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Post Info TOPIC: Final Episode - series 2


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Date: Jan 13 7:12 AM, 2017
RE: Final Episode - series 2
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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Dave,

You really need to read the book, Warleggan.  That is where you will find the real ending. 

It may surprise you, but I guarantee you will get a lump in your throat.  Read Jeremy first though, if you have still only read the first two.  A wonderful series awaits you, good winter reading.

Enjoy...

Mrs G


 

Good advice.  Stick with the novel.  Not only did this 2016 version screwed up the story, the 1975 version was simply a travesty.  Apparently, the BBC always seemed to screw up the adaptation of "Warleggan".



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Date: Jan 3 1:52 AM, 2017
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Fijane wrote:

Dark mare, I find it interesting that you describe the lines about "the idealised love" as clunky. For me, they are the whole crux of the reconciliation, and if you will allow me to be mushy, they are the lines that give me goosebumps. If DH had left them out, it would have been the end for me. They are the only lines that could have convinced Demelza that the incident had changed Ross's view of Elizabeth and the comparison betweent the two women.

My only gripe was that she changed "ordinary" to "imperfect" ("the level of an ordinary one"). I like WG's words better.

I agree about the word "bribe" being wrong. Funny how a single word can change the tone of a scene.


 My problem isn't with the premise of "the idealized love" speech; I just don't think the words fit together that well in "Warleggan" and Debbie Horsfield didn't stray very far from the original. 

I don't like "imperfect" either, but fairness to Horsfield, she was boxed into a corner in writing the scene because she needed "real" to be the last word. It was the word that was going to melt Demelza's heart. She gave Demelza the line "And I am dull, imperfect and ordinary" and had Ross work backwards in analyzing her description. He dismissed "ordinary" as untrue -- as he and other members of the gentry Demelza knows always do when she describes herself that way. "Imperfect" was the right word because it is the opposite of what Ross said his love for Elizabeth had been ("Perfect ... Untouchable.") and because it, combined with the next word in the final line, "human," added up to the magic word, "real".

As for "bribe," it isn't the word that changes the tone of the scene as much as the mouth the word is coming out of. When the aspiring briber (Ross in "Warleggan") says it, it sounds tongue-in-cheek, but when the target of the attempted bribery (Demelza in Episode 10) says it, it sounds like an insult. 

 



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Date: Dec 28 6:57 PM, 2016
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Dave,

You really need to read the book, Warleggan.  That is where you will find the real ending. 

It may surprise you, but I guarantee you will get a lump in your throat.  Read Jeremy first though, if you have still only read the first two.  A wonderful series awaits you, good winter reading.

Enjoy...

Mrs G



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Date: Dec 28 6:45 PM, 2016
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Dark mare, I find it interesting that you describe the lines about "the idealised love" as clunky. For me, they are the whole crux of the reconciliation, and if you will allow me to be mushy, they are the lines that give me goosebumps. If DH had left them out, it would have been the end for me. They are the only lines that could have convinced Demelza that the incident had changed Ross's view of Elizabeth and the comparison betweent the two women.

My only gripe was that she changed "ordinary" to "imperfect" ("the level of an ordinary one"). I like WG's words better.

I agree about the word "bribe" being wrong. Funny how a single word can change the tone of a scene.



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Date: Dec 27 3:01 PM, 2016
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Dave wrote:

I was disappointed in the ending Final Episode -series 2. Then I found this clip on Youtube and the ending then makes more sense (somewhat). Why did they delete it, I have no idea maybe the sound which I think is poor was too bad. Things I liked was when Ross comes in saying he has something for Demelza , she answers sarcastically " a bribe" . Then when she sees it is not just another trinket but The Broach well I think her heart thawed just a little. Then I liked it when RD says he searched and didn't give up, a metaphor about his effort to save his marriage, he won't give it up. When Demelza asks will he still go to war, Ross says not now he has his own fight here ( to save his marriage). This was a very moving scene for me. 

The last scene where he is walking up to Demelza at the cliffs, hmmm puzzles me. Was Demelza there all by herself and he comes upon her and other things maybe because there was no dialogue bothers me.  Well I am only into the first two books , I read them twice and am ready to get into the third and am anxious to read about this event to see how WG handles it. 

 

 

 


Dave,

I agree with you that the deleted ending is better, but there is a problem with it: It used the wrong brooch. (The brooch that was sold to raise money for the interest payment on the £1,000 loan in Series 2 resembled the brooch described in "Demelza"  -- a gold brooch with a ruby set in it -- but the brooch used in Series 1, a yellow stone set in gold on a yellow ribbon, is the one you saw in the alternative ending for Episode 10 of Series 2.)  Either they would have to reshoot about two seconds of the market scene, replacing the blue jewelry case for the gold brooch or they had to reshoot the alternative ending, replacing the blue jewelry case with the gold brooch. I vote for the former because it might have been possible to do it with computers -- there are only three shots: the brooch in Aidan Turner's hand, the brooch being passed from Aidan Turner's hand to the jeweler's hands and the jeweler's hands holding the brooch -- and because the yellow brooch is prettier and you get the suspense of Demelza opening the jewelry case and being surprised to see something she'd given up ever seeing again. If he just handed her the gold brooch, the suspense would be lost.

Another thing about the scene is he called the brooch a token of his love and devotion. Ross had just used "devotion" to justify his night with Elizabeth so it would have stung to hear that word again. (I was so disappointed in Debbie Horsfield that she didn't let Demelza take Ross down a peg by having her answer his claim that his night with Elizabeth was "the result of a devotion that lasted on my part for 10 years" with something like, "Devotion? What an elegant word to wrap around what was really just 10 years of coveting your neighbor's wife, a mortal sin," before he got the chance to dismiss her "turn" with McNeil. It would have been such fun to watch Ross try to decide which was more important to him, correcting Demelza on how much of that 10 years Elizabeth was actually his neighbor's wife or expressing his contempt for her decision to have a "turn" with McNeil.)  Anyway, I think Winston Graham was right to call the brooch a long overdue repayment of a debt. In this case it would be the long-overdue repayment of a loan because he got the same brooch back rather than a replacement for it. (I think that was a better choice. The act of searching for it and refusing to give up until he got it back was more meaningful than by chance discovering a similar brooch in a shop and buying it.)

i suspect the decision to replace this scene with the one that aired also involved the need to account for what Demelza had told  Elizabeth earlier that day. She had to make some attempt to leave him. And maybe Debbie Horsfield just wanted to use that  clunky speech from "Warleggan" about comparing an idealized love with one that must endure the pressures of real life, and she couldn't make it fit into the other ending. Whatever. I still like the rejected scene better, but Demelza's use of the word "bribe" is a failed attempt to connect to something Ross said in "Warleggan" about the replacement brooch and a garnet necklace he bought in the same shop. He tells her if she suspects he is trying to buy his way back into her heart, she is right. (On another trip to London in a later book, he buys a cameo as another peace offering and then tells her he isn't going to give it to her until the next day because he doesn't want her to think it is another attempted bribe, [which it is].)



