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Post Info TOPIC: Series 2 Episode 5


Student

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Date: Jan 17 9:46 PM, 2017
RE: Series 2 Episode 5
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I've just realised that my reply does actually highlight a gender difference in romance. The stocking scene is highly sensual, which while I like that, I now note that what I have described as my favourite scenes are not sexual in a conventional sense. It is possible that a man might not see them as "romantic" at all, yet for me the friendship aspect is highly romantic.

Interesting.



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Date: Jan 17 9:42 PM, 2017
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Dave wrote:

I don't know Fijane I will give you arguement there. I vote for the stocking scene. Where Ross gives Demelza stockings for a gift to make up for his neglect of her. She is dazzled by the gift and even more when he oh so very slowly tries them on, fits them up to her exposed thigh, then slowing ties the ribbon and well we all know what happens next, don't we?

Do our genders make the perceptions different?


Maybe, Dave. I don't doubt at all that the genders see romance very differently (LOL).

I do love the stocking scene, too, but it is slightly diminished by the changes made from the book to the screen. You have the advantage if you have not yet read it.

In reality, I would be hard put to elevate one romantic scene above others, because for me the magic of the series (until the last two episodes) has been Ross and Demelza's love story. I adore the two actors, and every interaction is a delight to me. In fact, some of my favourite scenes are not the perceived romantic ones, but the ones that show fun, happiness and growing friendship like when they are talking at the dining table. Any scene where Ross smiles or laughs gives me goosebumps. I'm not so much a fan of the brooding image that the producers promote.



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Date: Jan 17 2:36 PM, 2017
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I don't know Fijane I will give you arguement there. I vote for the stocking scene. Where Ross gives Demelza stockings for a gift to make up for his neglect of her. She is dazzled by the gift and even more when he oh so very slowly tries them on, fits them up to her exposed thigh, then slowing ties the ribbon and well we all know what happens next, don't we?

Do our genders make the perceptions different?



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Date: Jan 14 9:56 AM, 2017
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Pass....biggrin



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Date: Jan 14 3:50 AM, 2017
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I found the following description of the duties of a scullery maid on the "Manor House" series' website. It looks like a large part of a scullery maid's job was being the servants' servant. Jud and Prudie would have approved.

The Scullery Maid: Daily Duties

Morning Duties

  • You must rise at six o'clock and wash and dress, with your hair tied neatly back beneath your cap.

  • Your bed must be made and you must be downstairs at work within half an hour of waking.

  • You first task of the day is to stoke the Kitchen range to a good heat, to boil water for early morning tea.

  • You must then empty the chamber pots of all the female Servants, and wash them around with a vinegar soaked rag kept only for this purpose.

  • You should also assist the Lower Servants in preparing the early morning tea for the Upper Servants.

  • You must then set about cleaning the Kitchen passages, the Pantries, the Kitchen and Scullery.

  • When the Chef de Cuisine arrives in the Kitchen at half-past seven, you will be expected to curtsey and bid him "Good Morning".

  • At a quarter-to eight you should lay the table in the Servants' Hall for Breakfast.

  • Breakfast is served in the Servants' Hall at a quarter past eight. You should clear the table afterwards and wash the dishes.

  • At a quarter-past nine you must appear in a presentable state, attired in a clean apron, for Morning prayers in the Main Hall. This is the only time that it is acceptable for you to be seen above stairs, and it is compulsory for all members of Staff to attend.

  • Your duties resume in the Kitchen at ten o'clock, when you must wash up all the dishes from the Servants' Breakfast, as well as the pans and kitchen utensils used in preparing both the Servants' and Family's Breakfasts.

  • At half-past ten you should lay the table in the Servants' Hall for tea.

  • At eleven o'clock tea is served in the Servants' Hall. You should clear the table afterwards and wash up.

  • You should then assist the Kitchen Maid and Chef with preparations for the Servants' Dinner and Family's Luncheon, should they require you to.

  • You must ensure the Kitchen is kept spotless at all times and continuously wash up after both the Chef de Cuisine and the Kitchen Maid as they make their preparations.

  • At Midday you are to take your Dinner in the Kitchen with the Kitchen Maid so that you may watch over the Family's Luncheon, whilst the Chef takes his Dinner in the Servants' Hall with the other Servants. The Second Footman will lay the table, serve, and clear away the dirty dishes.

Afternoon Duties

  • Your duties resume at one o'clock when you must begin washing up after the Servants' Dinner, and the Family's Luncheon.

  • Providing your work is done, you may have one hour at your leisure between half-past two and half-past three.

  • At half-past three you should lay the table in the Servants' Hall for Tea.

