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Post Info TOPIC: Series 2 Episode 3


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Date: Oct 16 2:15 PM, 2016
RE: Series 2 Episode 3
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    Fijane wrote

 

 I thought the Jack Farthing one is the new edition of Warleggan. I have seen images of both the covers in my posts below, both for Jeremy.


 You are right about them being new editions. They are 2016 editions although I imagine the only change is the covers.

Stella



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Date: Oct 15 8:10 AM, 2016
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Stella Poldark wrote:
Fijane wrote:

With a bit more investigation, I've found that Amazon seems to imply that the cover showing the man has been withdrawn and replaced by the one below, showing Ross and Demelza. Maybe they have realised their mistake.

Expensive mistake to make.



-- Edited by Fijane on Thursday 13th of October 2016 12:22:41 AM


 You may be right but Pan Macmillan have recently brought out two new covers. One is the Jeremy one you have posted and the other is a picture of Jack Farthing dressed as George Warleggan. It coincided with the second series of the Poldark television production. Perhaps someone else can throw some light on this.

Stella

 

 

 



 I thought the Jack Farthing one is the new edition of Warleggan. I have seen images of both the covers in my posts below, both for Jeremy.



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Date: Oct 13 3:23 PM, 2016
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Fijane wrote:

With a bit more investigation, I've found that Amazon seems to imply that the cover showing the man has been withdrawn and replaced by the one below, showing Ross and Demelza. Maybe they have realised their mistake.

Expensive mistake to make.



-- Edited by Fijane on Thursday 13th of October 2016 12:22:41 AM


 You may be right but Pan Macmillan have recently brought out two new covers. One is the Jeremy one you have posted and the other is a picture of Jack Farthing dressed as George Warleggan. It coincided with the second series of the Poldark television production. Perhaps someone else can throw some light on this.

Stella

 

 

 



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Date: Oct 13 12:21 AM, 2016
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With a bit more investigation, I've found that Amazon seems to imply that the cover showing the man has been withdrawn and replaced by the one below, showing Ross and Demelza. Maybe they have realised their mistake.

Expensive mistake to make.



-- Edited by Fijane on Thursday 13th of October 2016 12:22:41 AM

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Date: Oct 13 12:03 AM, 2016
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Stella Poldark wrote:
Fijane wrote:

 

As an aside, I asked this on another thread, but I think this one is more active: Can anyone tell me who is the character portrayed on the new tie-in book of "Jeremy Poldark". We haven't seen this person yet, and I can't imagine who it is meant to be. Anyone I can think of (eg Drake) comes much later and does not seem to be important enough to be a cover picture. Here's the cover:


I have always assumed that the picture was of an adult Jeremy.

Stella

 



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Tuesday 11th of October 2016 01:29:59 PM



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Tuesday 11th of October 2016 01:30:32 PM


 I wondered that, Stella, but it seems illogical to me. Someone new to reading the books would not know that the series follows Jeremy to adulthood, and after reading this edition would still be confused about who that person is, considering Jeremy only appears towards the end.

You might be right, but if it is, I think the publishers have made a mistake. It is probably a mistake anyway, to put a face on the cover that is not readily identifiable.



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Date: Oct 11 1:29 PM, 2016
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Fijane wrote:

 

As an aside, I asked this on another thread, but I think this one is more active: Can anyone tell me who is the character portrayed on the new tie-in book of "Jeremy Poldark". We haven't seen this person yet, and I can't imagine who it is meant to be. Anyone I can think of (eg Drake) comes much later and does not seem to be important enough to be a cover picture. Here's the cover:


I have always assumed that the picture was of an adult Jeremy.

Stella



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Tuesday 11th of October 2016 01:29:59 PM



-- Edited by Stella Poldark on Tuesday 11th of October 2016 01:30:32 PM

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Date: Oct 11 7:08 AM, 2016
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Episode 3 aired here on Sunday night, and overall I was better pleased with it than Episode 2 (the trial). Looking past the travesty of Elizabeth interfering everywhere, changing her personality and mucking up the storyline, I enjoyed most of the rest.

I thought the exchanges between Ross and Demelza were very good, although condensed over a much shorter period of time. I didn't mind George boxing, thinking it might be a private thing that he did.

The only things that jarred (apart from Elizabeth) - actually they all involved E anyway - were:

1. The implication that it was E who desired and engineered the reconciliation. She was the last person who wanted it really.

