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Post Info TOPIC: Discrepancies throughout the Poldark books


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RE: Discrepancies throughout the Poldark books
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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

To an extent, I too can forgive some small discrepancies; except WG was so meticulous in his research and spent many hours studying the period, Cornwall and many other topics, that it seems strange for there to be some quite noticeable ones.

Here is something which begins in The Black Moon and then is contradicted in The Four Swans.

Geoffrey Charles is showing Drake round Trenwith.  They come to the hall, heavily hung with portraits,

'These are all my ancestors,' said Geoffrey Charles.  'See this one, this is Anna Maria Trenwith, who married the first Poldark.  And this is my Great Uncle Joshua as a boy, and that is his favourite dog'.

In The Four Swans, Demelza visited the churchyard to see if work has begun on Agatha's headstone and she copied down the words on Joshua's grave.

WG writes:

All she knew of his parents (Ross') was Joshua's reputation as a young man, of his brief but happy marriage and of his returning to his old ways when his wife died.  All she had ever seen of Ross' mother was a damp spotted miniature, of Ross's father nothing at all; there was not even a portrait of him among the stacked pictures at Trenwith.

In one of the later books, and I cannot remember which one, I am fairly sure Ross is talking to one of the Nanfans (as far as I recall), who remembers Ross's mother.  He thinks about her for some minutes, rueing the fact that there is no image of her, she is so completely gone.

It's quite puzzling that these little snippets were not picked up on.

 


 Darn you, Mrs. Gimlett, I've had this discrepancy sitting in my drafts file waiting to my feeble brain to come up with some witty way to point out how ironic it was that when George toned down the Poldark influence in the Trenwith art collection, he failed to purge it of the portrait of Ross' father as a boy. Did he not know that the boy in the picture was Joshua Poldark or remember that Joshua Poldark was Ross' father? Or did he keep it on display so Ross wouldn't feel he could ask for it? And after Aunt Agatha dropped her bombshell, did George regularly exam the portrait for signs of a resemblance to Valentine as the boy aged?  



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I understand W.G. was a mystery writer also. Maybe he left these little teasers for to us find and ponder over. But gawd when you are writing about a family over a period of many years then  I can forgive him for not getting everything correct. 



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To an extent, I too can forgive some small discrepancies; except WG was so meticulous in his research and spent many hours studying the period, Cornwall and many other topics, that it seems strange for there to be some quite noticeable ones.

Here is something which begins in The Black Moon and then is contradicted in The Four Swans.

Geoffrey Charles is showing Drake round Trenwith.  They come to the hall, heavily hung with portraits,

'These are all my ancestors,' said Geoffrey Charles.  'See this one, this is Anna Maria Trenwith, who married the first Poldark.  And this is my Great Uncle Joshua as a boy, and that is his favourite dog'.

In The Four Swans, Demelza visited the churchyard to see if work has begun on Agatha's headstone and she copied down the words on Joshua's grave.

WG writes:

All she knew of his parents (Ross') was Joshua's reputation as a young man, of his brief but happy marriage and of his returning to his old ways when his wife died.  All she had ever seen of Ross' mother was a damp spotted miniature, of Ross's father nothing at all; there was not even a portrait of him among the stacked pictures at Trenwith.

In one of the later books, and I cannot remember which one, I am fairly sure Ross is talking to one of the Nanfans (as far as I recall), who remembers Ross's mother.  He thinks about her for some minutes, rueing the fact that there is no image of her, she is so completely gone.

It's quite puzzling that these little snippets were not picked up on.

 

 



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I agree with you, Susanne. I sometimes wonder if W.G. is looking upon us, smiling at our nitpickiness of his story's. I will give him "artistic license", whatever that is, to divorce himself from reality occasionally when writing these wonderful books. 



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It just amazes me how WG managed to write such a long historical saga at all before the age of Google, and before Word with it's convenient 'Find' function. I use both all the time. I think he's allowed the odd discrepancy!



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Off topic discussions on "Hector McNeil" transferred to this thread - "Discrepancies throughout the books"....

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This thread has now gone completely off-topic.