  • Tea is served in the Servants' Hall at four o'clock, you should clear the table afterwards.

  • At half-past four, you should resume your duties in the Kitchen, washing up after the Servants' Tea and the utensils used in preparation for the Family's Tea.

  • You must assist the Kitchen Maid with any food preparation for the Family's dinner and Servants' Supper and continuously wash up any pots and pans used.

  • After the Family's Dinner has been served you must clean the Kitchen Passages, Pantries, Scullery and Kitchen.

  • Supper is served in the Servants' Hall at half-past nine. The Second Footman is to lay the table, serve, and clear away afterwards.

  • Providing you work is done, from half past nine until you are required to go to bed, you may enjoy your leisure.



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Date: Jan 13 11:42 AM, 2017
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Dark Mare wrote:

Ross decked George twice for referring to Demelza as a scullery maid (once at the Red Lion and once at Trenwith) and Nick Vigus for saying "slumming with scullery maids," and yet when he and Elizabeth were flirting after the harvest celebration, he actually said: "Surely there's a greater impediment. You're a lady. You could never have played the scullery maid."

He didn't know it, but Demelza was in the hallway and heard every word.


This is another bit which DH added, which was unnecessary and out of character. It implies that Ross still thought of Demelza as a scullery maid, even got some kind of kick out of it! No No No No No!



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Date: Jan 12 10:32 AM, 2017
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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Fijane, I did miss that bit of Nick Vigus' dialogue. But that in itself is absurd - an employee of Ross would never have spoken to him like that. I still think Ross would have held his hand, he would have been marched out of the mine never to return.

The building up of Charlie Kempthorne and his unlikely acquisition of household goods could have been done much more subltely.


Nick Vigus and Ross had bad blood between them that went back to Jim Carter's arrest. I don't find it shocking that Nick Vigus mouthed off to Ross; I find it impossible to believe Ross ever hired him as a tributer in the first place.

Does it bother anyone else that they keep casting young, good-looking men to play the minor villains WG described as anything but attractive?



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Date: Jan 12 10:20 AM, 2017
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Fijane wrote:

Mrs Gimlett, regarding Ross punching Nick Vigus - I think they are trying to lay down the storyline about the person who betrays the smugglers (Of course, those of you seeing the eps further ahead already know if this is correct). We know who the betrayer is, but they are making quite a big thing about Nick's character and reminding us of his role in Jim's arrest and Ross's trial. I think the intention is to throw a red herring.

But Ross's punch is prompted by Nick's words:

"...You've no notion what it's like to live in squalor, and if ee think ee do, by slumming with scullery maids..." - he doesn't get to finish the sentence.

So, he's defending Demelza's honour, rather than beating him up for being the betrayer (without evidence). Possibly a little for Jim, and for the trial as well.

But I agree, it does paint Ross as more hot-headed than is necessary.


Ross decked George twice for referring to Demelza as a scullery maid (once at the Red Lion and once at Trenwith) and Nick Vigus for saying "slumming with scullery maids," and yet when he and Elizabeth were flirting after the harvest celebration, he actually said: "Surely there's a greater impediment. You're a lady. You could never have played the scullery maid."

He didn't know it, but Demelza was in the hallway and heard every word.



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Date: Jan 12 5:06 AM, 2017
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Hollyhock wrote:

Maybe this is old news but I see that EP 5'sbathtub scene was voted 2016's #1 tv moment. No disagreement here.

"Poldark tin bath scene named best TV moment of 2016" BBC--http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-38466848


Obviously, BBC viewers are a very discerning lot.

I loved that scene, but it was oh, so short. Hopefully it will push aside all the over-kill about the scything scene.



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Maybe this is old news but I see that EP 5'sbathtub scene was voted 2016's #1 tv moment. No disagreement here.

"Poldark tin bath scene named best TV moment of 2016" BBC--http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-38466848



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Date: Oct 25 9:30 AM, 2016
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Fijane, I did miss that bit of Nick Vigus' dialogue. But that in itself is absurd - an employee of Ross would never have spoken to him like that. I still think Ross would have held his hand, he would have been marched out of the mine never to return.

The building up of Charlie Kempthorne and his unlikely acquisition of household goods could have been done much more subltely.



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Date: Oct 25 1:21 AM, 2016
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Mrs Gimlett, regarding Ross punching Nick Vigus - I think they are trying to lay down the storyline about the person who betrays the smugglers (Of course, those of you seeing the eps further ahead already know if this is correct). We know who the betrayer is, but they are making quite a big thing about Nick's character and reminding us of his role in Jim's arrest and Ross's trial. I think the intention is to throw a red herring.