2. The business in the harvest field and then the "harvest dinner": the family would not have been in the field being so happy, R & D did not come there to meet them. And the people from the village would not have been at Trenwith, and certainly not dancing country dances in the hall.

3. Making Francis almost manically happy. Yes, he was easier in himself after Bodmin, and resigned to a quiet country life, but this was too much.

4. The scene between R & E after the dinner, which D overheard. It was mostly true to the books in terms of the dialogue, however the tone was all wrong. It implied that R was trying to reignite the infatuation, whereas really, he should have been speaking wistfully, reflecting regretfully on events that were so far in the past to be irrelevant. To imply that they almost kiss was ludicrous.

Looking forward to next week. As long as I can ignore Elizabeth, I am still totally in love with the series.

As an aside, I asked this on another thread, but I think this one is more active: Can anyone tell me who is the character portrayed on the new tie-in book of "Jeremy Poldark". We haven't seen this person yet, and I can't imagine who it is meant to be. Anyone I can think of (eg Drake) comes much later and does not seem to be important enough to be a cover picture. Here's the cover:



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Date: Sep 29 9:34 AM, 2016
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Oh dear, LJones41, get hold of the books immediately - you are in for a treat if your memory is hazy!  In the first edition books are many more references to Francis and his visits to George's card parties where he meets Margaret, the woman who once took Ross back to her hovel.

Yes, Francis' entertainment was curtailed once their income was so precarious, but he and Elizabeth were still estranged.  He resented having to be at home, doing agricultural work - he expected to be a gentleman of leisure all his days.  That was a major difference between him and Ross, who would buckle down and do whatever was required to keep the wolf from the door.

 



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Date: Sep 29 12:20 AM, 2016
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LJones41 wrote:

But surely, there would have been other times when he tried to be intimate with her, before he went off the rails.

I don't recall that happening.  I'm not sure about the novels.  My memories of them are pretty slim and I don't have a copy of any of them.  But both the 1975 and 2015 series hinted that Francis started sleeping with Margaret not long after Elizabeth's rebuff, following Geoffrey Charles' birth.  In fact, the 1975 Francis slept with other women - even after promising Elizabeth that he would stop being unfaithful.  Both series also hinted that Elizabeth tried to reconcile or make her peace with Francis, but he rejected her.

 

My memories are a little hazy as well (time for a re-read) but my feeling is that both series have portrayed Francis' philandering more bluntly than it is suggested in the books. I don't remember any time when his affairs are anything more than obliquely referred to, and because of that, we don't really know how extensive it they were. It could have been serial offences happening continously, or (as I like to believe) just occasionally with one woman who gave him consolation.
Elizabeth certainly rebuffed him many times, and made it clear that Geoffrey Charles was the priority and that she had no real need of Francis after GC was born. I do remember that after the trial, it is implied that Francis did not stray at all, because he no longer had money so the woman had thrown him over. He stayed quietly at home, and there was almost no "nightlife" for either of them because of their reduced circumstances. I can't remember if there is any indication of resumption of a sexual relationship at this time, or if by now Francis had just given up.



-- Edited by Fijane on Thursday 29th of September 2016 12:21:49 AM



-- Edited by Fijane on Thursday 29th of September 2016 12:22:12 AM



-- Edited by Fijane on Thursday 29th of September 2016 12:22:37 AM

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Date: Sep 28 10:21 PM, 2016
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But surely, there would have been other times when he tried to be intimate with her, before he went off the rails.

 

I don't recall that happening.  I'm not sure about the novels.  My memories of them are pretty slim and I don't have a copy of any of them.  But both the 1975 and 2015 series hinted that Francis started sleeping with Margaret not long after Elizabeth's rebuff, following Geoffrey Charles' birth.  In fact, the 1975 Francis slept with other women - even after promising Elizabeth that he would stop being unfaithful.  Both series also hinted that Elizabeth tried to reconcile or make her peace with Francis, but he rejected her.

 



-- Edited by LJones41 on Wednesday 28th of September 2016 10:23:00 PM



-- Edited by LJones41 on Wednesday 28th of September 2016 10:24:05 PM

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LJones41

I understand from Stella that series 3 will cover one and a half books.  If the series is continued further, it will presumably mean another 1.5 books to get to the end of The Angry Tide. Then things will get interesting as gap of 10 years occurs before the beginning of Stranger From the Sea. 