However, in reply to the burning of fences or Trenwith itself, it was totally wrong.

This is nothing to do with the Enclosures Act or anything illegal.  All George was doing was making himself unpopular with the locals because he wanted to define the land they owned by fencing it off.  He had bully boy gamekeepers and henchmen aplenty to ensure villagers didn't trespass and he had made certain no part of the fence encroached on common land.

The locals would have accepted it.  Not with good grace maybe, because they didn't like the man; but many landowners had boundary fences or walls.  Just because Ross had only a few stone posts marking the extent of his ownership doesn't mean all the gentry would have been content with the same.

I never thought I would be standing up for George and in doing so I am not suggesting I agree with his actions; but he was perfectly entitled to do that if he wanted.

I guess it was done only for effect.  I'm of the school who would have liked to see a faithful production, rather than random events.  There is ample drama within the books to draw from.

Just to complete my off-topic comments, I have been thinking about Nampara.  It is all wrong on screen.  It is supposed to be a Georgian building - not a mansion or stately home, but utilitarian and contemporary. In the series it is portrayed as a moorland dwelling, barely better than a miners cottage, with much exposed stone and very dark.  I know it adds atmosphere, but unless DH goes off-topic too, it will present problems when the renovation takes place. An elegant library would look completely incongruous anywhere near TV Nampara.

I'll go back to the kitchen now

Mrs G



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Off topic discussions on "Hector McNeil" transferred to this thread - "Discrepancies throughout the books"....

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I rather like the way the new series split the difference between the 1975 series and the books on burning Trenwith. Setting just the fences ablaze was perfect. There is something so dramatic about fire in the dark, but burning Trenwith was overkill and made more plot tinkering necessary. On the other hand, having everyone just accept the fences, as WG did, seemed like a missed opportunity. 

I just wish Debbie Horsfield had had Aunt Agatha congratulate Elizabeth for her choice in replacement husbands as they watched Demelza pleading with George and the mob. In just a few months George had achieved what the Trenwith/Poldarks had been unable to do in 250 years: alienate the neighbors enough to get them to march on the estate with torches and pitchforks. Or maybe Agatha could have congratulated George himself later.



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Dave, I you are confusing the cellar with the cache which was excavated when Trencrom began using Nampara Cove for landing the contraband.  The one Ross hid in.  Incidentally, when you read either WGs memoirs or Poldark's Cornwall, you will learn more about the cache!

The cellar was an integral part of the house from when it was built.  It is mentioned in the first edition of RP a few times, when Jud has to clean up all the detritus he and Prudie created when supposedly 'in charge' of the place, before Ross' return.



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IF I remember correctly when they decided to remodel the house Demelza, didn't like its memories, wanted it filled in, but Ross wasn't interested in doing that. 



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Yes, you are quite right - Jud does begin his last hurrah down in the cellar.

It is also mentioned again when the house is searched during the smuggling raid, but nothing is found there - I think it was a redundant space because after that, no mention, and it seems neither Ross nor Demelza ever descended those cellar steps!

 

 

 



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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Another change is in Nampara itself.  For those lucky enough to have a first edition of RP, the house has a ramshackle conservatory when Ross arrives back from America.  It also has a cellar.  Neither of these are ever mentioned again, and indeed, WG actually writes that the house had never had a conservatory. In this edition, there is half a chapter, describing Nampara house.

-----------------------

Mrs G, to be fair to WG, he did mention the cellar at least once more--in Demelza. It's in the chapter where Jud gets fired. Jud started swilling Ross' good gin in the cellar and then came up to the parlor and accused Jinny of sleeping with Ross, and claimed the proof was in little Benjamin Ross' scar.  



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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Perhaps the uncle of Demelza's was her mother's brother.  If so it could explain why Drake may not know of him, since he was the youngest and the mother died when he was very young.  We never learn much of Demelza senior, but perhaps she was a little above her husband.  She would have soon have been worn down by all those children - maybe they married because she was pregnant.  All speculation, of course,  but Tom Carne doesn't come across as the catch of the season!