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Date: Dec 27 1:04 AM, 2016
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I think what you are feeling, Dave, is what a few others have mentioned further down the thread, and that is that they have omitted most of the small steps towards reconciliation. The scene with the brooch is one of the most important of those. And because they have omitted the small steps, the "big" reconciliation at the end did not make a lot of sense. Demelza seemed to go from utter rage and unforgiveness to "everything is OK" because of one little speech by Ross.

The small steps were needed to show the gradual softening of Demelza's heart (and Ross's true penitence) and the producers just made a hash of it all.



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Date: Dec 24 1:58 PM, 2016
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I was disappointed in the ending Final Episode -series 2. Then I found this clip on Youtube and the ending then makes more sense (somewhat). Why did they delete it, I have no idea maybe the sound which I think is poor was too bad. Things I liked was when Ross comes in saying he has something for Demelza , she answers sarcastically " a bribe" . Then when she sees it is not just another trinket but The Broach well I think her heart thawed just a little. Then I liked it when RD says he searched and didn't give up, a metaphor about his effort to save his marriage, he won't give it up. When Demelza asks will he still go to war, Ross says not now he has his own fight here ( to save his marriage). This was a very moving scene for me. 

The last scene where he is walking up to Demelza at the cliffs, hmmm puzzles me. Was Demelza there all by herself and he comes upon her and other things maybe because there was no dialogue bothers me.  Well I am only into the first two books , I read them twice and am ready to get into the third and am anxious to read about this event to see how WG handles it. 

 

 

 



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Date: Dec 12 10:58 PM, 2016
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Stella Poldark wrote:
 

Fijane wrote:

 

Yes, I remember that sobbing but, if I remember correctly, again there were no actual tears.  Elinor is very good at conveying distress with the facial expressions, but what I was hoping for (if that is the right term - maybe I mean what was needed...) was a real "ugly" cry. Otherwise, during the infidelity episodes all we got was anger, and I couldn't sense any of the actual devastation that is portrayed so beautifully in the book.

I may be wrong though - I need to go back and re-watch.


 Fijame - I agree with you about Demelza's inability to express real distress in series 2. It is all anger and rage and I guess it's down to the scripts again. Anger can be a wonderful defence against feeling real pain. The books are different. We know Demelza was grief stricken about Ross' infidelity. It didn't transfer to the screen so you are right about this. I would like to think this is not a weakness in Demelza's acting ability but the scripts and the direction. There were times during series 2 when I felt the acting quality was poor because the scripts were inappropriate. Both Ross and Demelza seemed to have difficulty speaking certain lines because they just didn't fit. I hope this makes sense.

Stella


 Thanks. I think I will adopt your view. I would rather give Elinor the benefit of the doubt, and blame the scripts.



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Date: Dec 12 3:05 AM, 2016
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LJones41 wrote:

 

She established herself as a fully paid up member of Team George.

 

Why wouldn't she?  Elizabeth is now a member of the Warleggan family.



-- Edited by LJones41 on Sunday 11th of December 2016 10:21:15 PM


 And then George sabotages it by choosing that night to tell her he wants to ship Geoffrey Charles off to Harrow. 



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I've never heard of a movie or television adaptation that was completely accurate with any novel or play.  Or even history.

 

 

She established herself as a fully paid up member of Team George.

 

Why wouldn't she?  Elizabeth is now a member of the Warleggan family.



-- Edited by LJones41 on Sunday 11th of December 2016 10:21:15 PM

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Hi, my uni got me a bit busy. blankstare I've watched the season finale, and really didn't like the end at all.nohmmblankstare The whole series just wasn't so accurate for me, and I didn't think the producers and script writer (DH) did a good job! First: they didn't include some vital caracters, Second: Demelza becomes the nurse of all and the messanger of other people. 100% inaccurate to the books! nonono I'll always stick to the books! 



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Fijane wrote:

 

Yes, I remember that sobbing but, if I remember correctly, again there were no actual tears.  Elinor is very good at conveying distress with the facial expressions, but what I was hoping for (if that is the right term - maybe I mean what was needed...) was a real "ugly" cry. Otherwise, during the infidelity episodes all we got was anger, and I couldn't sense any of the actual devastation that is portrayed so beautifully in the book.

I may be wrong though - I need to go back and re-watch.


 Fijame - I agree with you about Demelza's inability to express real distress in series 2. It is all anger and rage and I guess it's down to the scripts again. Anger can be a wonderful defence against feeling real pain. The books are different. We know Demelza was grief stricken about Ross' infidelity. It didn't transfer to the screen so you are right about this. I would like to think this is not a weakness in Demelza's acting ability but the scripts and the direction. There were times during series 2 when I felt the acting quality was poor because the scripts were inappropriate. Both Ross and Demelza seemed to have difficulty speaking certain lines because they just didn't fit. I hope this makes sense.

Stella



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Stella Poldark wrote:
Fijane wrote:

As I have said elsewhere, I think these last two episodes would have been greatly enhanced if they could have shown Demelza with one or two significant emotional breakdowns. I'm beginning to think that Elinor (as an actress) may be unable to show grief. In the "apology" scene, she managed to bring some moisture to her eye, but that is all we have seen. Even when Julia died, her grief was all contorted facial expressions, but no actual tears, or red or streaming nose. If they could have just shown some of her heartbreak, it might have been easier to cope with the unreasonable anger. As it was, she looked one-dimensional, as if anger was the only emotion she was feeling. Watching the actress starring in Jamaica Inn straight afterwards really highlighted what could have been done. The Demelza they portrayed would not have been out of place throwing Ross's clothing from an apartment block window.

So, time to settled down to Christmas, and try to work up enthusiasm for Series 3.

 


 I'm wondering if you watched a different series 1 from me, Fijane. 

Demelza was consumed with grief when Ross told her Julia had died and sobbed. Then in episode one of series 2 she puts a rose on Julia's bed before leaving for Bodmin. She does talk of having another child but I recall that is after she knows she is pregnant. 

Stella


Yes, I remember that sobbing but, if I remember correctly, again there were no actual tears.  Elinor is very good at conveying distress with the facial expressions, but what I was hoping for (if that is the right term - maybe I mean what was needed...) was a real "ugly" cry. Otherwise, during the infidelity episodes all we got was anger, and I couldn't sense any of the actual devastation that is portrayed so beautifully in the book.

I may be wrong though - I need to go back and re-watch.