 

Just a couple of things I picked up from the post below.  Firstly, Ross and Elizabeth never were engaged.  They were 'serious' in their own minds before he went away, but nothing had been formalised - hence Joshua's uneasy conscience on his death-bed.

Secondly, I agree Francis reacted to Elizabeth's rebuff (after GC was born) by misinterpreting it.  But surely, there would have been other times when he tried to be intimate with her, before he went off the rails.  I cannot believe he would have been put off forever by that one, short scene.



-- Edited by Mrs Gimlett on Wednesday 28th of September 2016 08:19:49 PM

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I tend to view Elizabeth a little differently than some. I have never believed that Elizabeth loved anyone except Geoffrey Charles, and to a slightly lesser extent Valentine. To me, she seemed incapable of a genuine relationship with any man, and that most of the dilemmas that occur throughout the story are because she vacillates between equally unappealing (to her) options. Her pre-war flirtation with Ross was a teenage diversion, she agreed to marry Francis under pressure from her mother, she went back to playing Ross because she needed the adoration that Francis wasn't giving. Her most successful relationship was with George, because he gave her the adoration she craved, only asking loyalty in return, which she could give without loving him.

I haven't seen this episode yet, but it does sound like there is a serious deviation by trying to make Elizabeth into a genuine love interest. She really only ever was a prize to be won, and both Ross and Francis found that the winning was hollow victory. They both bought a woman who lived life behind a glass shield, incapable of participating in a mutually-fulfilling relationship.

And so, we rejoice that Ross escapes relatively unscathed, we pity Francis who bears the brunt of a poor deal, and we are satisfied that George achieves the relationship he truly deserves.



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Date: Sep 27 7:31 AM, 2016
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LJones41 wrote:

 

 

The idea that Debbie Horsfield would stick closely to the novels is a joke.  It's as much of a joke as the belief that the 1975-77 series stuck closely to the novels.  That particular series made a lot of unnecessary changes as well.

 


I'm more forgiving this time about changing characters, because it is Elizabeth whom I don't like anyway. I couldn't cope with the 1975 series because it was Demelza who was altered drastically.

The new series will get a lot of latitude from me, because Ross, Demelza, Verity are almost perfectly done.



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For me the pace is much too fast although I think episode 3 improved somewhat in this respect. There is something about this series that I cannot put my finger on. All the characters seem to have changed as if a fairy has waved a wand. But perhaps I am underestimating the effect on the main characters of Ross's trial and financial ruin Francis's suicide attempt and his redemption.

Stella




This series is following the same pacing as the 1975 series. The latter adapted the first four novels within 16 episodes - four episodes for each novel. I gather we are watching the adaptation of the third novel, "Jeremy Poldark". The difference is that unlike the 1975 series, which covered the adaptation of the fourth novel, "Warleggan", in four episodes; this series will cover the same novel within six episodes. And from what I have seen of the 1975 series so far - Episodes One to Eight - there seemed to be a great deal of changes.

As for the 1977 series, it covered three novels - "Black Moon", "The Four Swans" and "The Angry Tide" in 13 episodes. I am curious about how many novels will be adapted for Season 3 of this series.

 

For someone that has claimed to be sticking closely to the books, Debbie Horsfield has so drastically altered a central character (Elizabeth) that she is now changing the story in order to accommodate  this alteration. I'm sorry but this just doesn't feel like Winston Graham's story any longer.

 

The idea that Debbie Horsfield would stick closely to the novels is a joke.  It's as much of a joke as the belief that the 1975-77 series stuck closely to the novels.  That particular series made a lot of unnecessary changes as well.



-- Edited by LJones41 on Monday 26th of September 2016 08:00:06 PM



-- Edited by LJones41 on Monday 26th of September 2016 08:02:06 PM

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Welcome to the Forum Bella lots to discuss these days so hope you enjoy it all....smile



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Welcome Bella,

I hope you will enjoy partaking in our discussions.  You are clearly enjoying the new TV series.  As you have probably scanned through several threads here you'll notice that mostly we discuss the books, which, as a literary society, interest us most.  That is why some of us get a little heated about the adhesion to the original story in the new series.

 



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Firstly as a new member and this being my first post, Hello to everyone.