 I thought I read that Demelza's mother was an only child -- possibly a love child -- and she spent part of her childhood on her aunt's farm. Maybe Henry was the aunt's husband, making him Demelza's great-uncle. 

I was thinking Henry might have been one of Tom Carne's two brothers who accompanied him to Nampara to claim Demelza and bring her back to Illugan. I'd like to think it was the younger one, who characterized the fight between Tom and Ross as the best fight he'd ever seen, adding, "Many's the time 'e's laced me. I never thought to see 'im beat. Thank 'ee, mister." You've gotta like a guy who thanks the man who finally bested his brother. 

 


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Stella Poldark wrote:
 Off topic I know but I cannot resist highlighting that poor Demelza senior had a child every year of her marriage!! Poor woman. I would like to have seen Tom Carne get his comeuppance.

He did. He got saddled with seven children under the age of 9. No matter how accomplished 8-year-old Demelza was at running the house, there were still six little boys being little boys in a tiny cottage. No wonder he drank.

Nellie was a saint to take them on, but she made Tom quit drinking, which meant he had to stay home nights, and go to church -- so much for his Sunday afternoon wrestling matches. 

 



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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Perhaps the uncle of Demelza's was her mother's brother.  If so it could explain why Drake may not know of him, since he was the youngest and the mother died when he was very young.  We never learn much of Demelza senior, but perhaps she was a little above her husband.  She would have soon have been worn down by all those children - maybe they married because she was pregnant.  All speculation, of course,  but Tom Carne doesn't come across as the catch of the season!


 Off topic I know but I cannot resist highlighting that poor Demelza senior had a child every year of her marriage!! Poor woman. I would like to have seen Tom Carne get his comeuppance.



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Problem with text suddenly going way off page this morning for some strange reason which I can't rectify or trace, so forum host providers notified....

Ross



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Perhaps the uncle of Demelza's was her mother's brother.  If so it could explain why Drake may not know of him, since he was the youngest and the mother died when he was very young.  We never learn much of Demelza senior, but perhaps she was a little above her husband.  She would have soon have been worn down by all those children - maybe they married because she was pregnant.  All speculation, of course,  but Tom Carne doesn't come across as the catch of the season!



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Sometimes the discrepancies from book to book seem almost deliberate. Here is one:

Page 410, "The Miller's Dance"

They called him Henry, after an uncle of Demelzas.

Page 130, "The Loving Cup"

"Why did you call him Henry?" Drake asked, staring down at his tiny nephew.

"We tried all the names we could think of," said Demelza "All the family tried.

It was quite different from the other children; we knew as soon as ever they were born. Not Henry. We almost called him Claude.

"Why?"

"It was Ross's brothers name - who died young. And Ross's grandfather too."

"And who was Henry?"

"Ross's grandfather too."

They both laughed.

"Claude Henry," Demelza explained unnecessarily.

"I thought I heard Clowance call him Harry."

"So you would. Henry. Harry. Hal. Thats what they called the Henrys who were kings."

"And he has another name?"

"Vennor. I dont suppose he will wish to be called that, but it all depends how he feels when he grows up."

WG seems to have forgotten from one book to the next after whom Henry was named. But is this a mistake or a red herring -- or even a breadcrumb of foreshadowing that was not returned to later?

Demelza is discussing the name choice with her brother Drake, who would know whether they have an uncle named Henry. Because he is the one who raises the subject, asking, "Why did you call him Henry?," it crossed my mind that maybe Demelza changed the story because her family had fallen out with the uncle she liked enough to name her son after him. If that happened, could the Carnes' conversion to Methodism and temperance be enough to drive a wedge between them and the rest of Tom's family? Would Tom expect his children to shun any relatives who hadn't followed him into the faith - or maybe had mocked him for the changes he'd made in his life since remarrying?

We'll never know, of course, but it is fun to speculate.



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I went through the first book and pull out these distances from place to place. Hope this helps. If time permits will do more with the other books. I have done distances to the French coast but didn't write them down. Hope to do so in the future. I too am always curious as to distances and also compass points which have confused me greatly in these books.