But Ross's punch is prompted by Nick's words:

"...You've no notion what it's like to live in squalor, and if ee think ee do, by slumming with scullery maids..." - he doesn't get to finish the sentence.

So, he's defending Demelza's honour, rather than beating him up for being the betrayer (without evidence). Possibly a little for Jim, and for the trial as well.

But I agree, it does paint Ross as more hot-headed than is necessary.



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Date: Oct 25 1:08 AM, 2016
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I enjoyed Episode 5, as much as you can enjoy an episode with such a sad ending.

Once again the highlight was Dwight and Caroline - just perfectly done, and very close to the books (apart from her appearing in Sawle and at the mine at weird times). It makes me wonder why they can't stick more closely to the books for the other relationships?

George boxing - this is becoming a joke. Can he not receive any important communication without his sparring partner being present?

The dinner - I think my memory must be a little hazy on this event, so I didn't notice too much amiss. It certainly left out the impression of what Francis thought about it all. I have to agree though with your first post, Mrs Gimlett, that it is the subtleties/nuances of the relationships that the writers are not catching. It is quite an event-driven production, missing a lot of the revealing conversations between characters.

Francis' death was very well done, and if you weren't familiar with the books it would be very powerful. But for me, a major factor was changed in that everybody was aware that he was missing and that something bad might have been happening. In the book, the greatest tragedy and the thing that breaks my heart, is that everybody else is going on with normal life, while Francis is counting the minutes until help comes:

"If he shouted now, he had to suck at the air for half a minute afterward to recover. By now it was well after ten. Somebody must come soon. He could not disappear without a trace and cause no comment....

...At about this time Elizabeth closed the book in which she had been teaching Geoffrey Charles to read. ...'Papa will be home soon, and you know he likes you to be in bed by seven.'...Geoffrey Charles galloped from the room, and Elizabeth looked up at the clock. It was nearly half past six."

Francis is well dead by the time anything else happens. Ross returns "just before eight" and he and Demelza have a conversation about the promissary note, which is then interrupted by Tabb enquiring for Francis. Maybe this sense of suspense was too hard to convey without being able to hear Francis' thoughts.

All of a sudden, we see Rosina Hoblyn - I wasn't ready for that. And she is blonde. I've always seen her as petite and dark, but now I am doubting my memory. I will have to go back and look again. Charlie Kempthorne is also introduced - very understated considering his importance in the future.



-- Edited by Fijane on Tuesday 25th of October 2016 01:09:39 AM

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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

We'll have to agree to differ. I think Elizabeth was drawn to Ross, but only in the way that something unattainable doesdraw people. As has been pointed out, in the first editions she actually says that she and Ross are not compatible and wouldn't make a good couple.

I think they each had a very strong attraction for the other, but in my view, it wasn't real love. Ross only recognised this some while after May 9th.

The way all this is beingbuilt upin the TV series just doesn't ring true to me - far too much interaction between them all. The books reveal they rarely saw each other, apart from Francis at the mine until his death, and thereafter Ross visited once a week for purely business reasons.


Mrs Gimlett,

You are a genius. It was the allure of the bad boy that Elizabeth was drawn to. Once Ross went into the army, he changed because he no longer needed to break the law to have an adventure -- and because the army has ways of making nonconformity very uncomfortable.

Then there is the problem of his lacking letter-writing skills. Demelza says in one of the much later books that his letters home from his foreign adventures lack any hint of his personality so she prefers to have him tell her the stories once he gets home. Poor Elizabeth probably got letters that were more about the war and less about how beautiful she is and how much he misses her and exactly where and how he would be kissing her if he were with her at this very moment. No wonder her eye wandered Francis' way.

What I have always found funny was Elizabeth's insistence that she outgrew Ross, when clearly the opposite happened. Time had stood still for Elizabeth, Francis and George.



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Date: Oct 10 7:17 AM, 2016
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As has been pointed out, in the first editions she actually says that she and Ross are not compatible and wouldn't make a good couple.

That doesn't automatically mean that she had never really loved Ross. Her comment about them being incompatible was spoken from a pragmatic point of view. Which is typical Elizabeth. It is possible that deep down, she loved him . . . until the events of "Warleggan".

Why do a lot of people assume that because a person - especially a woman - tries to be cool-headed or keep her or his emotions in check, she or he automatically has a cold personality? I never understood this kind of thinking.