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Fijane wrote:

I also thought that the scene where Ross is called to Trenwith to account for Geoffrey Charles' shares was well done, especially Elizabeth avoiding him. Of course, it was almost exact to the book, so of course it would be better. 

 

I liked the choreography of Elizabeth's eavesdropping, moving from one hiding spot to the next so she won't miss a word.  

The scene in which George is sponging off his cuts from the fight is nicely done, especially when Elizabeth takes the washcloth from him and dabs away the blood. George, of course, has to exaggerate his success with the old "you shoulda seen the other guy" refrain. Note to George: When you have to call in reinforcements because your opponent has your head six inches from the fire, it is time to give up on the boxing training and find a new sport. Jousting, perhaps?

The aftermath of the mob scene, when George tells Elizabeth they were never in any danger and suggests Ross engineered the whole thing! was nicely done too. Elizabeth was there and saw everything that happened so she knows that isn't true, but she doesn't let on. She established herself as a fully paid up member of Team George. 

 



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Fijane wrote:

As I have said elsewhere, I think these last two episodes would have been greatly enhanced if they could have shown Demelza with one or two significant emotional breakdowns. I'm beginning to think that Elinor (as an actress) may be unable to show grief. In the "apology" scene, she managed to bring some moisture to her eye, but that is all we have seen. Even when Julia died, her grief was all contorted facial expressions, but no actual tears, or red or streaming nose. If they could have just shown some of her heartbreak, it might have been easier to cope with the unreasonable anger. As it was, she looked one-dimensional, as if anger was the only emotion she was feeling. Watching the actress starring in Jamaica Inn straight afterwards really highlighted what could have been done. The Demelza they portrayed would not have been out of place throwing Ross's clothing from an apartment block window.

So, time to settled down to Christmas, and try to work up enthusiasm for Series 3.

 


 I'm wondering if you watched a different series 1 from me, Fijane. 

Demelza was consumed with grief when Ross told her Julia had died and sobbed. Then in episode one of series 2 she puts a rose on Julia's bed before leaving for Bodmin. She does talk of having another child but I recall that is after she knows she is pregnant. 

Stella



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Australia has finally finished Series 2 of Poldark, and I agree with nearly everything said here.

The final episode was... how to put it... disappointing/not good/ weird?  Which is all the worse for the fact that the last episode of any series should make the viewer feel uplifted.

On the positive side, the worst of Demelza's snarky comments had been covered in the trailer and clips, so I was glad to see that there was nothing worse. Of course, they were terrible anyway. Again Dwight and Caroline's story was the most faithful (despite the implication that they spent the night together - what the...?) and I loved the use of authentic dialogue when Ross was lecturing them that Demelza says two people who love each other must have very good reasons not to follow their happiness. Non-book readers may not have realised that Ross is sort of speaking about his own relationship, as it was a bit understated.

I also thought that the scenes where Ross is called to Trenwith to account for Geoffrey Charles' shares was well done, especially Elizabeth avoiding him. Of course, it was almost exact to the book, so of course it would be better. And all scenes with Verity are lovely.

But, as you have all acknowledged, the bad far outweighs the good in this episode. IMO, it is the worst of all the episodes so far. Demelza is generally horrible, and it is very hard to hold onto how much I loved her previously. Much has been made of Ross's need to ask forgiveness, but after watching this, I was starting to think that it was becoming hard for Ross to forgive her. She really was truly vile to him, and some of the things said would be hard to forget. Some of the most laughable lines in this episode are hers - "what is the point of this marriage", "such a great man" - so corny, and they just belong on Neighbours, along with "it was just one night". It is awful to see WG's characters spouting such rubbish.

And the storyline of this episode is a shambles. The unnecessary Army scenes, the miners threatening Trenwith and then meekly walking away, Demelza jumping the fence to surprise Elizabeth, purely to tell her she can have Ross (how ridiculous in the 1700's considering they were both married), Demelza packing to leave immediately after Ross has made a hugely romantic gesture and threatening to go to her father of all people, the man who had abused her as a child. What a total mess.

There, I feel better having had my rant.

As I have said elsewhere, I think these last two episodes would have been greatly enhanced if they could have shown Demelza with one or two significant emotional breakdowns. I'm beginning to think that Elinor (as an actress) may be unable to show grief. In the "apology" scene, she managed to bring some moisture to her eye, but that is all we have seen. Even when Julia died, her grief was all contorted facial expressions, but no actual tears, or red or streaming nose. If they could have just shown some of her heartbreak, it might have been easier to cope with the unreasonable anger. As it was, she looked one-dimensional, as if anger was the only emotion she was feeling. Watching the actress starring in Jamaica Inn straight afterwards really highlighted what could have been done. The Demelza they portrayed would not have been out of place throwing Ross's clothing from an apartment block window.

So, time to settled down to Christmas, and try to work up enthusiasm for Series 3.

 



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LJones41 wrote:

 When I read Warleggan that sequence from when Ross returns from Trenwith to the end with the famous fermentation is actually the crux of the whole first four books: his realisation that Elizabeth is not the idol he thought and Demelza is so much better than her on all levels.

 

 

Every time I read comments like the above, I cannot help but sigh.  Honestly.  Demelza isn't better than Elizabeth on all levels . . . not in my eyes.  Nor is Elizabeth better.  They are just two different women.  Why is it so hard for fandom to consider this?  Demelza "being better than Elizabeth" should not be the main reason for Ross to be faithful to his wife.  He should be faithful, because he is married to her.  He made his choice and he should stick to it.



-- Edited by LJones41 on Tuesday 29th of November 2016 07:35:34 PM


 Not intrinsically better, just a better personality match. But maybe people prefer Demelza because they root for the underdog  -- or because they've read the missing Chapter Six. (It appeared in only the first edition of "Demelza," and it shows Elizabeth to be flaky and even kind of mean. If you would like to read it, you can find it on this site. Search "TOPIC: Demelza 1st edition: The missing Chapter 6" and scroll down to the second Ross Poldark entry. The pages from the book are Xeroxed there. The first section is about Mark and Keren, and the second is about Elizabeth.) 

Of course Ross should have honored his wedding vow, and his actions were indefensible. But they weren't unpredicted. Demelza had been fearing them -- and worse -- for months. She didn't believe she could hold Ross if Elizabeth was free because he had never been given a choice between Elizabeth and her before. When he chose her the first time, it was a choice of her or no one. And maybe she felt she had put a thumb on the scale that time. (She didn't realize it at the time. She never expected him to ask her to marry him.)



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Dark Mare - I think you are trying to understand the incomprehensible.  The changes made don't make sense; it hurts my brain to try!

Mrs. Gimlett - Yes, yes and yes.  The actors are good, but DH has completely changed the story.  What's even more infuriating is that she sometimes uses the same events, but to a different end purpose (for example, Demelza's telling Ross about her "adventure" at Werry House).  Or DH uses the same dialogue, but - again - to different effect. I shudder to think how she may abuse the upcoming events (Valentine & Hugh Armitage).  I don't think I can stand to watch it. I'm going back to the books.