To take a child from her home to a house ten miles away, a girl and underage, Illogan to Nampara

Ross Poldark: A Novel of Cornwall, 1783-1787 (The Poldark Saga Book 1) (p. 119).

Next time youre here venture another three miles and visit Nampara". Ross's invitation to William-Alfreds who was visiting Trenwith House at this time.

Ross Poldark: A Novel of Cornwall, 1783-1787 (The Poldark Saga Book 1) (p. 138).

Distance from Mellin Cottages to Turno for Jim Carter's trial. The day of the trial was very warm, and Ross rode into Truro early with the songs of the birds all the way. In the well of the court Jinny Carter, who had walked the nine miles with her father, tried to smile as her husband glanced toward her.

Ross Poldark: A Novel of Cornwall, 1783-1787 (The Poldark Saga Book 1) (p. 239).

Distance from the beach to Nampara house. Then without words, they turned, walked across the sand and shingle, crossed the stream at the stepping stones, and walked together hand in hand the half mile to the house.

Ross Poldark: A Novel of Cornwall, 1783-1787 (The Poldark Saga Book 1) (p. 298).

Distance from Mellin cottages to Bodmin. One never knew how much the jailer pocketed, and it had taken all Mrs. Zackys persuasion, and the claims of motherhood, to keep Jinny from walking the twenty-six miles to Bodmin,

Ross Poldark: A Novel of Cornwall, 1783-1787 (The Poldark Saga Book 1) (p. 336)

Turno to London --approximately 284 miles and a 5 day trip in Poldark's time. google maps.



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Thanks Ross. Very helpful!



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For what it's worth WG's original maps etc. in the Society's original Website & Archives. Top bar extreme left....

http://web.archive.org/web/20071015071914/http://www.poldark.org.uk/map1953.html

Ross smile



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Exactly Stella, throughout the novels the distance between Nampara and Trenwith varies between 3 and four miles. Perhaps when Ross says it was three miles he was referring to one of his 'secret ways' into Trenwith that he alluded to when facing George down.smile



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Dave wrote:

A normal person can walk 3 miles in an hour, less if you have a long stride like Ross, I imagine a horse at a normal trot can go twice that speed so I am guessing it would take two hours to go the 12 miles. Also, we know Trenwith is 3 miles from Nampara so when Ross and Demelza and others are going back and forth from there and to there it would be an hour walk. 


 Do we know that Trenwith is 3 miles from Nampara? Here is another discrepancy but I cannot point to where it is 4 miles and even 5 miles I believe but I recall reading all of these distances in the books.



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A normal person can walk 3 miles in an hour, less if you have a long stride like Ross, I imagine a horse at a normal trot can go twice that speed so I am guessing it would take two hours to go the 12 miles. Also, we know Trenwith is 3 miles from Nampara so when Ross and Demelza and others are going back and forth from there and to there it would be an hour walk. 



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More on the distance discrepancy between Nampara and Killewarren

At the end of TBM, when WG is wrapping up loose ends, he provides an update on Dwight's recovery at Killewarren. While the Nampara Poldarks are enjoying family time on their lawn, WG states:

"And a dozen miles away Caroline Penvenen was watching a groom help Dwight mount his first horse..."

This explains why, at the beginning of the book, it took R&D over 2 1/2 hours to reach to Killewarren.  It also explains why, on a subsequent visit to Nampara, Caroline told Demelza she could not stay longer because it would take her forever to get home and Uncle Ray would be worried.  And it particularly answers, for me, the question of why Ross didn't enforce his suggestion (at the end of Warleggan) that Caroline visit often.

'When Dwight has gone, so long as you stay with your uncle, I hope you'll come and sup with us once or twice a week. It will help the time to pass.'  This would have been a welcome escape for Caroline. 

But, apparently, WG found it convenient to have the families closer so that the twelve miles gradually shrunk until by the end of the saga, the distance between the two homes was a comfortable four mile walk. 

 ----------------------------------------

One of the inconsistencies that always strikes me is the shifting distance between Nampara and Killewarren. An early example occurs in The Black Moon (p. 124 my edition). When Ross and Demelza accept an invitation to dine with Ralph-Allen Daniell, they decide to break their journey by taking chocolate with Caroline at Killewarren.  