I have really enjoyed the first 3 episodes and think Debbie Horsefield has done a great job, I realize there are lots of changes but I believe as the series unfolds everything will come together.  The books are of course excellent, but I did always find that I wanted to know more about Elizabeths feelings, and I think the introduction of Elizabeth into new scenes is Debbies way of trying to get Elizabeths personality across to the viewer.

But I do think that she is being portrayed in a positive light at the moment, which may need to change if the events on the 19th May are to be consensual, (I always thought so anyway, in the end) which I think will start to play out in Episode four which I think covers Sir John Trevaunances Supper Party, where Elizabeth admits to Ross that she made a mistake and the trouble really starts.  

Of course Francis is still alive at this point and its when Elizabeth becomes a widow that she really starts to think about Ross and Ross spends more time with her alone as he helps her with financial issues and the running of Trenwith.

I think the performances of all the main characters especially Aiden and Eleanor in the court room scenes have been brilliant and cant wait until Sunday for the next instalment, so glad I can re watch on Sky Plus and BBC IPlayer, I know what will be on my Christmas List!!!! (DVD oh and the calendar)



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Dark Mare wrote:
 

Wait for Caroline's disengagement party. That's when Elizabeth makes her deliberate play for Ross -- or at least what Ross interprets as a play. If that scene is omitted or played as a straightforward apology from Elizabeth with none of the flirtation, then Debbie Horsfield could have trouble with May 9th. Unless she intends to paint Ross as a total villain and Elizabeth as a victim, that is. 

 

 


 In the promo for the new season of Poldark, the scene at Caroline's disengagement party does not appear to be an apology, more like a confession that Elizabeth love both Francis and Ross. What I am not sure about is how they are going display the aftermath of Francis' death. If Elizabeth is portrayed as the grieving widow, that love her husband, it will change the circumstances that lead up to May 9th and the whole atmosphere surrounding  it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGsyR6k_C_w



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MrsMartin wrote:

               Hmm. Not so much. The whole Elizabeth thing is just not ringing true to past events      or future ones. It appears that she and Francis are now happy or at least content in their marriage and that she is not  making a play for Ross at all. That is how I viewed it anyway.


Actually, I'm glad to hear it. I thought the dress was an over-the-top touch for someone who was supposed to be as well-mannered as Elizabeth. There's something vicious about a woman who would decide to wear a dress guaranteed to remind a guest of the child she recently buried because the dress is so flattering and certain to draw lots of admiring glances from the dead child's grieving father. 

Wait for Caroline's disengagement party. That's when Elizabeth makes her deliberate play for Ross -- or at least what Ross interprets as a play. If that scene is omitted or played as a straightforward apology from Elizabeth with none of the flirtation, then Debbie Horsfield could have trouble with May 9th. Unless she intends to paint Ross as a total villain and Elizabeth as a victim, that is. 

 

 



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Date: Sep 21 3:09 AM, 2016
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Stella Poldark wrote:

For me the pace is much too fast although I think episode 3 improved somewhat in this respect. There is something about this series that I cannot put my finger on. All the characters seem to have changed as if a fairy has waved a wand. But perhaps I am underestimating the effect on the main characters of Ross's trial and financial ruin Francis's suicide attempt and his redemption.

Stella


 I think you are spot on Stella. Ross and Demelza go from being happily relieved couple in episode 2 to exchanging nasty taunts at each other in episode 3. What happened? Francis goes from the the brink of suicide in episode 2 to be a happy father and husband, it appears in episode 3. And all of a sudden Elizabeth seems to actually care for Francis. What?

For someone that has claimed to be sticking closely to the books, Debbie Horsfield has so drastically altered a central character (Elizabeth) that she is now changing the story in order to accommodate  this alteration. I'm sorry but this just doesn't feel like Winston Graham's story any longer.

 



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I cannot understand why Elizabeth is being portrayed like she is either.  She keeps meeting Demelza for a start, not something either would have been happy doing.  Elizabeth needs to be more aloof, staying at home with Geoffrey Charles and idly wondering about Ross.  As it is, she is everywhere she never went in the books.  Even trips to Truro were rare.  It has been completely forgotten Truro is 11 miles from Nampara and it needed either a horse or a special reason to go there.  Elizabeth wanders around in 'Truro' as though she has just 'popped up to the local shops'!.

As you say, Stella, they have certainly changed her character.  Francis too, was not that affable until Ross suggested they go into partnership at Wheal Grace.  He was terribly hung up about his part in Carnmore, which has been conveniently forgotten too.