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 When I read Warleggan that sequence from when Ross returns from Trenwith to the end with the famous fermentation is actually the crux of the whole first four books: his realisation that Elizabeth is not the idol he thought and Demelza is so much better than her on all levels.

 

 

Every time I read comments like the above, I cannot help but sigh.  Honestly.  Demelza isn't better than Elizabeth on all levels . . . not in my eyes.  Nor is Elizabeth better.  They are just two different women.  Why is it so hard for fandom to consider this?  Demelza "being better than Elizabeth" should not be the main reason for Ross to be faithful to his wife.  He should be faithful, because he is married to her.  He made his choice and he should stick to it.



-- Edited by LJones41 on Tuesday 29th of November 2016 07:35:34 PM

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So far as I am concerned most of series two was a huge disappointment.  I was deluded into thinking that DH and Co were going to produce drama which was as close as possible to the books and instead it turned into a mish mash of events hardly recognisable as the story we all love. 

It is not the fault of the actors, most of whom are excellent - I particularly like Dwight Enys and Caroline is coming along nicely.  Ross and Demelza were both very good in series 1, but their personality transplants just spoilt it all for me.

The final episode didn't make any sense.  At no time does Ross seriously consider re-joining his regiment in the books, so why add it in?  And Demelza uttering those quite nasty comments - again something she would never have done. In trying to 'sex it up', all the gentleness and subtlety has been abandoned.

I'm not at all sure I shall be tuning in for the next series.

Thank goodness we have 12 wonderful books we can lose ourselves in.



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There is one thing about this episode that I can't figure out: Why did Demelza decide to leave Ross when she returned from Verity's?

She and Ross had the fight over Demelza's visit from McNeill at Werry House and then Demelza asked what was the point of the marriage and Ross agreed. He was already making preparations to rejoin his regiment -- that's how he found out Caroline was his mysterious benefactor -- but he had not told Demelza he was leaving. (I guess he expected her to take his statement that he was wondering whether he should go back into the army now that Dwight had joined the navy as a definite plan -- especially after she "gave her consent" by mocking him ["Go to war, Ross. Play soldiers. Or stay at home and save all of Cornwall. What it is to be married to such a great man."].)

After Demelza asked what the point of the marriage was, she rounded up Jud and Jeremy and headed to Verity's house to be with her when the baby arrived. (Apparently Verity's house must have moved from Truro [remember, the series moved Andrew's base to Truro from Falmouth] to somewhere quite distant because they left Nampara after dark and arrived at Verity's in daylight. [More sloppiness on the part of the director or the script. Truro is a two- or three-hour ride from Nampara, right?])

Meanwhile, Ross dug out his uniform and, after trying it on in all its dusty or sun-bleach glory, packed for London and then Plymouth. His first stop was London, where he called on Caroline to thank her for the loan and let her know Dwight had joined the navy and her beloved Uncle Ray would soon have to struggle along without Dwight monitoring his recently diagnosed diabetes. Enlisting her to return to Cornwall to care for her uncle, the two set off to Plymouth to find Dwight and give Caroline a chance to say goodbye while Ross checked in with his regiment. Ross presented himself and then decided he'd rather not re-enlist after all.

Verity tries to get Demelza to tell her what her fight with Ross is about. How she could not have figured it out is beyond me. The last time she saw Demelza, Demelza was afraid she was losing Ross to Elizabeth. The last time she saw Elizabeth, Elizabeth fainted at the sight of her. Verity had been living with Elizabeth when she was pregnant with Geoffrey Charles and fainting often. Elizabeth was now married to George and living at Trenwith. C'mon, Verity, just ask Demelza: "Is this all about Elizabeth? Is she pregnant with Ross' child? Is that why she married George so hastily?" A little Penvenen tactlessness would have come in handy at this juncture. Anyway, Verity told Demelza she must follow her heart no matter how little sense its dictates make.

Now my questions:

1. What persuaded Demelza she should leave Ross?

2. Was she acting on Verity's advice to follow her heart? Why would her heart tell her to leave Ross?

3. Or was she answering the question -- "What is the point of this marriage?" -- she had asked Ross at the end of their  argument? (I would have hoped the answer "the little boy in the next room is the point of this marriage" would have occurred to at least one of them, but it didn't.)

4. And why did Demelza visit Elizabeth to tell her she was leaving Ross -- and tell her he was all hers? To taunt her? To lay a guilt trip on her?

On a circuitously related topic, did anyone else wish Demelza had a bit of Caroline's taste for mischief when George was telling her how completely he, Ross' enemy, was in possession of the field? How delicious it would have been if when George told her that a Warleggan heir was due in March, she had turned to Elizabeth and said, "I owe you an apology, Elizabeth. I have always considered you a coward, but clearly, you aren't just courageous, you are downright bold. To pass Ross' child off as George's takes a rare courage and confidence. I wish I were wearing a hat so I could take it off to you. Well, gotta go before the rioters arrive. Do lock yourself in the scullery, George, so they won't lynch you. That baby is going to need a father." 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Tuesday 29th of November 2016 05:55:11 PM

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I too found the final episode a huge disappointment, almost an insult. After the the early promise of the first one or two  episodes, subsequent ones grew steadily worse. Had I not read the books, I wouldn't give rat's hair for any these people, except perhaps for Dwight and Caroline. DH turned them into unsympathetic caricatures of themselves. DH's Demelza could have given George W. lessons on how to successfully beat Ross down.  A pity DH didn't follow her Series 1 formula, which motivated many people to read the books. To show my indignation I'll probably delete all my saved episodes, well maybe not the one with the steamy bath tub scene. 

 

 

 



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Dark Mare & Stella - I think we agree that the books were dramatic enough and had DH stuck with them, the TV series could have been very satisfying indeed.  As it is, I can't bear to watch it.  I turned it on last night (I'm in the U.S.) and had to turn the channel. It's not my story; heck, it's not even WG's story.



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SusanneMcCarthy wrote:

 I see they discarded a lovely scene where he gives her the jewel. It's a shame, that could have been such a lovely scene. 


 Yes, and it would have worked so well if the costume department hadn't been asleep at the switch when it was assembling props for the market scene that had Ross and Demelza selling "everything we own" to raise the £400 to pay the interest on the promissory note. Instead of the brooch/pendant used in the series, they had Ross sell a brooch similar to the one in the books -- and the director or the script called attention to it by having Demelza turn away about to cry just as Ross handed it to the merchant. 