The text states, "they left home before eight on the 28th..." and "reached Killewarren about ten-thirty..."

This suggests a travel time of over two-and-a-half-hours by horseback. In each of the successive books, the distance seems to shrink drastically until it seems that the two houses are separated only by a walking distance of a few miles.  Then, in the Author's Note to Bella, we are informed,  "A mile beyond Sawle Church in an inland direction live the ENYSES, at Killewarren."

Finally, when Caroline invites Lord Edward to stay at Killewarren during Bella's illness, he asks Clowance, "how far is their house from here? She relies, "about four miles." 



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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Candles were a very important part of life in those times, Dave.  Without them - only firelight!

I think if you light one candle on a dark night and see just how little light it gives, you'll understand why there are so many.  It wasn't romanticism per se, as is the case for much candle lighting these days, but pure practicality.

Perhaps Ross lit another candle because he liked to see what he was taking to his bed...  I think that would mean there were then three in the bedroom; one Ross carried upstairs with him, one Demelza brought with her and the extra one he decided was necessary. That was quite extravagant...


 Well if no one else is going offer this observation on the subject of candlelight, I will. (It is one of my favorite scenes from a Poldark marriage. Demelza is beginning the first morning of her first visit to London.)

Spoiler



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Sunday 5th of February 2017 11:04:44 AM



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I live in a rural area and sometimes during a ferocious storm we lose our power and have to resort to candles. 



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Hi, I don't if Victoria is playing over there but it is here in the States and there was a scene in last week's episode about candles. The Queen's right-hand gal (or whatever she is called) is trying to save money and is using tallow instead of wax. It was amusing how it had disastrous consequences during  Q.Victoria's party ball. 



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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Candles were a very important part of life in those times, Dave.  Without them - only firelight!

I think if you light one candle on a dark night and see just how little light it gives, you'll understand why there are so many.  It wasn't romanticism per se, as is the case for much candle lighting these days, but pure practicality.

Perhaps Ross lit another candle because he liked to see what he was taking to his bed...  I think that would mean there were then three in the bedroom; one Ross carried upstairs with him, one Demelza brought with her and the extra one he decided was necessary. That was quite extravagant...

Oh and Stella, you say how does WG remember small details - well, I would think that scene was etched into his brain.  It's the catalyst for everything.  I guess he wrote and rewrote that section so it would naturally be something he would never forget.


 The importance of candles is something I forget. I recall there was mention of how many more candles there were at Trenwith and think it might have been Demelza who noticed this. Of course George had even more!

Mrs G - you are of course right about that scene being the catalyst for everything and so naturally WG would have it etched into his brain. There are so many aspects and layers to the books and many things that are linked together throughout the books that, even if one spent a lifetime re-reading and noting the many intertwined aspects of the books, it would be impossible to know them all.

Stella



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Candles were a very important part of life in those times, Dave.  Without them - only firelight!

I think if you light one candle on a dark night and see just how little light it gives, you'll understand why there are so many.  It wasn't romanticism per se, as is the case for much candle lighting these days, but pure practicality.

Perhaps Ross lit another candle because he liked to see what he was taking to his bed...  I think that would mean there were then three in the bedroom; one Ross carried upstairs with him, one Demelza brought with her and the extra one he decided was necessary. That was quite extravagant...

Oh and Stella, you say how does WG remember small details - well, I would think that scene was etched into his brain.  It's the catalyst for everything.  I guess he wrote and rewrote that section so it would naturally be something he would never forget.



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Yes Yes, I remember that when I first read that episode and thought it was puzzling. I would think he would put the candle out. Of course, candlelight is very poor and it is maybe more romantic than most electric ones or does Ross likes to see what is going on. Do you have an idea why he lit the candle? Also, candles are mention many times in these books. What did  W.G. indicate by so many lighting or extinguishing of candles   ......most times they are extinguished and the smoke continues to curl upwards.  Even in the film version they use this candle theme, is it a transition effect? In the film someone mentioned they used the surf, waves breaking on the shore to indicated a jump forward in time. 



