date: Nov 24 6:57 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

The discontent had been more active since Francis died; but all the same Demelza had known him in and out of love with herself, more in than out, and had felt that that intense sense of, loyalties which was one of the faults and one of the virtues of his nature would preserve him to herself in the last resort.

I love this line because describes the dichotomy of Ross' sense of loyalty. I never really realised that loyalty was such key characteristic traits of Ross and how important it is for him. It explains why he feels so betrayed when people have been disloyal to him and how he deeply he feels when he as been disloyal to someone. It is one of the things that he cherishes in Demelza and never questions, until Hugh.

 



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 147
Date: Nov 22 4:38 AM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Mrs Gimlett wrote:

She had already grown into his life, he thought.

 

Ross'  coming awareness of his new, young wife.  It held the possibility of hope and love with the girl he had become familiar with over four years; of her abounding energy and youth and zest which somehow infected him too.  Together, they could achieve things - it was a new beginning for him.

 

from: Ross Poldark, book 3, chapter 1, part III


 Yes, beautiful. Laying the foundation for their long and mostly happy marriage.



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 176
Date: Nov 22 3:35 AM, 2016
Permalink  
 

 But at this evening hour of Christmas Day, 1787, he was not concerned with the future, only the present.  He thought: I am not hungry or thirsty or lustful or envious; I am not perplexed or weary or ambitious or remorseful. Just ahead, in the immediate future, there is waiting an open door and a warm house, comfortable chairs and quietness and companionship. Let me hold it.

The true meaning of contentment that is so rare and so precious.



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 147
Date: Nov 22 2:39 AM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Dark Mare wrote:

I have always especially liked this advice that Francis gave Demelza the day he died:

"Get rid of the notion that someone has done you a favour by taking you into our family."


I loved this one too. Francis was one of the first to truly recognise Demelza for the quality lady she was. In some ways, it highlights the wonderful husband Elizabeth could have had, if she had only been capable of responding to him in any way.



__________________


Honorary Life Member. Forum Moderator

Status: Offline
Posts: 662
Date: Nov 21 5:15 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

She had already grown into his life, he thought.

 

Ross'  coming awareness of his new, young wife.  It held the possibility of hope and love with the girl he had become familiar with over four years; of her abounding energy and youth and zest which somehow infected him too.  Together, they could achieve things - it was a new beginning for him.

 

from: Ross Poldark, book 3, chapter 1, part III



__________________


Administration

Status: Offline
Posts: 1573
Date: Nov 21 4:22 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

From "The Loving Cup" - Jeremy and Cuby

'Will you come?' he asked again.

'Yes, please,' she said.

_____________________

After Waterloo when Cuby suddenly saw Ross and agonisingly realised what had happened was for me WG's most memorable passage in all the books.



__________________

"Perfection is a full stop .... Ever the climbing but never the attaining Of the mountain top." W.G.

 

 



Undergraduate

Status: Offline
Posts: 309
Date: Nov 21 3:12 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

I have always especially liked this advice that Francis gave Demelza the day he died:

"Get rid of the notion that someone has done you a favour by taking you into our family."



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 176
Date: Nov 20 9:24 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Stella Poldark wrote:

Mrs Martin - I am indebted to you for clarifying so well and so completely my confusion and lack of piecing together all the relevant parts of this. There is so much in the Poldark books that is vital to remember. Winston Graham wasted very few words on anything that wasn't crucial to the story and the characters. 

Stella

 -- Edited by Stella Poldark on Sunday 20th of November 2016 05:11:18 PM


 Stella,

One of the wonderful things about Winston Graham as an author, is that he assumes the reader intelligence and he leads them, with little clues, to discover their own interpretations of his work.  

 

 

 



-- Edited by MrsMartin on Monday 21st of November 2016 03:20:24 AM

__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 211
Date: Nov 20 5:10 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

MrsMartin wrote:
Stella Poldark wrote:

My sentence is from Warleggan - near the end of the book at the end of Chapter 6 after 

"If the history of the last ten years had been the tragedy of a woman unable to make up her mind, the last six months was the history of a man in a similar case."

"For a long time he had been quite unsure of his own feelings; then they had crystallised; and from that moment a private meeting was impossible.

Now it was too late."

