Old off topic "Jeremy a complex young man" now merged into this original "Jeremy Poldark" thread....
"Perfection is a full stop .... Ever the climbing but never the attaining Of the mountain top." W.G.
Date: Mar 7 1:50 AM, 2017
Mrs Gimlett wrote:
Excellent post, Hollyhock - Jeremy was a secretive man, but was it because he had so many knocks and it was a way of hiding his hurts? His was such a different character from Ross, who, although he too received bitter disappointments at an early age, was able to carry on through sheer force of will. Jeremy on the other hand, was of an artistic temperament and hadn't the fund of grit his father possessed.
I don't think that's entirely fair to Jeremy. All he really hid was his work with steam engines, and he did that because he didn't have the heart to defy his father openly. He knew Ross would never change his mind about steam power until he was forced to because his opposition was based on fear for Jeremy's safety. (Demelza was kept in the dark only because Jeremy knew she would feel she had to tell Ross.) The thing that would force Ross to change his mind was a demonstrated extensive knowledge of the field and the good opinion of the professionals in it, and Jeremy spent years assembling that. He couldn't prove working with steam was 100% safe because it wasn't, but he could prove he understood and respected the dangers and would always take them into account.
There is one thing we have to remember about Jeremy: He was a replacement child, and even before Jeremy was born, Ross was sure he could never endure burying another child. I suspect Jeremy recognized that his seemingly fearless father was fearful where he was concerned because of Julia. I'm not saying Ross was an overprotective parent, but he did overreact on the subject of steam engines. Jeremy was too kind and loved his father too much to go against his wishes openly, but he knew steam power was the future, as well as his passion, and he didn't want miss out on its opportunities. (I see this as analogous to Caroline's decision to elope to Bath rather than to marry Dwight in Cornwall and live defiantly under her uncle's nose. It was Uncle Ray, even more than her inheritance, that she didn't want to lose forever.)
I don't see him being secretive with his parents on that much else. He was amazingly open with them about Cuby, especially in the early days. On Wheal Leisure, he just got his ducks in a row -- brought the Trenegloses onboard because the mine was mostly on their land, lined up a straw buyer (also the Trenegloses) because he knew George would never sell to a Poldark, etc. -- before he took the idea to his father so he'd have answers to any questions Ross might raise. As for the stage coach affair, he couldn't confess his involvement to his parents; it would break their hearts, plus wasn't failure to report a crime of which you have knowledge still considered a crime at that time? (I do wonder whether he expected -- maybe even wanted -- Geoffrey Charles, the one person he did tell, to tell his parents.)
Date: Mar 5 9:15 PM, 2017
I have always thought it odd that the children seemed to share R&Ds bedroom for such a long time, before moving to a room of their own.
Me too Mrs Gimlett! Perhaps we need a topic for oddities in the saga because there are others.
Date: Mar 5 8:00 PM, 2017
This is probably going to get moved to the Jeremy thread, but I'll reply here.
The sons of strong fathers often struggle to find their own identity, feel overpowered. While the events swirling around his early childhood may have had some impact, I think less so because he had the security of Demelza as a loving mother. However, as he grew up Ross was away a lot of the time, but was an important and well-respected personage locally - those two competing factors would have made it difficult for a young lad to feel comfortable around him. Then Ross had "forbidden" him to have anything to do with steam engines - being Ross, it probably came across stronger than he had intended, and I doubt he would have explained that this prohibition stemmed from fear that his son may get injured. The result, as anyone who ever had anything to do with teenagers will know, was that Jeremy became secretive about it, not telling his mother in case she told his father.
What is odd is his involvement with the stagecoach robbery - which seems to have been his plan, although Steven and Paul undoubtedly leapt on it, and made it difficult for him to back out. But at this time he was 22, a little old for a teenage prank, and his disappointment over doesn't seem sufficient reason for him to do something seriously criminal.
Date: Mar 5 7:44 PM, 2017
Mrs G - I agree with all but your first paragraph. I think Ross was a formidable role model and different children react in different ways to their parents. However I subscribe to the view that the experiences in the first 5 years are often deciding factors in determining one's self-confidence, a quality that Jeremy lacked somewhat.
Honorary Life Member. Forum Moderator
Date: Mar 5 7:35 PM, 2017
Sorry, I don't buy your assessment. Jeremy was barely 2 years old when 9th May happened. Yes, he probably picked up on the atmosphere, but he wouldn't have known anything else about it. Don't forget, children, even the Poldark ones, were taken care of by more than just their mother and father. Demelza herself would have made sure he was protected from as much as possible. With Ross rising early, as he invariably did, Jeremy may not have fully realised that he no longer frequented the bedroom where he and Demelza slept. Also, of course, in the books, they did behave in a much more civilised fashion on a daily basis, rather than the farce of bitterness descended to on the screen.
However, that aside, I don't think that is where Jeremy's secrecy stems from. Perhaps Demelza hit the nail on the head when she was thinking how hard it was for Jeremy with a father who had such a strength of character and who was successful and on the whole a good role model. Jeremy may have felt intimidated by him, because, apart from his artistic temperament, he had found an interest he knew would be disapproved of by Ross.
Like many young men, he was going through an aimless stage, and didn't quite know how he was going to make his mark on the world, when he met Cuby and faced rejection from her family, and seemingly from Cuby herself. It's enough to make anyone falter - perhaps not enough to lead them down the route he took, but nevertheless....