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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Yes, Stella.

Ross and Demelza are 'relaxing' in bed after his return from London and they are catching up on news, and idly talking of memories and trivia.  Then I think it is Demelza who says something like 'do you remember first taking me to bed in this room?'  Then he points out she seduced him at which she replies it didn't feel like it because he lit another candle.  He tells her he meant to know her better by morning...


 Thank you Mrs G. You always have the answers biggrin I thought that WG did not re-read his earlier books so I wonder how he remembered such a small detail but got other things wrong.



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Yes, Stella.

Ross and Demelza are 'relaxing' in bed after his return from London and they are catching up on news, and idly talking of memories and trivia.  Then I think it is Demelza who says something like 'do you remember first taking me to bed in this room?'  Then he points out she seduced him at which she replies it didn't feel like it because he lit another candle.  He tells her he meant to know her better by morning...



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What follows is not a discrepancy but I'm hoping you will indulge me. In Ross Poldark, just before the seduction scene gets going Ross lights a second candle. We are not told why until The Stranger from the Sea. Can anyone remember where in The Stranger From the Sea we are given an explanation of the second candle?



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Yeah, I agree I was just having a little fun with this one. I think his correct name "Malcolm" is mentioned later in the book. 



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That's right. I'd forgotten that one.



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I think Hector was just a simple error.  WG acknowledged in his memoirs that he didn't read the previous books when he embarked on book 5.  Considering all he wrote in the intervening years, it's astonishing how much he did remember.  The odd mistake of a first name is forgivable. 

However, it should have been picked up before publication.

 

Another inconsistency through the books is The Gatehouse, where Dwight lived. 

Ross originally goes to old Horace Treneglos to ask him about it, as it is on his land.   Later it seems to creep over onto Poldark land and by the later books, Ross has assumed complete ownership of it.



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I doubt it. I think he just misremembered what first name he'd given McNeil. 

Maybe Hector McNeil was the name WG originally chose when he was writing "Warleggan," the first book in which he discloses McNeil's first name, and someone reading the manuscript reminded him there was a real Hector McNeil. And not only was Hector McNeil a real person, but when Soviet spy Guy Burgess had spirited hundreds of top secret documents out of the office of the state secretary at the Foreign Office to be photographed for the Kremlin, McNeil had been the hoodwinked state secretary and Burgess, his private secretary. (Burgess and Donald Maclean, members 1 and 2 of the Cambridge Five, defected to the Soviet Union in 1951, two years before "Warleggan" was published.) Somehow I doubt WG would have wanted to give that poor man's name to his lecherous soldier character.

However, by the time he was writing "The Four Swans" more than 20 years later, he might have forgotten about all that and remembered only the first name he had come up with. 

 

 



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Date: Jan 29 4:28 AM, 2017
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So was this some inside joke W.G. was playing?  



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Dave,

Let's just accept it as a mistake. The alternative is too dreadful to contemplate: There was actually a mother who christened her son Hector Malcolm McNeil and then called him Malcolm. Given the definition of hector is "talk to someone in a bullying way," she would have essentially been inviting people to bully her son. Too cruel.

I do wonder whether the Cambridge Five spy ring was back in the news when WG was writing that sentence because there was a prominent Scottish politician named Hector McNeil who had had the misfortune of having employed one of the Soviet spies, Guy Burgess, as his private secretary. (When Burgess worked for McNeil, then Minister of State at the Foreign Office, he was leaking top secret documents to the Soviets. He would spirit them out of McNeil's office, give them to Soviet agent to photograph and then return them to the office the next day. McNeil never caught on.)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hector_McNeil

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Burgess

 



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'

Compared to the predatory conquerors she had kept at bay in the past, such as Hugh Bodrugan, Hector McNeil and John Treneglos, this was completely without risk, danger or any other hazard. But it didnt feel like it which was the trouble'.  p.85 Four Swans

Is this a mistake ? Hector?  

However I would like to think that  that incident at Werry House way back in time was so distressful and shameful to Demelza she  could never say his full name especially his first name  "Malcolm".   'As a special favour for tonight, would you consider calling me Malcolm?  p.335 Warleggan. 