Demelza's subsequent questions in the scene had a checklist quality to them -- not very Demelzalike -- but the scene definitely could have worked as the reconciliation scene. Ross established that he was determined to win her back not only with the gift of the brooch and his explanation of how he found it but also his reason for not going to war. I certainly like it better than the one that was chosen. Ross comes of as warmer and less of a dolt here than he does in the other scene. Though I do have to wonder when Ross saw Elizabeth and experienced the feeling that she seemed "a stranger, an enemy even." She was inside Trenwith during the mob scene; he was sitting on Darkie outside. Could he even see her watching through a window? Did they make eye contact? Did I miss it? 

 

 



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SusanneMcCarthy wrote:

I agree with this. Until this point I'd had only a few minor niggles, but a lot of episode 10 was... not good. It seemed more concerned with presenting set pieces which disrupted the narrative. Even then, they could have been done a lot better. Some of these are small, and would have been so easy to get right: (a) When Ross goes to meet Dwight in Plymouth, it could so easily have been by arrangement, as in the books, and would have been much better had they met in a private room (which they would have done) Could still have had the panto line "she's behind you." (b) It was just silly having Ross change his mind at the very last minute about "enlisting" (ooops, officers didn't enlist.) How would he explain that to his commanding officer? Could still have him going along to sign on, but changing his mind outside the room.    

But the worst aspect was losing the lovely slow reconciliation. From cheering Demelza in Episode 9 I was beginning to get a bit fed up with her carping in Episode 10. When Ross came home with blood on his face, there's that lovely moment of the first thaw where Ross says, "You do still care for me." Instead we got her sarky comment about playing soldiers, "What it is to be married to such a great man." 

Then that final bit with the miners going to Trenwith - OK, I could go with that. And that bit where he just simply says "No" to George, and turns to hold out his hand to Demelza, and they ride off together - I thought that was actually great. But then when they got home and she was still set on going to her father's - and that clunky speech about being "steadfast and true" - just spoiled it completely. I see they discarded a lovely scene where he gives her the jewel. It's a shame, that could have been such a lovely scene. 


 Susanne - You make some good points. Changes were made it seems just for the sake of making changes. As to the reconciliation it seemed to be one step forward, three steps back. Like you, I lost sympathy/empathy with Demelza who appeared to be doing all she could to destroy any love that was left between them. How different was the book. The scene where Demelza went to Trenwith was a complete time waster and could have been used to begin their real, slow reconciliation as in the book. The gift of the brooch was in the script but taken out by someone who thought he/she knew better. Let us be glad we have the books to go back to and enjoy no matter what horrors Mammoth decide to cook up.

Stella



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I agree with this. Until this point I'd had only a few minor niggles, but a lot of episode 10 was... not good. It seemed more concerned with presenting set pieces which disrupted the narrative. Even then, they could have been done a lot better. Some of these are small, and would have been so easy to get right: (a) When Ross goes to meet Dwight in Plymouth, it could so easily have been by arrangement, as in the books, and would have been much better had they met in a private room (which they would have done) Could still have had the panto line "she's behind you." (b) It was just silly having Ross change his mind at the very last minute about "enlisting" (ooops, officers didn't enlist.) How would he explain that to his commanding officer? Could still have him going along to sign on, but changing his mind outside the room.    

But the worst aspect was losing the lovely slow reconciliation. From cheering Demelza in Episode 9 I was beginning to get a bit fed up with her carping in Episode 10. When Ross came home with blood on his face, there's that lovely moment of the first thaw where Ross says, "You do still care for me." Instead we got her sarky comment about playing soldiers, "What it is to be married to such a great man." 

Then that final bit with the miners going to Trenwith - OK, I could go with that. And that bit where he just simply says "No" to George, and turns to hold out his hand to Demelza, and they ride off together - I thought that was actually great. But then when they got home and she was still set on going to her father's - and that clunky speech about being "steadfast and true" - just spoiled it completely. I see they discarded a lovely scene where he gives her the jewel. It's a shame, that could have been such a lovely scene. 



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Hollyhock wrote:

Yes, even Garrick's character was misrepresented. Watching the episode, I was reminded of Demelza's battle of wills with Garrick in Book 1. She could not get him to obey her commands to return home when he persisted in following Ross and her to the Trenwith Christmas get-together. So I agree, even if Demelza had tried to sic Garrick on anyone, he probably would have slobbered all over them in friendly play or ran off instead to chase rabbits. (Cute anecdote about your Dad's dog.) 

 

I especially love this scene from "Jeremy Poldark" (Like everyone who has ever lived with and/or loved a big, uncontrollably friendly dog, I've lived it. And yes, the giver of muddy paw prints was, of course, my father's dog, Rhett.):

The awkward silence was broken by Garrick, who suddenly appeared and came bounding across the yard like a monstrous French poodle, wagging his stump and showing a lolling red tongue. As usual he had no respect for the decencies; Dwight had to duck out of the way, and Ross came off with a couple of muddy paw marks on the front of his shirt. 

"The trouble with Demelza, Ross said, brushing himself, is that she adopts strange animals and then doesnt sufficiently tame them."


-- Edited by Dark Mare on Saturday 19th of November 2016 12:07:52 AM

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Dark Mare wrote:

I thought that was a rather surprising liberty with the source material. Garrick is written as a big, friendly dog who treats commands as suggestions that he may or may not follow. 

------------------------

Yes, even Garrick's character was misrepresented. Watching the episode, I was reminded of Demelza's battle of wills with Garrick in Book 1. She could not get him to obey her commands to return home when he persisted in following Ross and her to the Trenwith Christmas get-together. So I agree, even if Demelza had tried to sic Garrick on anyone, he probably would have slobbered all over them in friendly play or ran off instead to chase rabbits. (Cute anecdote about your Dad's dog.) 

 



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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Examples, please.


 

I will dig up my copy and find the passage in the novel.



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Hollyhock wrote:

... Among everything else, it was disconcerting to see Demelza siccing Garrick on the poor tub carriers who came to collect goods from the hidden cache. Not even poor Garrick escapes DH's heavy-handed storyline revisions. ...

 


I thought that was a rather surprising liberty with the source material. Garrick is written as a big, friendly dog who treats commands as suggestions that he may or may not follow. (He reminds me of Rhett, my father's boxer/Great Dane cross -- when somebody gave Dad a copy of Barbara Woodhouse's "No Bad Dogs" as a gift/hint, Rhett ripped up the dust jacket at his first opportunity; oddly, it was the only book he ever touched.) I imagine WG's Garrick's response to "sic 'em" would be to jump up on the tub carriers and lick their faces.

I also found it surprising that Garrick allowed Demelza to leave him on the beach when she went fishing and that he was nowhere to be seen by the time Ross reached the beach after she had started to go into labor. Fictional canine protector etiquette calls for him to run to the house, barking incessantly and pull on the sleeve of every human he encounters until he gets someone to follow him to his imperiled owner. 