My reason is that I cannot decide its likely meaning. Does it mean that Ross had finally realised it was Demelza he loved or Elizabeth? Why from that moment was a private meeting impossible? Did Ross feel he could not tell Elizabeth face to face that he loved Demelza? Or did he think he could not resist Elizabeth if he met her again? Or did he, as we all must hope, realise that his real and abiding love was forDemelza as he tells her later in the book? WG loves to leaves us uncertain. I would love to hear how others interpret its meaning. 

Stella



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Saturday 19th of November 2016 02:43:28 PM


 Stella,

I don't think that Ross' love for Demelza was ever in question, "What I felt for you has always been assessable, comparable, something human and part of an ordinary life.The other, my feeling for Elizabeth, was not. " Ross couldn't face Elizabeth to tell her, "One is that if you bring an idealised relationship down to the level of an ordinary: one, it isn't always the ordinary one, that suffers. For a time, after that night, things were upside down - for a time nothing came clear. When it did, when it began, to, the one, sure feeling that stood out was that my true and real love was not for her but for you.' 

 

It is funny you should quote this because one of my favourite quotes is when Ross and Demelza meet on the beach.

' The only ones he was sure of were Demelza's, and as he neared home he knew that some personal decisions had to be made and faced quickly if this own attitude was not to go by default. But how could he explain or justify what he did not understand himself? 

At face value it seems to say that he understands or knows what Demelza is feeling and that he had to make up is mind if he loved Elizabeth or Demelza. However, if you look at it in the contents of what he says later;  `You still think I've been at Trenwith this weekend. I haven't. I never had an intention of going.  He never had an intention of going to Elizabeth and then he says: `It is quite possible that Elizabeth's marriage to George will still take place.' It was possible that Elizabeth and George would marry because he had no intentions of trying to stop it again. Given those two statements to me it seems to state that he knew that it was Demelza he loved and that his love for her was ordinary, everyday and real.


 Mrs Martin - I am indebted to you for clarifying so well and so completely my confusion and lack of piecing together all the relevant parts of this. There is so much in the Poldark books that is vital to remember. Winston Graham wasted very few words on anything that wasn't crucial to the story and the characters. 

Stella

 



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Sunday 20th of November 2016 05:11:18 PM

__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 176
Date: Nov 20 3:35 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Stella Poldark wrote:

My sentence is from Warleggan - near the end of the book at the end of Chapter 6 after 

"If the history of the last ten years had been the tragedy of a woman unable to make up her mind, the last six months was the history of a man in a similar case."

"For a long time he had been quite unsure of his own feelings; then they had crystallised; and from that moment a private meeting was impossible.

Now it was too late."

My reason is that I cannot decide its likely meaning. Does it mean that Ross had finally realised it was Demelza he loved or Elizabeth? Why from that moment was a private meeting impossible? Did Ross feel he could not tell Elizabeth face to face that he loved Demelza? Or did he think he could not resist Elizabeth if he met her again? Or did he, as we all must hope, realise that his real and abiding love was forDemelza as he tells her later in the book? WG loves to leaves us uncertain. I would love to hear how others interpret its meaning. 

Stella



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Saturday 19th of November 2016 02:43:28 PM


 Stella,

I don't think that Ross' love for Demelza was ever in question, "What I felt for you has always been assessable, comparable, something human and part of an ordinary life.The other, my feeling for Elizabeth, was not. " Ross couldn't face Elizabeth to tell her, "One is that if you bring an idealised relationship down to the level of an ordinary: one, it isn't always the ordinary one, that suffers. For a time, after that night, things were upside down - for a time nothing came clear. When it did, when it began, to, the one, sure feeling that stood out was that my true and real love was not for her but for you.' 

It is funny you should quote this because one of my favourite quotes is when Ross and Demelza meet on the beach.

' The only ones he was sure of were Demelza's, and as he neared home he knew that some personal decisions had to be made and faced quickly if this own attitude was not to go by default. But how could he explain or justify what he did not understand himself? 

At face value it seems to say that he understands or knows what Demelza is feeling and that he had to make up is mind if he loved Elizabeth or Demelza. However, if you look at it in the contents of what he says later;  `You still think I've been at Trenwith this weekend. I haven't. I never had an intention of going.  He never had an intention of going to Elizabeth and then he says: `It is quite possible that Elizabeth's marriage to George will still take place.' It was possible that Elizabeth and George would marry because he had no intentions of trying to stop it again. Given those two statements to me it seems to state that he knew that it was Demelza he loved and that his love for her was ordinary, everyday and real.