-- Edited by LJones41 on Monday 10th of October 2016 07:18:37 AM



-- Edited by LJones41 on Monday 10th of October 2016 07:18:59 AM

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We'll have to agree to differ.  I think Elizabeth was drawn to Ross, but only in the way that something unattainable does draw people. As has been pointed out, in the first editions she actually says that she and Ross are not compatible and wouldn't make a good couple. 

I think they each had a very strong attraction for the other, but in my view, it wasn't real love.  Ross only recognised this some while after May 9th.

The way all this is being built up in the TV series just doesn't ring true to me - far too much interaction between them all.  The books reveal they rarely saw each other, apart from Francis at the mine until his death, and thereafter Ross visited once a week for purely business reasons.



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Date: Oct 9 1:23 AM, 2016
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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

If you are able to read the first editions of the first 4 books, there is much more in them alluding to Elizabeth's feelings. She doesn't love Ross any more than he really loves her. They had a boy/girl attachment which, because of his absence in America, they each built up into an idealised worship of each other. If Ross had stopped to think seriously, would he ever have imagined her slotting into life at Nampara, doing all the tasks Demelza performed, because they certainly would have been just as poverty stricken.

Elizabeth was put on a pedestal by all men, which is why her characterisation in the TV series is all awry. Elizabeth wouldn't have expected to do any labouring tasks - and indeed WG wrote she expected adoration from men, felt it was her due. Her love was all maternal and particularly to GC.


I strongly disagree with that assessment as the First Edition shows Elizabeth with more emotions and that she does love Ross. There is no proof in said texts to support the assertion that Elizabeth never loved Ross or vice versa...I have the first editions.



-- Edited by faith101 on Sunday 9th of October 2016 01:25:42 AM



-- Edited by faith101 on Sunday 9th of October 2016 01:26:05 AM

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Stella Poldark wrote:

There is also what Francis thought about Elizabeth and communicated to Demelza before he went to the mine and died. He said to Demelza "Elizabeth loves no one but herself" or words to that effect. I agree with Mrs Gimlett on this and would add that there is no evidence that she loves Ross.


Unfortunately, I think this is quote from the first adaptation and not from the books. However, there is the line from Francis at the end of the missing chapter ofDemelza, that she didn't love him and never had. Then there is this quote about how she feels about George not long after she had married him, around Christmas I think.

Somehow she never seemed able to meet George on equal terms. While she was absolute mistress of the small things, she found him absolute master, of the large. She did not love him; she was not even sure that he loved her; but she felt herself to be a treasured possession, cared for and considered in every way. Often it was delightful to be so treated. It was what she had, longed for during her widowhood.



-- Edited by MrsMartin on Sunday 9th of October 2016 12:45:39 AM



-- Edited by MrsMartin on Sunday 9th of October 2016 05:59:36 PM

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Date: Oct 7 10:26 PM, 2016
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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

If you are able to read the first editions of the first 4 books, there is much more in them alluding to Elizabeth's feelings. She doesn't love Ross any more than he really loves her. They had a boy/girl attachment which, because of his absence in America, they each built up into an idealised worship of each other. If Ross had stopped to think seriously, would he ever have imagined her slotting into life at Nampara, doing all the tasks Demelza performed, because they certainly would have been just as poverty stricken.

Elizabeth was put on a pedestal by all men, which is why her characterisation in the TV series is all awry. Elizabeth wouldn't have expected to do any labouring tasks - and indeed WG wrote she expected adoration from men, felt it was her due. Her love was all maternal and particularly to GC.


There is also what Francis thought about Elizabeth and communicated to Demelza before he went to the mine and died. He said to Demelza "Elizabeth loves no one but herself" or words to that effect. I agree with Mrs Gimlett on this and would add that there is no evidence that she loves Ross.



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I agree. I've seen only the first two episodes, but I am already a major fan of this Caroline.

As for the other matter, perhaps Debbie Horsfield has her own ideas about what happened May 9th and what it meant, and her ideas don't necessarily square with Winston Graham's. In the clearing-up scene in Episode 2, Elizabeth seemed to take what Ross said as a pass, and she clearly discouraged him, sending him off to bed and reminding him Demelza was probably waiting for him. This is the opposite of what happened in the book. (Although I have always wondered whether Ross was reading too much into what Elizabeth said and did that night. When I read a later passage in which he compared touching Demelza's arm with touching Elizabeth's that Christmas Eve and experiencing something like an electric current, I thought, "Hmm, someone really should explain static electricity to that boy before he throws away his marriage.")



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Date: Oct 7 3:44 PM, 2016
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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

Oh dear oh dear.

For me this is not getting any better.