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Examples, please.



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In DH's hands, Demelza in particular translates as a shrewish, nagging woman who runs roughshod over house and even village.

 

To be fair, the first novel, "Ross Poldark", made it clear that Demelza's temper could be intense and ugly.

 



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Although I'm only up to E7, I think the greatest disservice with S2 is to fans who have not read the novels and thus will have a false perspective of WG's richly drawn characters and finely etched storylines. In DH's hands, Demelza in particular translates as a shrewish, nagging woman who runs roughshod over house and even village. Among everything else, it was disconcerting to see Demelza siccing Garrick on the poor tub carriers who came to collect goods from the hidden cache. Not even poor Garrick escapes DH's heavy-handed storyline revisions. Overall, I think Dwight and Carolyn got the best of the deal.

 

 



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JanetMaison wrote:
I'm sorry to go on and on.  I am grateful that this website exists and that I know others love the books as I do. I would love to hear how other readers are dealing with this.  Forget about the TV series? Go back to the books? Advice please!

Nothing ever can or will ever come close to one's own imagination, it's much too individual and personal like a virtual reality helmet.

WG with Poldark is much like the Pied Piper of Hamelin as having read nearly all of his other pretty good non Poldark books, by comparison somehow he's a completely different person altogether amazingly able to transport you into every vivid room or scene of Poldark each time you pick up a book and read it. I've never read another author like him and never will. Try reading then comparing one or two of his other similar period books like "The Forgotten Story" or "The Grove of Eagles" and you might see what I mean.

The Poldark books are another Aladdin world of riches altogether, try not to confuse it with our daily mundane one....aww



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JanetMaison wrote:

One of my very favorite parts of the whole Poldark saga is May 10th till Christmas, 1793. Ross and Demelza's growth and healing is so realistic, subtle and satisfying: Werry House, MacNeil, R&D's first discussion about the "event" (when he returns from Looe), Ross asking Demelza to stay, the gradual thaw, good news about the mine, "I believe you still care for me," trip to Truro, Demelza's feeling warmth in her heart, and Christmas Eve, Ross explaining that his true love is Demelza, the fight and the apology. That is what finally gets through to Demelza; Ross knows that he hurt her and sees her pain.  So lovely and satisfying. I have read that scene over and over. WG really knew something about relationships.

When Series 2 began, I was concerned that May 9th would be mishandled. It was reassuring when the scene stayed close to the text. However, then DH seems to have gone completely haywire. Why would she completely change the story, the essence of the characters, delete important scenes, add ridiculous, made-up scenes? Does she think the text isn't good enough? Not enough immediate gratification?  Does the story as it's written require too much thought from a TV viewer? Why would DH make such a point of defending her version of May 9th, then completely toss the rest away. I don't get it. I feel cheated. No gradual thaw? No subtle growth and healing? No apology? Eight minutes till the end of Episode 10, Ross says Demelza is his true love and BAM, everything's okay?!?!  I cannot believe that Andrew Graham would approve of this.

I'm sorry to go on and on.  I am grateful that this website exists and that I know others love the books as I do. I would love to hear how other readers are dealing with this.  Forget about the TV series? Go back to the books? Advice please!

 


Janice,  I agree with all you say and your idea to forget the TV series and go back to the books. That is what I am doing. That is where the pleasure is and where everything makes sense. WG's stories and characters feel real to me and have a kind of sanity which the television productions do not. There is so much in the books and we can never remember everything so each re-reading brings something new and fresh to our enjoyment. Happy reading Janice.wink



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One of my very favorite parts of the whole Poldark saga is May 10th till Christmas, 1793. Ross and Demelza's growth and healing is so realistic, subtle and satisfying: Werry House, MacNeil, R&D's first discussion about the "event" (when he returns from Looe), Ross asking Demelza to stay, the gradual thaw, good news about the mine, "I believe you still care for me," trip to Truro, Demelza's feeling warmth in her heart, and Christmas Eve, Ross explaining that his true love is Demelza, the fight and the apology. That is what finally gets through to Demelza; Ross knows that he hurt her and sees her pain.  So lovely and satisfying. I have read that scene over and over. WG really knew something about relationships.

When Series 2 began, I was concerned that May 9th would be mishandled. It was reassuring when the scene stayed close to the text. However, then DH seems to have gone completely haywire. Why would she completely change the story, the essence of the characters, delete important scenes, add ridiculous, made-up scenes? Does she think the text isn't good enough? Not enough immediate gratification?  Does the story as it's written require too much thought from a TV viewer? Why would DH make such a point of defending her version of May 9th, then completely toss the rest away. I don't get it. I feel cheated. No gradual thaw? No subtle growth and healing? No apology? Eight minutes till the end of Episode 10, Ross says Demelza is his true love and BAM, everything's okay?!?!  I cannot believe that Andrew Graham would approve of this.

I'm sorry to go on and on.  I am grateful that this website exists and that I know others love the books as I do. I would love to hear how other readers are dealing with this.  Forget about the TV series? Go back to the books? Advice please!

 



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If it is correct about the next series concentrating on Valentine's parentage, then they may as well stop after series 3.   The whole point of the next three books pivots on George's suspicion, but him not really knowing, that Valentine might not be his. But WG approaches it all with subtlety.  It is not discussed at every doorstep.   Even the final five books rely on George treating Valentine as his son, and certainly the Poldark children never become aware of their possible relationship with Valentine.  But, as we saw a few weeks ago, DH and Co allow many more characters knowledge of what, in the books, is known only to a few.  After all, everyone in North Cornwall must have heard about Ross' infidelity on May 9th. 

As I have said before, Mammoth it seems, cannot do subtlety.  Everything must be over exaggerated and to an extent, dumbed down.  What a golden opportunity missed... This last series could have been so much more sympathetically portrayed.  The books are anything but boring, so 'sexing it up' and changing the very essence of the characters' relationships with each other was really quite unnecessary.

There again, I wonder if this 'extra' on the DVD is put in as a tease, when Agatha, at the end of her life, taunts George about Valentine. 

The Black Moon has some good strong stories which could be really good TV. ( I know there has been filming on the river - rescue of Enys)  A great deal happens before George stops Agatha's party and all the rest that followed, so to concentrate on that one thing would be ludicrous.

 



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JanetMaison wrote:




Stella - where did you hear that about the next series being about the father of Valentine?  As far as DH moving into soap opera realm, she's already done that.  I'm afraid it's only going to get worse.  How about this?  Demelza thinks Valentine is Ross's so she has an affair with Hugh!  Not related to the book AT ALL, but that hasn't made a difference to many of the scenes in Series 2.


 Apparently it's on the series 2 DVD in the 'extras' but they make it so difficult to get into these extras that I haven't yet found it. You are right, Janet. It is already a soap. Such a pity. There will be no such thing as good television drama from now on. It's all about audience numbers and money.