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 147
Date: Nov 20 3:04 AM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Stella Poldark wrote:

Fijane - I agree with all you say and would just add that it is also a shared experience with Demelza of seeing the poor get sufficient pilchards to see them through Winter. I think he realises that he and Demelza have a lot in common and both get joy from simple things. Can anyone imagine Elizabeth being excited at the idea of going out in a small boat to see the miners gathering food to get them through Winter?  

 


Yes! I hadn't seen that until you pointed it out. It was the moment Ross realised that, purely by accident, he had chosen exactly the right mate for himself.

I wonder if he had second thoughts in the few weeks after the wedding? I imagine his self-criticism was high at that point, analysing just why he thought he needed to marry Demelza, and possibly thinking that he had made a big mistake. Maybe that moment walking back from the pilchards was a "hey, I did the right thing after all" moment.



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 211
Date: Nov 19 3:06 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Fijane wrote:

This is the one that always gets me:

"He found, quite to his surprise, that he was happy. Not merely happy in Demelzas happiness but in himself. He couldnt think why. The condition just existed within him."

Two reasons:

Firstly, I find this happens to me - I will suddenly become aware that I am totally happy. I possibly wasn't a few minutes ago, and I might not be in ten minutes time, but right now, happiness exists.

And secondly, this is the moment Ross recognises his love for Demelza, that it is her (skipping beside him) and their life together that brings happiness and contentment. And it is a moment of equality, no master-servant, man-woman, adult-child thing, just me-and-you together.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fijane - I agree with all you say and would just add that it is also a shared experience with Demelza of seeing the poor get sufficient pilchards to see them through Winter. I think he realises that he and Demelza have a lot in common and both get joy from simple things. Can anyone imagine Elizabeth being excited at the idea of going out in a small boat to see the miners gathering food to get them through Winter?  

 


-- Edited by Fijane on Saturday 19th of November 2016 12:22:27 AM


 



__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 211
Date: Nov 19 2:00 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

My sentence is from Warleggan - near the end of the book at the end of Chapter 6 after 

"If the history of the last ten years had been the tragedy of a woman unable to make up her mind, the last six months was the history of a man in a similar case."

"For a long time he had been quite unsure of his own feelings; then they had crystallised; and from that moment a private meeting was impossible.

Now it was too late."

My reason is that I cannot decide its likely meaning. Does it mean that Ross had finally realised it was Demelza he loved or Elizabeth? Why from that moment was a private meeting impossible? Did Ross feel he could not tell Elizabeth face to face that he loved Demelza? Or did he think he could not resist Elizabeth if he met her again? Or did he, as we all must hope, realise that his real and abiding love was forDemelza as he tells her later in the book? WG loves to leaves us uncertain. I would love to hear how others interpret its meaning. 

Stella



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Saturday 19th of November 2016 02:43:28 PM

__________________


Student

Status: Offline
Posts: 147
Date: Nov 19 12:21 AM, 2016
Permalink  
 

This is the one that always gets me:

"He found, quite to his surprise, that he was happy. Not merely happy in Demelzas happiness but in himself. He couldnt think why. The condition just existed within him."

Two reasons:

Firstly, I find this happens to me - I will suddenly become aware that I am totally happy. I possibly wasn't a few minutes ago, and I might not be in ten minutes time, but right now, happiness exists.

And secondly, this is the moment Ross recognises his love for Demelza, that it is her (skipping beside him) and their life together that brings happiness and contentment. And it is a moment of equality, no master-servant, man-woman, adult-child thing, just me-and-you together.

I will think of more later.

Just realised you said "a sentence". So, just reduce the quote to "He found, quite to his surprise, that he was happy."



-- Edited by Fijane on Saturday 19th of November 2016 12:22:27 AM

__________________


Honorary Life Member. Forum Moderator

Status: Offline
Posts: 662
Date: Nov 18 7:34 PM, 2016
Permalink  
 

Now there is a lull after the conclusion of series 2, we have a chance to dip in the books at leisure.

What joy...

 

What is your favourite sentence?  It can be from any of the books and any of the characters.

We could post the sentence without a reference, and see how quickly it is recognised.  Or you can tell us why you like it above all the other thousands.  Perhaps we should try to keep to just the one or at most two sentences.

 

I await replies

Mrs G



__________________
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.