The whole point of the Trevaunance party in the book (he doesn't feature at all in the series) was for Ross to see that Elizabeth still loved him and Francis was well aware of it; and for Ross to realise how the relationship between Elizabeth and Francis stood. As it is, F&Es relationshipis not as in the book and so the point has been lost. Not sure I'm convinced by Agatha portending doom through her Tarot cards either. She was an observer, and a listener, especially when people thought she couldn't hear.

It is such a shame, series 1 was a really good adaptation, if you forget one or two aberrations. This series is skewing the story and does WG no favours. Would an audience be unable to 'get' the subtleties instanced in the books? We all know things have to be changed, but so far most ofthe changes all seem to be about thecharacters.

I'm really surprised since Andrew Graham is a consultant, but there is no reason to suppose he is an expert on his father's work.

-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Monday 3rd of October 2016 08:51:04 AM


I agree with you Mrs Gimlett, I have not been pleased with the alterations with regards to Elizabeth and Francis.

On another point though, I am enjoying Caroline and Dwight. At first I wasn't sure if I liked this portrayal of Caroline, but now I think it is being handled rather well. There is a vulnerability in both performances, that I am really enjoying and I am looking forward to seeing the progression of their relationship.



-- Edited by MrsMartin on Friday 7th of October 2016 06:43:34 PM

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If you are able to read the first editions of the first 4 books, there is much more in them alluding to Elizabeth's feelings. She doesn't love Ross any more than he really loves her. They had a boy/girl attachment which, because of his absence in America, they each built up into an idealised worship of each other. If Ross had stopped to think seriously, would he ever have imagined her slotting into life at Nampara, doing all the tasks Demelza performed, because they certainly would have been just as poverty stricken.

Elizabeth was put on a pedestal by all men, which is why her characterisation in the TV series is all awry. Elizabeth wouldn't have expected to do any labouring tasks - and indeed WG wrote she expected adoration from men, felt it was her due. Her love was all maternal and particularly to GC.



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faith101 wrote:
Fijane wrote:
LJones41 wrote:


I do not see anywhere in the book that makes it clear that Elizabeth is incapable of of loving men. It is clear with quotes many times in the book that she loves Ross. Your post seems contrary to many actual writings that WG has made in regards to Elizabeth.



-- Edited by faith101 on Tuesday 4th of October 2016 09:52:51 PM


It is interesting how different readers can interpret things in different ways. I suppose, for me, Elizabeth saying she loved Ross, was never evidence of her actual love. I came to my conclusion based on how she acted with each of the men, and didn't see anything I would consider real love. That's a grey area, though, and I can understand if others see something different.



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MrsMartin wrote:
Mrs Gimlett wrote:

I wonder whygratuitous violence was introduced last night - any ideas?


I was finally able to see Episode 5, I just hate it when life gets in the way of my viewing pleasure. Oh well, the way I viewed Ross losing his temper as an effort to show how protective he is of Demelza and her roots. I also think it is foreshadowing for the fight between Ross and George at Trenwith, which I hope will be left in this adaptation.


I'm in the U.S. So I'm three weeks behind. Does Ross in episode 5 know Demelza overheard him talking to Elizabeth in episode 2 and making reference to "a scullery maid"? (That after Elizabeth's mother lamented the poor company of farmhands and kitchen maids) Needless to say, Ross owes her that one. If only you wouldn't get locked up for looking Mrs, C in her one good eye and saying, "Comes the revolution, lady, you're gone."



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Fijane wrote:
LJones41 wrote:

Going back to Elizabeth, this adaptation seems determined to make Elizabeth Demelzas equal in terms of suitability for Ross.

Why is that a problem? Frankly, I find this idea more complex and mature, instead of demonizing one woman for the sake of the other.

I suppose for me it is because the books make it clear that Elizabeth is unable to feel love for either of her husbands or any other man, only her children. Most of the storylines are built on that fact, and trying to introduce her as loving to even one man creates a storyline that doesn't exist. The story unfolds as each of the men realise that they have wasted time trying to produce an impossible response from her. She is not demonised to exalt Demelza, it is just straight acknowledgement that this is the personality she was born with. She has many positives qualities that are clearly shown in the books.

The complexity comes because all three men still want to "win" her, despite her inability to give affection back. Elizabeth definitely is a complex character, because she represents the lack of choice for women at that time, and how a genteelly brought up girl copes with that. Verity is also like that, but she does not struggle as much with duty.



I do not see anywhere in the book that makes it clear that Elizabeth is incapable of of loving men. It is clear with quotes many times in the book that she loves Ross. Your post seems contrary to many actual writings that WG has made in regards to Elizabeth.