I do hope episode 4 gets back on track.  It is quite disappointing things have taken a sabbatical from the books.  I seem to recall much hard work and toil with nary a minute for festivities during this period.  Ross was forever at the mine and Demelza stealing off in the boat to supplement their diet with fish.

Cornwall is still looking magnificent and I do like Dr Enys.  It's unfortunate he hasn't had that much to say yet but I feel his time will come!



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Date: Sep 20 7:12 PM, 2016
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I too have some difficulties with series 3. The changes in the order of events is one although I can see why Debbie H has done this in some cases. I agree that the main difference is in the portrayal of Elizabeth. There is no sign of her having any interest in Ross although she likes his flattery. However she is keeping track of the state of the relationship between Ross and Demelza. Elizabeth appears to be closer to Francis than ever before which isn't to be found in the books.

For me the pace is much too fast although I think episode 3 improved somewhat in this respect. There is something about this series that I cannot put my finger on. All the characters seem to have changed as if a fairy has waved a wand. But perhaps I am underestimating the effect on the main characters of Ross's trial and financial ruin Francis's suicide attempt and his redemption.

Stella



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Dark Mare wrote:

 Mrs. Martin -- Here in the States, we won't see Episode 1 until Sunday so all these posts are giving me great hints of things to watch for.

Please tell me that they at least have Elizabeth wearing the beautiful frock she wore to Julia's christening party when she welcomes Ross and Demelza to Trenwith so Demelza knows Elizabeth is out to win back Ross' devotion by making the most of the distance that Julia's death has created between Ross and his wife. Elizabeth also played a role in Julia's death, but she, unlike Demelza, is forgiven, of course, because she's so desirable. 

 


 Hmm. Not so much. The whole Elizabeth thing is just not ringing true to past events or future ones. It appears that she and Francis are now happy or at least content in their marriage and that she is not making a play for Ross at all. That is how I viewed it anyway.



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MrsMartin wrote:

However, my biggest problem with this episode, in fact the whole adaptation, is Elizabeth. Her guilt over the loss of Julia, her concern for Demelza, her kindness to Francis and the general warmth she seems to be exuding. Not the Elizabeth of the books at all!  Quite frankly if the the manipulative side of Elizabeth is not revealed soon, Ross is going to look like even a bigger ass than he does right now.

Just a few thoughts

Mrs. Martin

 


 Mrs. Martin -- Here in the States, we won't see Episode 1 until Sunday so all these posts are giving me great hints of things to watch for.

Please tell me that they at least have Elizabeth wearing the beautiful frock she wore to Julia's christening party when she welcomes Ross and Demelza to Trenwith so Demelza knows Elizabeth is out to win back Ross' devotion by making the most of the distance that Julia's death has created between Ross and his wife. Elizabeth also played a role in Julia's death, but she, unlike Demelza, is forgiven, of course, because she's so desirable. 

 



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There are a few problems that I have with episode 3. 

I was disappointed with the whole Jud rising from the dead scene,  I wanted to find it funny but did not. Then again I haven't liked the way Jud has been portrayed in this series. To me, Jud is a lazy cantankerous drunkard that is a bit of a bumbler but basically harmless. In this production he is being portrayed as a lazy mean spirited drunk that is conniving instead of just stupid.

The abbreviated timeline or the inadequate representation of the passage of time, is a problem. Everything appears to be happening within a few days or weeks, not over months. The deteriorating of Ross and Demelza's relationships, the misunderstandings, the rift that develops between them, appears to happen almost overnight. But this stems from the lack of emphasis that was given to Ross' declaration of not wishing to have more children and Demelza's lack of reaction to that declaration, at the end of the previous episode.

However, my biggest problem with this episode, in fact the whole adaptation, is Elizabeth. Her guilt over the loss of Julia, her concern for Demelza, her kindness to Francis and the general warmth she seems to be exuding. Not the Elizabeth of the books at all!  Quite frankly if the the manipulative side of Elizabeth is not revealed soon, Ross is going to look like even a bigger ass than he does right now.

Just a few thoughts

Mrs. Martin

 



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Date: Sep 20 10:02 AM, 2016
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Well everyone, what thoughts have you on last Sunday?

There were certainly events occurring which I cannot recall from Jeremy Poldark.  It seems Debbie's imagination has taken flight...



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