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Stella Poldark wrote:

This is not how I feel about the books. Yes Demelza does have huge things to cope with in Warleggan especially but in the books Ross is not as unfeeling as he is portrayed in the production and Demelza is not as "crushed under the weight" of all the things that Ross and Elizabeth put her through. It is quite unbelievable that Demelza can forgive Ross for all the things he has done and said to her in the T.V. version. I feel so angry about the distortions and now even more angry as I hear that the next series is to be a lot about who is the father of Elizabeth's child. My anger is beyond description and I need to stay with the books. They have sufficient reality and balance in them to be believable. Debbie H is moving into the realms of soap opera.



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Tuesday 15th of November 2016 04:34:17 PM


Stella - where did you hear that about the next series being about the father of Valentine?  As far as DH moving into soap opera realm, she's already done that.  I'm afraid it's only going to get worse.  How about this?  Demelza thinks Valentine is Ross's so she has an affair with Hugh!  Not related to the book AT ALL, but that hasn't made a difference to many of the scenes in Series 2.  In the books, D&R never spoke of it: "neither said what was uppermost in their minds; it could never be uttered by anyone."  At most, they look at each other whenever anyone says that Valentine was premature.



-- Edited by JanetMaison on Tuesday 15th of November 2016 06:39:26 PM

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Dark mare wrote

 

"The first two books note Demelza's resilience and her talent for making herself happy and infecting those around her with that happiness. They make her spirit seem almost indestructible. The second two books seem determined to sabotage that talent for happiness and crush her spirit. I remember thinking when I first read "Warleggan" that what is happening to Demelza is like that punishment for suspected witches that involved laying a door or some other rectangular piece of wood atop the suspected witch's body and piling stones on the door until the woman was crushed under the weight. Only the thing underneath this door is Demelza's spirit, and the stones are all the things Ross, George and Elizabeth do to her and to one another unaware of or not caring how they are affecting her. The final stone is a boulder called May 9th. DH has done a good job of capturing the pulverizing of Demelza's spirit. The talent for happiness has retreated, leaving in its place a deep depression. "

--------------------------------------------------------

This is not how I feel about the books. Yes Demelza does have huge things to cope with in Warleggan especially but in the books Ross is not as unfeeling as he is portrayed in the production and Demelza is not as "crushed under the weight" of all the things that Ross and Elizabeth put her through. It is quite unbelievable that Demelza can forgive Ross for all the things he has done and said to her in the T.V. version. I feel so angry about the distortions and now even more angry as I hear that the next series is to be a lot about who is the father of Elizabeth's child. My anger is beyond description and I need to stay with the books. They have sufficient reality and balance in them to be believable. Debbie H is moving into the realms of soap opera.



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Tuesday 15th of November 2016 04:34:17 PM



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MrsMartin wrote:

Dark Mare

You are right that it was the word "bribe" that struck me as bitter. There are several things that I didn't  like in this last episode but the one that really stood out to me is Ross saying "it was just one night" , that irked me the most. It conveyed that Ross didn't understand the kind of pain that he had put Demelza through and I never thought for a moment that Ross was that insensitive. By making Demelza this so call "feisty" character, Debbie Horsfield  lost Ross' caring and sensitivity for Demelza. To me Debbie Horsfield has completely lost the complexity of Ross and Demelza relationship. Demelza didn't stop loving Ross because he had betrayed and hurt her. Ross didn't stop loving Demelza because he had been with Elizabeth. He understood the pain he had inflicted on Demelza, he was ashamed of himself and he felt for a long time that he couldn't ask for forgiveness because to him what he had done was unforgivable.  I understand the need to show Demelza anger and pain but what she didn't show was Ross' acknowledgement of that pain and how he knew he was responsible for it.  When Ross says `And there's one other thing I want you to know,' he added. `That is how deeply sorry I am that I ever hurt you in the first place - in May, I mean. You were so undeserving of any harm. All these months. I know how you will have felt. I want you to know that. If you had gone off with McNeil, I should have had only myself to blame.' Without Ross' acknowledgement and responsibility, how can there be any kind of reconciliation? By Ross just telling Demelza that he realises that she is the woman he loves would not be enough.


MrsMartin, 

I nearly threw the TV remote through the screen when I heard "Demelza, it was one night, how long will it take you to forgive me?" It sounded to me like he was just sick of being public enemy No. 1 at Nampara and didn't care how Demelza felt. He didn't want to hear it.

 

 

I rather like Debbie Horsfield's scripts because they pull on an interesting thread that runs through "Jeremy Poldark" and "Warleggan." The first two books note Demelza's resilience and her talent for making herself happy and infecting those around her with that happiness. They make her spirit seem almost indestructible. The second two books seem determined to sabotage that talent for happiness and crush her spirit. I remember thinking when I first read "Warleggan" that what is happening to Demelza is like that punishment for suspected witches that involved laying a door or some other rectangular piece of wood atop the suspected witch's body and piling stones on the door until the woman was crushed under the weight. Only the thing underneath this door is Demelza's spirit, and the stones are all the things Ross, George and Elizabeth do to her and to one another unaware of or not caring how they are affecting her. The final stone is a boulder called May 9th. DH has done a good job of capturing the pulverizing of Demelza's spirit. The talent for happiness has retreated, leaving in its place a deep depression. 

I agree about Ross, but I suspect the mine business got in the way. That and the reorganizing of scenes. It is unfortunate.

 

 



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It simply beggars belief the way Jud has turned out my favourite character of all, always remembering Paul Curran as being the archetypal Jud in the first series and whom I always think of when reading the books. Yet another wasted opportunity to reveal WG's wonderful humour and genius disbelief

For all its faults give me the original TV series every time from now on....



-- Edited by Ross Poldark on Tuesday 15th of November 2016 10:21:54 AM

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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

All in all, if they had lifted events after 9th May directly from the book, they would have made just as dramatic a piece of TV as the bungling which was shown.  It's not as though it would have been costly - in fact probably quite economical.  When I read Warleggan that sequence from when Ross returns from Trenwith to the end with the famous fermentation is actually the crux of the whole first four books: his realisation that Elizabeth is not the idol he thought and Demelza is so much better than her on all levels. 

Mrs G

 


I agree.  That part of the book is so important; I feel totally cheated that so much of it was eliminated.  And it probably would have cost less.  Can you imagine how much some of those scenes cost to film?  Storming Trenwith, Demelza in her dress by the sea (after Bodrugan's party).  