-- Edited by faith101 on Tuesday 4th of October 2016 09:52:51 PM

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Mrs Gimlett wrote:

I wonder whygratuitous violence was introduced last night - any ideas?


I was finally able to see Episode 5, I just hate it when life gets in the way of my viewing pleasure. Oh well, the way I viewed Ross losing his temper as an effort to show how protective he is of Demelza and her roots. I also think it is foreshadowing for the fight between Ross and George at Trenwith, which I hope will be left in this adaptation.



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Interesting I think at this juncture to read and compare what most likely appears to have been WG's inspiration for his love triangle, the German writer Hermann Sudermann's original story written in about 1886 called "Die Zweilicht" meaning "The Twilight" that he read in his late teens and "which remained in his mind and would not be banished, eventually the seed coming to life in the story of Ross, Francis and Elizabeth whom they both wished to marry."

Apparently this was also the title of the Duke of Mantua's canzone from the beginning of act 3 of Giuseppe Verdi's opera Rigoletto in 1851, so it's possible that this might have been the reason for Sudermann to have written his story some 35 years later though there's no way of knowing for sure as the two stories are quite different.

"La Donna e Mobile" Italian for roughly a fickle woman....

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"La Donna e Mobile"

It makes me think of a woman whom I met yesterday in the street who looked at me with deep gratitude because I didn't greet her. You might find that strange. I agree, therefore I must explain things to you in more detail as it is psychologically of interest.

A few summers ago I'd spent a few weeks boating on the Rhine, and was on my way home to Berlin. Having deliberately got onto good terms with the guard of the train at Frankfurt I had been able to remain alone in my compartment. Unfortunately not for long.

At the station of Elm, a delightfully located little village in Franconia, the guard regretfully shrugging his shoulders opened the door, and in came a thickly veiled, elegant lady with a voluptuous, still youthful figure. She had a handkerchief screwed up in her hand, which she pressed for a moment against her forehead. She then turned round towards the platform, from where a good number of pieces of hand luggage, a sunshade, a Russian leather vanity case, an embroidered travel pillow, a striped plush blanket and the like were handed up to her.

Then a dark-bearded man entered, looking to be in his mid-thirties, who politely doffed his hat before sitting down next to the woman.

They sat for a while neither of them talking, he holding her hand and staring quietly at it. She did likewise though from time to time her body shook as if she was deeply upset.

She was the first to break the silence. "How much longer do we have ?" she asked. It was a softly veiled voice that was pleasant to listen to.

"35 minutes" he said, looking at his pocket watch.

"Oh my god" she uttered painfully.

"You'll be in Berlin by evening, after it's dark" he said after a pause.

"When will you arrive in Zurich?" she asked.

"Tomorrow morning" he replied, "when there'll be 100 miles between us once more."

She squeezed his hand harder. "But you'll write to me often, won't you?"

He nodded.

"Every other day, as always?" she continued.

"Surely, my dearest", he replied quietly and lovingly. "How could it be otherwise? And you'll be responding immediately, like always. And do write to me about the children, you know how important they are to me."

"You are so nice!" she answered quietly nuzzling her whole body into him then shivering at his touch, and slowly lowering her head sank onto his shoulder in intimate, unconscious devotion.

Once more they sat there quietly each occupied with their inner thoughts.

They took no notice of me as an on-looker at all. Why should they? When two souls obviously joined in such fashion are soon about to separate there can be no-one else in the world.

Besides, I thought it appeared as if I really was engrossed in reading my book which according to the bookshop owner in Frankfurt was the latest and finest publication by "Guy de Maupassant", so they need have no fear for any public show of sympathy I might have felt for their situation.

She removed her veil. A full, but pale face with interesting crinkles of tiredness came to light. The eyes, which seemed to be beautiful, were red from crying.

Poor woman !

They started talking again. It was an intimate conversation one in which I was unfortunately only able to catch a few words, yet both their hearts were so full of each other that love knew no bounds.

The train whistled as the grotesque towers of the old town of Fulda came into view.

Immediately she started weeping loudly and as the train slowed she suddenly wrapped her shaking arms around his neck crying out in terrible anguish.

He did his best to comfort her but strong as he was he could not hide his tears either. Then just in time he gently prised her away from him as the guard began to close the doors.

"Farewell" he said and lips trembling quickly jumped down onto the platform closing the door with a bang just as the train started to move.

She didn't try to look for him. It was as if she had no power left and sitting in the corner began to cry piteously. As I thought it impolite to disturb her I continued reading though the words made little or no sense whatsoever.

When the train stopped half an hour later in Bebra, I heard her voice: "Sir, I'm sorry, I'm not feeling well. May I ask you to bring me a glass of water?"