Date: Mar 5 6:10 PM, 2017
Apologies for going off topic but I think Jeremy went through a lot of anxiety when he was very young as a result of what happened on 9th May. He couldn't have failed to realise something was seriously wrong between his parents and at such a young age a child cannot verbalise their anxieties so they are left only with their imagination. Young children often blame themselves for such troubles and are affected by them throughout their lives. This may explain adult Jeremy to some extent.
Date: Mar 5 6:02 PM, 2017
Thank you Mrs Gimlett
Jeremy was a mystery. At the risk of going off-topic, I think it might have been because the traits he inherited from both parents were unreconciled.
Date: Mar 4 7:14 PM, 2017
Date: Mar 4 5:07 PM, 2017
Hollyhock - Thank you for your post. I agree about Jeremy's secrecy which I had forgotten and I have also forgotten why Jeremy had been secretive, so I shall go back to that. I know that Ross was very proud of Jeremy's success with the engine eventually.
Date: Mar 4 4:39 PM, 2017
I also don't think that Ross would ever consider Jeremy a threat. I believe that the later misunderstanding between Jeremy and Ross was as much Jeremy's fault as Ross'. If I recall correctly, it stemmed from Jeremy's wanting to keep his engineering interests a secret. Strangely, he concocted a story about fishing and deceived even Demelza. Jeremy was extremely secretive. Perhaps total, honest communication was a problem for all the family. But Ross invested in Leisure as much to give Jeremy a chance to flex his wings as to keep his small industry going, for the family and the workers.
Out of all Ross and Demelza's children, Jeremy is the one my heart warms to the most. Born in the difficult and tempestuous years of their marriage, he has always been the most vulnerable and fragile natured of their children, very much more like his mother in character given his caring nature, gentleness, deep love of family, animals and the countryside around him, although lacking the ease with which she is able to express her feelings and emotions and her ability to communicate freely, these being traits he shares with his father.
Like his father, he is a deep thinker, intelligent and individualistic, stubborn and passionate, always protective about the people and things that matter to him, never wishing to give up on his ideas, but persevering through many difficulties and willing to take a risk to achieve his dreams. As a child he had enjoyed a happy, playful and loving relationship with his father. Not unusually this became more complicated and strained in his youth, maybe due the fact that Ross was often away, but more likely just to be symptomatic of the fact he felt frustrated by living in the shadow of a such a strong and notorious father, mindful of the fact he had a lot to live up to and in common with the dynamic of countless other fathers and sons over the years, the male ego comes into play ingniting his need to make his own mark in the world. Never once will I believe that Ross would have chosen to favour Valentine over Jeremy or ever knowingly caused Jeremy to feel second best.
Happily, once Ross acknowledges Jeremy's intelligence, vision and knowlegeable plan to build an steam engine for Wheal Leisure, he decides to offer his support and put his trust in his son. From here on in their relationship begins to change, evolving into one of mutual respect and admiration, as Ross begins to show great pride and respect for his son as the gifted and talented young man he has become.
There was ever only one choice for Jeremy who has inherited the passionate and reckless genes of his parents and his decision to rob the stagecoach was fueled by his desperate need to win the love of his life; for him it was all for love, all or nothing. In the end, he had his father's advice, however ethical or not, his suggestion might have been, to thank for the fact that he won Cuby over and realised his dream of marrying the only woman he could ever love. For dear, sweet spirited Jeremy, this prize was worth everything; breaking the law; risking his neck; joining up as a soldier even, which went against the core of his very nature, but he had achieved his dream of happiness at last. For Jeremy, loving Cuby was worth fighting the French for and like every soldier before and after him, it was a risk he had to take.
It was the choice he made for the life he wanted and he died happy.
Tide was nearly full. Mist lay in a grey scarf along the line of the cliffs. .. and they walked home hand in hand through the slanting shadows of the new darkness.
Try to think of Jeremy, pre-robbery.
Your horseless carraige is before it's time, and therefore a failure. Wait 20 years. Not your fault, but it hurts. No other challenge interests you as much.
You have an uneasy relationship with your father, and it will be at least a generation before you take over Nampara. You feel that you do not come up to the mark as his son (or Ross thinks so).
Your "frenemies" are Stephen and Paul. You know that Stephen has betrayed you at least once, and is seeing other girls on the side while courting Clowance. You know you cannot convince Clowance to change her attraction to Stephen. Paul is someone to give you the "shrims".
The girl you want has been honest about marrying for money. The "buyer" is Valentine, for 21,000 pounds. No way to compete. It hurts like hell. At least your family is supportive about this.
You are talented, good looking, funny, and of good character and upbringing. You think carefully about most things. You value your mother's wisdom, and try to model yourself on her philosophy.
Here are your choices:
A) Rob a stagecoach with your frenemies, risking the rope, go into the Army as penance, get the girl for about six months, then die in battle as a glorious sacrifice for your sins (and perhaps a Biblical one for Ross's sins- sacrificing the legitimate son for the ****** son).
B) Go to Oxford, become a lawyer, marry a really nice girl with money (who you don't love, but like and respect) You start your own business, and are successful, probably in London. You know you won't get Nampara until your father dies- and it will probably in tatters. You will have lived a life in London for twenty years plus, made friends, had children. You discover that Valentine has betrayed everyone, and Cuby is now free, after you have been married. You decide to not make your father's mistake, and make your life hell over this. You also find your father favoring his ****** offspring over you. You stay in London, and avoid the Greek tragedy, and enjoy Bella's success, and live for your children.
Which choice makes better copy?
Which choice better reflects "real life"? What would Jeremy do, if he were not a doomed sacrifice, and had free will?