 

Here is a post that I placed elsewhere. The last sentence is my interpretation to help cover the mistake. After all I don't think it would be too unreasonable for Demelza to have those thoughts. 



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Date: Jan 20 4:48 PM, 2017
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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

In house editors did read proofs, but they were not expected to pick up discrepancies of the sort we are discussing.  When I was in publishing, some authors very annoyingly were prone to some re-writing at the galley proof stage.  Occasionally it improved things, most often it just annoyed the type-setters.

However things may have been different in other countries.  I am talking about 50 years ago!  Goodness knows what happens now - some books are so full of mistakes I wonder if anyone at production stage reads them at all.


That's funny. As I recall, that was the reason we stopped having reporters read page proofs before deadline. 

It is disturbing how much of the production process of each print medium has been streamlined into ineffectiveness. 

 



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Fijane wrote:

Stella, I wasn't sure of the final conclusion based on reading the comments. Mrs Gimlett said that she "seemed to remember" that he had other christian names - I took that as uncertain. Can anyone confirm that he definitely had those other names, and that would be the reason they were occasionally used?


 Fijane - I did look up one reference in The Black Moon and found that in consecutive paragraphs he was referred to as 'Osborne' and then 'William'. I have not looked for other names and am rather busy just now. I thought it was only these two that were used.

Stella



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Stella, I wasn't sure of the final conclusion based on reading the comments. Mrs Gimlett said that she "seemed to remember" that he had other christian names - I took that as uncertain. Can anyone confirm that he definitely had those other names, and that would be the reason they were occasionally used?



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Here are two more.

(1) Near the end of the Angry Tide,  when Ross is seeking yet another reconciliation with Demelza, they discuss their tempestuous relationship.

Demelza says: "Perhaps we both care too much."

Ross replies: "It's a signal failing in two people who have been married fourteen years. But I think if we can admit that, it is a long way towards understanding."

It is then near the end of 1799. Since they were married in 1787, the date is off a couple of years.  

 

(2) I seem to recall someone mentioning the changing number of Mrs. Zacky's children, but I can't find it in this thread. But in any event I think this is another example.

In Ross Poldark, when Ross has just returned home and is seeking "cheap" labor to help restore his farm, he visits the Martins. 

"There were two new faces since Ross left, making eleven in all, and Mrs. Martin was pregnant again."

Then in the Twisted Sword, Ross visits the Martins again when he is trying to recruit Martins to attend Katie and Music's wedding. He notices:

"Mrs. Zacky, who had delivered Demelza of Julia and helped at the births of Jeremy and Clowance, and who had eight children of her own, had not shriveled with the years: she was a stout, white-haired, bespectacled, flat-faced, rubicund, vigorous seventy-one."   

Of course it's possible that WG was referring to the number of children who had lived.

 

 

 



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Date: Jan 18 11:31 AM, 2017
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Fijane wrote:
Stella Poldark wrote:
Fijane wrote:

Reading The Black Moon, I've just come across another small error. George is considering the pros and cons of allowing Morwenna to go back to Trenwith after her initial resistance to the marriage plans. He speculates that a bit of time and distance will do no harm (little does he know) and calls Osborne Whitworth , "William Osborne". Typo, maybe? or a little lapse in concentration?


 Fijane - can you give me the Book number and Chapter number please? I have a first edition Black Moon and would like to see if this error is in it. I remember seeing it in the Pan Macmillan edition.

Stella


Sorry about late reply, it's been a busy couple of days.

It is in Book Two, Chapter 5 - in my Pan Mac it is on page 209. The paragraph starts "The decision to let her return to Trenwith with Mr and Mrs Jonathan Chynoweth and Geoffrey Charles was taken late one evening..."

The later part: "...absence from William Osborne might make the heart grow fonder."

So, was it a mistake, or a deliberate use of two christian names?


 Fijane - if you scroll down you will see posts from others giving details of other occasions when Osborne was referred to as William. Thanks for information and I shall still check it with my first edition.