That is how we met and within an hour or so I had managed to take her mind off her painful thoughts sufficiently enough to listen to me with a great deal of sympathy and even smiling from time to time. And there was more to come !

She told me that she'd met him in Hamburg and had accompanied her as far as Fulda but was now returning to Zurich, adding that he had to remain in Switzerland because of his many business affairs whilst she had to stay in Berlin.

"Do you also live in Berlin?" she asked, a worried expression suddenly appearing. When I confirmed I did, she winced. From then on she became quieter and after a while said that she was tired and needed to get a little sleep.

And she really did sleep too with short interruptions for a good 5 hours, lying there, her small feet against a chair and her head in her pillow. Her abundant bosom rising and falling with her breathing though from time to time a nervous twitch would cross her face.

In Halle two new passengers entered which didn't interrupt her as she kept on sleeping. She only awoke fully just before the end of the journey.

"Ah, yes we're nearly there" she said, looking out of the window.

The rest seemed to have done her some good as her cheeks were rosier with a little smile appearing on her face.

With a burst of energy she started collecting her luggage and the closer we came to the city, the more expectant her expressions became, seeming as though she couldn't wait for the moment when we would reach the station, looking out of the window all the time, and getting up and sitting down again.

Finally we arrived.

"Thank god" she said cheerfully and stretched a little, as one sometimes does when a secret fear combined with a happy expectation occurs in one's heart simultaneously.

"May I help you find a cab?" I asked.

"Thank you very much" she said with a puzzled smile "but my husband is waiting for me".

Suddenly she stared at me horror stricken, her cheeks aflame and her face reddening in shame, and violently tried to snatch at the air as if wanting to retrieve and take back her words.

"Oh my god !" she said striking her forehead, and immediately started sobbing loudly.

"My dear Madam" I whispered, but she didn't hear me.

Then the doors were suddenly opened.

"Rosa, Rosa" many voices shouted "there you are !"

In front of the train stood many ladies, old ones and young ones, also a gentleman holding two children's hands.

And still sobbing she fell into his arms....

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Click on link, then scroll to the very bottom to read the original article in 1977 in Woman magazine.

http://poldark.activeboard.com/t42017573/woman-magazine-wg-exclusive-dec-1977/



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Date: Oct 4 6:09 AM, 2016
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LJones41 wrote:

Going back to Elizabeth, this adaptation seems determined to make Elizabeth Demelzas equal in terms of suitability for Ross.

Why is that a problem? Frankly, I find this idea more complex and mature, instead of demonizing one woman for the sake of the other.



I suppose for me it is because the books make it clear that Elizabeth is unable to feel love for either of her husbands or any other man, only her children. Most of the storylines are built on that fact, and trying to introduce her as loving to even one man creates a storyline that doesn't exist. The story unfolds as each of the men realise that they have wasted time trying to produce an impossible response from her. She is not demonised to exalt Demelza, it is just straight acknowledgement that this is the personality she was born with. She has many positives qualities that are clearly shown in the books.

The complexity comes because all three men still want to "win" her, despite her inability to give affection back. Elizabeth definitely is a complex character, because she represents the lack of choice for women at that time, and how a genteelly brought up girl copes with that. Verity is also like that, but she does not struggle as much with duty.



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Date: Oct 3 10:30 PM, 2016
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Joanna poldark wrote:
LJones41 wrote:

Going back to Elizabeth, this adaptation seems determined to make Elizabeth Demelzas equal in terms of suitability for Ross.

Why is that a problem? Frankly, I find this idea more complex and mature, instead of demonizing one woman for the sake of the other.

I'm afraid, I only compare to the books. I don't think Winston Graham demonised anyone but I do think he wrote the character of Demelza to be much more suited to Ross than Elizabeth was. if you are referring to the 1975 adaptation, i agree that Elizabeth was made far too villainous and as such would never have succeeded in attracting Ross in the first place.



-- Edited by LJones41 on Monday 3rd of October 2016 07:15:29 PM


I don't mind the fact that they tried to make Elizabeth a warmer character, at least to Ross, unfortunately by doing this her relationships with all the other characters have altered and it is not the story Winston Graham wrote.




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Date: Oct 3 7:13 PM, 2016
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Going back to Elizabeth, this adaptation seems determined to make Elizabeth Demelzas equal in terms of suitability for Ross.

Why is that a problem? Frankly, I find this idea more complex and mature, instead of demonizing one woman for the sake of the other.

I believe that in this instance, Demelza is in character according to the book's timeline. I do not care much for George's boxing lessons or the fight. I am all for creativity for here and there, but DH needs to trust the source material...