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 Dark Mare

You are right that it was the word "bribe" that struck me as bitter. There are several things that I didn't  like in this last episode but the one that really stood out to me is Ross saying "it was just one night" , that irked me the most. It conveyed that Ross didn't understand the kind of pain that he had put Demelza through and I never thought for a moment that Ross was that insensitive. By making Demelza this so call "feisty" character, Debbie Horsfield  lost Ross' caring and sensitivity for Demelza. To me Debbie Horsfield has completely lost the complexity of Ross and Demelza relationship. Demelza didn't stop loving Ross because he had betrayed and hurt her. Ross didn't stop loving Demelza because he had been with Elizabeth. He understood the pain he had inflicted on Demelza, he was ashamed of himself and he felt for a long time that he couldn't ask for forgiveness because to him what he had done was unforgivable.  I understand the need to show Demelza anger and pain but what she didn't show was Ross' acknowledgement of that pain and how he knew he was responsible for it.  When Ross says `And there's one other thing I want you to know,' he added. `That is how deeply sorry I am that I ever hurt you in the first place - in May, I mean. You were so undeserving of any harm. All these months. I know how you will have felt. I want you to know that. If you had gone off with McNeil, I should have had only myself to blame.' Without Ross' acknowledgement and responsibility, how can there be any kind of reconciliation? By Ross just telling Demelza that he realises that she is the woman he loves would not be enough.




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Their treatment of Series 2 does not inspire confidence that they can handle Series 3 in a way that honors WG.  Can you imagine?  I just shudder to think what they will do with Hugh Armitage and Valentine.  



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All in all, if they had lifted events after 9th May directly from the book, they would have made just as dramatic a piece of TV as the bungling which was shown.  It's not as though it would have been costly - in fact probably quite economical.  When I read Warleggan that sequence from when Ross returns from Trenwith to the end with the famous fermentation is actually the crux of the whole first four books: his realisation that Elizabeth is not the idol he thought and Demelza is so much better than her on all levels. 

Ross' discovery of the tin lodes is overshadowed by the misery both of them are feeling and they are unable to celebrate the longed for success.  Having been on the continual verge of bankruptcy and debt for so long, the reader yearns for them to be able to reconcile and enjoy it all. 

It is ironic that Ross brings Dwight and Caroline together again after their misunderstanding, but cannot articulate to Demelza about their own woes.

 

I also watched the missing piece from episode 10 and am glad it was cut. Book Demelza would never have mentioned a bribe (or many other things she voiced, come to that). 

Let us hope for better things and a faithful rendition of the next set of books.

Mrs G

 



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Dark Mare wrote:
 

 Am I right in guessing what struck you as bitter was Demelza asking whether what he had for her was a bribe? Maybe the script was trying to preserve the spirit of this motive confessed to by Ross in the book:

 


 Dark Mare

You are right that it was the word "bribe" that struck me as bitter. There are several things that I didn't  like in this last episode but the one that really stood out to me is Ross saying "it was just one night" , that irked me the most. It conveyed that Ross didn't understand the kind of pain that he had put Demelza through and I never thought for a moment that Ross was that insensitive. By making Demelza this so call "feisty" character, Debbie Horsfield  lost Ross' caring and sensitivity for Demelza. To me Debbie Horsfield has completely lost the complexity of Ross and Demelza relationship. Demelza didn't stop loving Ross because he had betrayed and hurt her. Ross didn't stop loving Demelza because he had been with Elizabeth. He understood the pain he had inflicted on Demelza, he was ashamed of himself and he felt for a long time that he couldn't ask for forgiveness because to him what he had done was unforgivable.  I understand the need to show Demelza anger and pain but what she didn't show was Ross' acknowledgement of that pain and how he knew he was responsible for it.  When Ross says `And there's one other thing I want you to know,' he added. `That is how deeply sorry I am that I ever hurt you in the first place - in May, I mean. You were so undeserving of any harm. All these months. I know how you will have felt. I want you to know that. If you had gone off with McNeil, I should have had only myself to blame.' Without Ross' acknowledgement and responsibility, how can there be any kind of reconciliation? By Ross just telling Demelza that he realises that she is the woman he loves would not be enough.

 



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Date: Nov 14 12:24 AM, 2016
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Stella Poldark wrote:

 I watched this and thought that if Debbie H had somehow crafted parts of it all together we could have watched something much closer to the book. The end of Warleggan is very important to get right as it is the start of a reconciliation. To some extent I wondered right at the end if a reconciliation was possible and that is not how the book left me feeling with Demelza owning some part in the state of their relationship. What is missing that should have been included is I think  Ross saying "And there's one other thing I want you to know. That is how deeply sorry I am that I ever hurt you in the first place---in May, I mean. You were so undeserving of any harm. All these months...I know how you will have felt. I want you to know that. If you had gone off with McNeill I should have had only myself to blame." 

In episode 10 Ross says nothing at all along these lines and yet it is what finally touches Demelza.

Stella



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Sunday 13th of November 2016 10:55:42 AM


 Exactly!



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JanetMaison wrote:

Stella - yes, no apology at all. And I love the apology in the book. It's one of my favorite parts. He gets it. He knows how much he hurts her. And she needed that (and I needed it, too).  It was so satisfying and meaningful.  Not the soap opera garbage we ended up with on TV. It's so disappointing that DH decided to take a different turn.


 Amen



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Date: Nov 14 12:17 AM, 2016
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MrsMartin wrote:

A deleted scene from the final episode. I'm not sure I like this one either. Demelza is just to bitter for my taste.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SikXVNDCQDI


 

 

 Am I right in guessing what struck you as bitter was Demelza asking whether what he had for her was a bribe? Maybe the script was trying to preserve the spirit of this motive confessed to by Ross in the book:

"... But if you suppose or suspect that in buying these things, I was hoping to buy myself back into your favour, then youre right. I admit it."

If so, I must admit that the word "bribe" bothered me too. The idea has to be expressed by Ross to work. To seem sweet or cute. 

As for her silence after Ross' answer to her question about Elizabeth, maybe she was feeling the way she did in the book: 

Ross said: "I want to tell you that Elizabeth means nothing to me anymore."
"Dont say that, Ross. I shouldnt want for you to say more than you feel" 
"But I do feel it"
"Yes, at present. But then again sometime, perhaps next month, perhaps next year ..."
 
Or maybe she was just thinking to herself, "Why won't he apologize so I can forgive him and we can put this all behind us?"
 
The one thing about Winston Graham as a writer that I find irritating is his way of allowing ambiguity to linger, even fester, rather than adding one more sentence that would clarify everything. To my annoyance, Debbie Horsfield is doing this too. I find it especially irksome when Demelza is being made to seem opaque because Graham more than once has stated that she prefers, even needs clarity. He put it this way in "Ross Poldark.":
 
He knew Demelza well enough to be sure that nothing less than a clear-cut issue was ever satisfactory to her.
 
 
 


-- Edited by Dark Mare on Monday 14th of November 2016 12:18:43 AM

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