 



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Date: Jan 17 10:11 PM, 2017
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Stella Poldark wrote:
Fijane wrote:

Reading The Black Moon, I've just come across another small error. George is considering the pros and cons of allowing Morwenna to go back to Trenwith after her initial resistance to the marriage plans. He speculates that a bit of time and distance will do no harm (little does he know) and calls Osborne Whitworth , "William Osborne". Typo, maybe? or a little lapse in concentration?


 Fijane - can you give me the Book number and Chapter number please? I have a first edition Black Moon and would like to see if this error is in it. I remember seeing it in the Pan Macmillan edition.

Stella


Sorry about late reply, it's been a busy couple of days.

It is in Book Two, Chapter 5 - in my Pan Mac it is on page 209. The paragraph starts "The decision to let her return to Trenwith with Mr and Mrs Jonathan Chynoweth and Geoffrey Charles was taken late one evening..."

The later part: "...absence from William Osborne might make the heart grow fonder."

So, was it a mistake, or a deliberate use of two christian names?



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Date: Jan 17 6:59 PM, 2017
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In house editors did read proofs, but they were not expected to pick up discrepancies of the sort we are discussing.  When I was in publishing, some authors very annoyingly were prone to some re-writing at the galley proof stage.  Occasionally it improved things, most often it just annoyed the type-setters.

However things may have been different in other countries.  I am talking about 50 years ago!  Goodness knows what happens now - some books are so full of mistakes I wonder if anyone at production stage reads them at all.



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Date: Jan 17 3:55 PM, 2017
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You're right, Mrs. Gimlett, it was at the ball. I now remember it. Thanks!

I was under the impression that there was even more redundancy in book editing than there was in newspaper and magazine editing before the recession and technology made thousands of editing jobs just disappear. I thought the author and the editors all had to read the galleys and the proofreader had to read them against the manuscript. A lot of writers hate to read their own work once it is in type -- the way actors hate to see themselves on screen -- so I'm surprised that book publishers would leave the proof checking to authors. (Newspapers certainly never did that to reporters when I was in the business.) 



-- Edited by Dark Mare on Tuesday 17th of January 2017 03:57:53 PM

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I think you will find that William Osborne occurs a few times - in Demelza for a start - at the ball Demelza and Ross attend.  Lady Whitworth is talking to Hon. Maria Agar and mentions William.

I seem to remember that William was one of his names, but he was mostly called Osborne, possibly his father had been a William and so they used his other name.

In the days when the early novels were printed galley proofs would have been sent to the author for any corrections; typographical errors were picked up by editorial staff in house.



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Hollyhock wrote:

Well, I am not going to beat this horse to death, but I stand by original observation. It should not have taken Ross and Demelza over two and a half hours to travel four miles from Nampara to Killewarren. Even if Judith was a young, untrained pony, Ross was enough of an accomplished horseman to control any possible unruliness. (I mean, not even the wildest horse would dare defy Ross Poldark for so long a time!) Comparatively, as was suggested earlier in this thread, it took them practically as long to reach Killewarren as it did their final destination, Trelissick, which was several miles on the other side of Turro. Logically and geographically speaking, this should not have been the case. Later in the books, WG has people comfortably walking between Nampara and Killewarren regularly. So, this is is clearly a discrepancy, whether the great man forgot what he wrote or later changed his mind. 



-- Edited by Hollyhock on Friday 13th of January 2017 10:35:59 PM


I think you are probably right that it was yet another error that the editors and proofreaders failed to catch and kick back to Winston Graham to fix. However, I still say it is not inconceivable that they would spend 2.5 hours on a four-mile ride if one of the mounts was a green horse for the reasons I previously listed.

I just reread the passage, and it occurred to me that they may have been expected at Killewarren at a set time, 10:30 a.m., and left before 8 a.m. just because it was a nice day and they felt like it. Maybe they spent 2.5 hours getting from point A to point B because they had nothing to keep them at home past 8 a.m., but they didn't want to arrive at Killewarren too early. Nothing says they were riding the whole time. They could have stopped to talk for a while or to let the horses graze or drink from a creek. 



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