It's a pity that the 1970s producers couldn't do the same, as well. Especially in certain scenes.



-- Edited by LJones41 on Monday 3rd of October 2016 07:15:29 PM

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Date: Oct 3 4:18 PM, 2016
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I had insufficient time this morning to add two further things.

Firstly, I was longing for that little conversation between Ross and Demelza when he asks if she is nervous going into company and she replies that she needs the confidence of knowing he loves her. That is such a lovely little scene.

Secondly, with one punch, last night Ross was turned from a 'hero' into a thug. There is no way Ross would have laid into someone without first making sure of the facts, and even then he really didn't go around thumping men for the hell of it. Especially not his employees.

I wonder whygratuitous violence was introduced last night - any ideas?



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Date: Oct 3 2:39 PM, 2016
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Joanna poldark wrote:

I agree about the party. The character of Elizabeth is changed beyond recognition. So much warmth and love in her , enough for two men now when in the book, she has barely enough for one.

However I thought the Dwight Caroline scenes were good tho I did yearn for dwights confession of confused love to be a bit more dramatically delivered. It was a bit flat.

I thought the death of Francis was emotional and poignant though at one point I thought the lovely conversation between him and Demelza was going to be omitted.

Going back to Elizabeth, this adaptation seems determined to make Elizabeth Demelzas equal in terms of suitability for Ross. This Elizabeth is warm, caring, adept at working in the fields and concerning herself with the welfare of their tenants and workers. I didn't care for the 1975 version of Elizabeth , far too villainous , but this version is going too far the other way.

My last thought is that this Demelza is too confident and self assured.

But Cornwall looked beautiful and I longed to go back again.


Elizabeth was never completely cold and her actions other than some tweaking I did not care for lines up with the book. Elizabeth was reserved and at times fickle, and when Ross did not come back for her she was vengeful...but not cold



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Date: Oct 3 2:36 PM, 2016
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I believe that in this instance, Demelza is in character according to the book's timeline. I do not care much for George's boxing lessons or the fight. I am all for creativity for here and there, but DH needs to trust the source material...



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Date: Oct 3 2:20 PM, 2016
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Joanna Poldark wrote

Hi Stella. I am comparing the Demelza of the book to the to series. By this point in the book, she doesent have the confidence to challenge Ross at all. She intuitively knows something has cropped up for him but not what it is (Elizabeth's confession). This Demelza is comfortable asking him will he keep his eyes only on her at the dinner party, she reassures Dwight about marrying out of ones social class when that was something she was still struggling with and she chats happily with Elizabeth about their frocks when she felt quite inferior to Elizabeth at that time. This is obviously only my opinion.

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I am sorry I hadn't realised you were comparing Demelza in the production with book Demelza. I agree with you. However I think Demelza in the series is not assertive, more pleading. She is desperate. I have a picture of her facial expression right at the end of episode 5 which I think will stay with me for a long time. She looks so sad and so desperate and I think this part was portrayed very well. As you say, in the book s she did not say as much to Ross about her concerns.

Stella



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Date: Oct 3 12:35 PM, 2016
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Joanna poldark wrote:

My last thought is that this Demelza is too confident and self assured.


I cannot agree with you Joanna on this point. Demelza is quite desperate at this stage in the series as is shown in her conversation with Francis. She fears that Ross loves Elizabeth better. Francis tells her that her weakness is that she underestimates herself. She is terrified that Ross will go to prison or even to the gallows. I would be interested to hear why you think Demelza is too confident.

Stella



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Monday 3rd of October 2016 12:36:21 PM

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Date: Oct 3 8:46 AM, 2016
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Oh dear oh dear.

For me this is not getting any better.

The whole point of the Trevaunance party in the book (he doesn't feature at all in the series) was for Ross to see that Elizabeth still loved him and Francis was well aware of it; and for Ross to realise how the relationship between Elizabeth and Francis stood. As it is, F&Es relationshipis not as in the book and so the point has been lost. Not sure I'm convinced by Agatha portending doom through her Tarot cards either. She was an observer, and a listener, especially when people thought she couldn't hear.

It is such a shame, series 1 was a really good adaptation, if you forget one or two aberrations. This series is skewing the story and does WG no favours. Would an audience be unable to 'get' the subtleties instanced in the books? We all know things have to be changed, but so far most ofthe changes all seem to be about thecharacters.

I'm really surprised since Andrew Graham is a consultant, but there is no reason to suppose he is an expert on his father's work.



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Monday 3rd of October 2016 08:51:04 AM

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